Emu's being towed by a loco?

[Earl Bathurst]

Hi

Sorry if this is a silly question but would Southern EMU units have been towed by a locomotive to places like Cornwall or Devon? Was thinking they might have been used during busy summer Saturdays?

Any help on this would be great.

Thanks

[frobisher]

Highly unlikely I'd have thought, with the possible exception of the 4TCs which did go off region.

[royaloak]

I assume you are talking about BR days and if so why would there be a need to tow EMUs around when there were plenty of spare coaches lying around some of which were only used for a few weekends in summer.

[Earl Bathurst]

In BR days. It was just something I was wondering because you hear of unusual movements and thought this could of been 1 of them?

[10800]

Highly unlikely I'd have thought, with the possible exception of the 4TCs which did go off region.

 

Can you give more details of that? (4TCs not true EMUs of course).

 

The answer to the OP has to be a resounding 'no'.

[plarailfan]

Here we are http://www.flickr.co...N02/5430824684/ not loco hauled, but the Hastings sets have been out and about However, this is what you're after, it's outrageous, lol http://www.flickr.co...ely/5789604249/

[frobisher]

Can you give more details of that? (4TCs not true EMUs of course).

 

From what I understand services were run to Cardiff from Portsmouth(?) and vice versa with 2 x 4TC and (mostly) a 33/1 in the early 90's. There may have been others. Comparitively speaking, Southern Region did not have the same pool of coaching stock that the other regions had for interregional services.

[plarailfan]

And I've found this too - in North Wales, lol, again 4TC's though.

Dreadful...

 

http://www.penmorfa.com/Archive/twentysix.html

 

Edit to include this quote, on RMweb, from roythebus --

 

Or the time a 31/1 and 4TC appeared at New Street. The station man said, it's got a loco, it needs to run round! No it doesn't said the driver. I just change ends. This baffled the brummie, who then put a tail lamp on the loco, which the Southern man discarded, changed ends, and fox-trot oscar'd the way he came!

 

Apparently they'd not heard of push-pull working in that part of the world then.

[Southernman46]

With anything other than TC's the dangly bits of the shoegear would very soon come into contact with some lineside object such as point rodding which the SR put in the 4ft - so no, unless going for scrap or works attention when the shoegear would be removed - i.e. with the 100 odd 4-CEP's that went to Swindon and back for refurbishing in the late 70's/early 80's

[Gwiwer]

SR EMU stock working off-region is required to have its electrical shoe gear "paddled up", that is lifted and secured by the large wooden "paddle" sometimes seen in the cab through the offside window. This is not an operation which can be safely done on the lineside in service.

 

Electric stock did not get towed (nor propelled push-pull) off the region in service, full stop.

 

The exceptions as noted above are the operation of 4TC units which were trailer sets without pick-up shoes. These (and the 3TC sets which also ran for a few years before being augmented to 4TC) were regularly worked with class 33/1 locos between Portsmouth and Bristol (sometimes Cardiff), between Waterloo and Exeter and very occasionally elsewhere.

 

They could be hauled by any other suitable loco as well and occasionally a 33/0 would be employed. These cannot be used to push the units and do need a run-round facility.

 

Apart from occasional railtours BR-SR MU stock (as opposed to the later class 159 units)has not reached Cornwall.

[big jim]

i remember the 33/1 on the coast, at the time my mum lived near holyhead and we went shopping into town, looked across to the depot and there was the 33 getting fuelled, i was only 14 at the time but clearly remember it!

 

i also remember someone we knew on the railway at the time saying that when it arrived in holyhead for fuel it was running on fumes, a few hundered gallons left in it

[pH]

Getting closer to answering 'yes' to the OP's question?: http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=36076

[Gwiwer]

Getting closer to answering 'yes' to the OP's question?: http://www.railbrit....e2.php?id=36076

Not really.

 

1. It's a railtour not a service train;

2. It's 4 TC stock which as discussed above does not have electric pick-up shoes and

3. 4TC stock has appeared at Barnstaple on numerous occasions.

 

But thanks for the image.

[br2975]

Class 33/1 and 4-TC stock first appeared at Cardiff (on Portsmouth Harbour trains) during the winter timetable of either 1971 or 1972; and then for but a few weeks with but one return working on a Sunday to cope with PW work.

