muddys-blues Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Hi, I am modelling one these Gloucester 128 parcels units, it will be sprayed up into the 2 tone blue livery with red stripe between the blue coats. Does anybody know the name or colour code for the lower blue colour that is darker than the upper rail blue panels, I hope that I have not tread on somebody's toes with copyright. http://flickriver.com/photos/21611052@N02/3621851022/ Thanks in advance Craig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Interesting that, I can find a reference to the black, grey, blue and red, but no other colour Sadly this is not a livery I ever saw in Scotland, so cannot confirm if the blue is the same shade / colour and the photo suggests there are two shades of blue (such as BR Blue and either BR Roof Blue or a what became NSE Dark Blue) I always assumed the DMUs had carried blue/grey and were then modified, resulting in the upper blue being lighter I would suggest you compare BR Roof Blue, as this was applied as standard to DMU along with blue/grey, which may be why it is not mentioned Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I'd like to suggest that the lower blue was rail blue, not the upper section. Just looking at the photos and comparing them to the plain blue ones a bit further along. The lighter blue - not sure what it could be? Electric blue??? NSE light blue??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigd Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I think it is rail blue, both above and below the red stripe. And that the apparent difference is just due to reflected light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted October 8, 2011 Author Share Posted October 8, 2011 Hi Gents, thanks for your input, I can confirm it is definitely 2 shades of blue involved, you can manage to see that the 86 on the right hand side the blue on the roof matches the upper section of the 128, so the lower section is definitely darker, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I have found a reference that these DMUs carried all over BR Blue (the same as most 1st generation DMU) For Parcel duties they simply had the Red TPO colour applied at handle level and were not repainted, neither did they have any other colours applied This would pretty much confirm the difference in the photo appears to be due to the light source I would suggest looking at other photos (especially directly side on) to confirm this edit : Found these and compare : http://www.flickr.co...N02/3621851074/ http://www.flickr.co...009/4296337484/ http://www.flickr.co...N02/3622509427/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/21611052@N02/3623329542/ http://www.flickr.co...h-v/6124502431/ I think this is the most convincing one, clearly this DMU was previous BR Blue and simply had the stripe applied Also note that the roof is still BR Roof Blue However, I am unsure why it has a light grey stripe at cantrail level along the bodyside Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Why's my old chum Eddie Knorn not on this forum when you need him..? Saying that, does the Morrison standard work 'First Generation British Railways DMUs' not contain any details? There's certainly a decent selection of photos, albeit B&W, of the units. Definitely two subtly different shades as you say, although seen individually I'd've passed em both off as Rail Blue. Kinda Railmatch vs Lima, if you get my drift. The top part looks how I remember Rail Blue in the mid '70s, the bottom part how it looks in tins of enamel today! Here's another: http://www.flickr.co...37484/lightbox/ EDIT: I was beaten to it! That phot looks like two shades to me though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 I'm sure it is. The other photos show class 105's and 127's that were plain blue and just had the stripes added. The 128's were definitely different. EDIT: Just dug out my old Platform 5 book from 1986. I could scan the photo but I guess it would be against publishing rights. One of the photos is of 55994 but the red stripe is grey. The caption goes on to say that the staff at Tyseley suggested the livery but the grey stripe was repainted red. The blues are definitely different shades. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Why's my old chum Eddie Knorn not on this forum when you need him..? Saying that, does the Morrison standard work 'First Generation British Railways DMUs' not contain any details? There's certainly a decent selection of photos, albeit B&W, of the units. Definitely two subtly different shades as you say, although seen individually I'd've passed em both off as Rail Blue. Kinda Railmatch vs Lima, if you get my drift. The top part looks how I remember Rail Blue in the mid '70s, the bottom part how it looks in tins of enamel today! Here's another: http://www.flickr.co...37484/lightbox/ EDIT: I was beaten to it! That phot looks like two shades to me though. Useful shot because we have colour references from other stock in the picture. The lower blue seems to match the rail blue of the unit behind - the upper blue does not. The upper blue is quite different from either the Provincial dark blue or Provincial light blue , and if - as is likely - an existing standard colour has been used, I think it might be NSE blue , which would be rich enough Morrison p218, top picture shows M55994 passing Shrewsbury in May 1986 in this "red Star" l,ivery, and it is very obviously 2 tone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D6975 Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 My two pennorth I remember seeing these units and distinctly remember that the cl 128 single units had a paler shade of blue on the upper half, the lower half being standard rail blue. 2 car units were all rail blue above and below as I recall, can't remember ever seeing the paler shade of blue on any of those. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigd Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Do these help?: http://www.flickr.co...009/4296337484/ http://www.flickr.co...947/5995121406/ http://www.flickr.co...N02/3621851074/ Edit: MJKerr has already posted some of these! Interesting that people can look at the same shots and see them differently! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Looking again at the platform 5 book in the data section, livery is stated as "Rail Blue, Red, and Brute Blue". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kintbury jon Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Is this a match? http://fourwheeler.automotive.com/19594/129-0711-1997-jeep-tj-brute-paint/photos4-0.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 BRUTE Blue is actually a reference to BRUTE (not the actual road vehicle type) British Railways Utility Trolley Equipment Sadly this is not a colour I researched during the 1990s, so used BR Blue However I do agree it was slightly lighter, but not by much Equally, when Red Star purchased the final batch of BRUTE these were red in colour (the original BR ones were unpainted and/or blue) Sadly it looks like the historical references for this has long since been lost (like so many things) Therefore try slightly lighter blues on a plain piece of plastic next to rail blue and see which looks right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 8, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2011 The pic is dated Dec 1985. NSE launched in June 1986, so any colour similarity is coincidental. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 The pic is dated Dec 1985. NSE launched in June 1986, so any colour similarity is coincidental The colour was already in use well before this and I would suspect around 1981 Due to its limited use it probably was not well documented and at the time was a generic colour Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted October 8, 2011 Author Share Posted October 8, 2011 The colour was already in use well before this and I would suspect around 1981 Due to its limited use it probably was not well documented and at the time was a generic colour Would that give the darker shade to the lower section ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Looking again at the platform 5 book in the data section, livery is stated as "Rail Blue, Red, and Brute Blue". Given that these units were working closely with BRUTES, and KJ's reference to the Platform 5 livery code reinforces this, that's presumably the answer to the riddle. Question remains, what was the palette reference? - unless we take Ian's point and retrospectively apply BR's colour reference for NSE (nee Generic) mid-blue. EDIT: and in answer to MB's post immediately preceding this, the upper section surely would be the lighter, NSE, blue. As we have seen in the Flickr images, the lower section matches pax DMUs of the day. Not sure which order P5's references went - up or down the bodyside, but my above comment I reckon matches what's on the unit in the OP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 Could the upper blue be one of those used on the 'SeaLink' livery Mk.1s? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerr Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Would that give the darker shade to the lower section ? The upper is the ligher blue, the lower blue is definitely BR Rail Blue I am still researching this lighter colour (the upper one), and as above I would test something like NSE Dark Blue Could the upper blue be one of those used on the 'SeaLink' livery Mk.1s? That's a good hint, and again will check the colour code (however I suspect BR used their own blue for this) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Now then, does this page help or hinder our quandry ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 Helps me - I reckon that's BRUTE Blue above the red stripe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Helps me - I reckon that's BRUTE Blue above the red stripe. Hi, okay then, would you say that it is standard Rail Blue below the red stripe ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted October 9, 2011 Share Posted October 9, 2011 BRUTE Blue is actually a reference to BRUTE (not the actual road vehicle type) British Railways Utility Trolley Equipment Sadly this is not a colour I researched during the 1990s, so used BR Blue However I do agree it was slightly lighter, but not by much Equally, when Red Star purchased the final batch of BRUTE these were red in colour (the original BR ones were unpainted and/or blue) Sadly it looks like the historical references for this has long since been lost (like so many things) Therefore try slightly lighter blues on a plain piece of plastic next to rail blue and see which looks right Red Brutes were ex post office ones and were taller than the BR ones. There where white ones too as well as half height and ones with no sides a all. Going back to the OP, the lower is definately rail blue. The Upper blue was probably mixed by tysley staff and doesnt match anything else but it looks similar to NSE light blue HTH Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
muddys-blues Posted October 9, 2011 Author Share Posted October 9, 2011 Red Brutes were ex post office ones and were taller than the BR ones. There where white ones too as well as half height and ones with no sides a all. Going back to the OP, the lower is definately rail blue. The Upper blue was probably mixed by tysley staff and doesnt match anything else but it looks similar to NSE light blue HTH Jim Hi Jim, thanks for that info, I shall have a play around with some paint mixes, I shall start with Rail Blue for the lower and I will play with some NSE blue and throw some mixes in. I shall update this thread with my findings. Many thanks to all those that have inputted into this post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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