.

At the same time there was a summer dated Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff working that brought a Cl.33 and hauled stock to South Wales on a Saturday, sometimes a relief or second working would run.

.

As we all know, Cl.33s became commonplace on the Portsmouth - Bristol - Cardiff - West Wales and Cardiff - Crewe - Holyhead - Liverpool - Manchester routes during the 1980s but with hauled stock.

.

Cl.33s did work trains of condemned BR(SR) EMU stock to Gwent Demolition at Margam for scrapping during the very late 80s and early 1990s. I have footage of a Cl.33/1 returning light along the SWML through St.Fagans taken in Jan. 1992.

.

Returning to the subject, Cl.33/1 + 4TC combos were quite common on Southampton - Cardiff 'Rugex' workings for the Five Nations matches played in Cardiff.

.

The attached pictures were (IIRC) taken on the day of a Wales v England match, 18th March 1989 (or 1990).

[stewartingram]

Not quite Cornwall but East Anglia. I remember the Fen Steam weekend in NSE days, when emu's (312?) were used as locohauled stock on the Bishops Stortford - Cambridge shuttles, due to lack of normal coaches by that time. Now that was RARE!. Only other instance I know of was an AM4 set or similar, ECS south through Cambridge around 1961/2, steam hauled. Either new or ex works repair I suspect. And note these were both o/h stock not 3rd rail.

 

Stewart

['CHARD]

And I've found this too - in North Wales, lol, again 4TC's though.

Dreadful...

 

http://www.penmorfa..../twentysix.html,

 

With ex-Sealink Duke of Lancaster ferry in the background. That is a money-shot of scandalous proportions. DREADFUL!

[Glorious NSE]

Not really.

 

1. It's a railtour not a service train;

2. It's 4 TC stock which as discussed above does not have electric pick-up shoes and

3. 4TC stock has appeared at Barnstaple on numerous occasions.

 

But thanks for the image.

 

I agree, it doesn't really count for the purposes of the OP.

 

The railtour stock in that pic (a pair of redundant TCs repainted rather smartly into their original blue) - usually powered by one of a pair of plain grey 33/1s was a NSE 'railtour' rake and it really did manage to get far and wide - I recall spending a nice day going from Blackfriars to Fenchurch Street (via Tonbridge, Nuneaton and Ipswich!) in it...

 

http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/90s/930724hr.htm

[br2975]

In that case, I suppose the Cl.33/1 and TC used in South west Scotland for filming 'Mission Impossible' doesn't count either ?

.

Especially as after the application of CGI it appeared on screen as a Eurostar !!!!!!!

.

Now that's what I call paintshop !

.

Brian R

[Peter Kazmierczak]

EMU's would appear off region behind a diesel either en-route to the scrapyard or off for a works overhaul as at

 

Regards,

Peter

[royaloak]

SR EMU stock working off-region is required to have its electrical shoe gear "paddled up", that is lifted and secured by the large wooden "paddle" sometimes seen in the cab through the offside window. This is not an operation which can be safely done on the lineside in service.

Nearly right, the shoes would have to be removed, if they were strapped up but will still be out of gauge.

Paddling a train up involves placing a paddle between the shoes and the con rail, the train cannot be moved or else it will slide off the paddles.

The paddle in the second mans window signifies that the handbrake has been applied at that end.

[Oldddudders]

The paddle in the second mans window signifies that the handbrake has been applied at that end.

True, but if Southern EMUs had ever had a second man I suspect Arkwright Road would be an even happier place!

[roythebus]

I did once on a 4SUB when the deadman failed at Waterloo.

[298]

A 303 once ventured to Inverness for an open day, and there was a regular EMU drag from Soho to Tyseley for wheel turning, usually with a 31 as power. Also, when I went to school alongside the Coventry-Nuneaton line, saw a 31 hauling a class 310 unit on a Cov-Nun-Stafford stopper. We couldn't work out if it was a trial or deputising for a failed DMU, but was definitely in passenger service.

[Guest Phil]

A 303 once ventured to Inverness for an open day, and there was a regular EMU drag from Soho to Tyseley for wheel turning, usually with a 31 as power. Also, when I went to school alongside the Coventry-Nuneaton line, saw a 31 hauling a class 310 unit on a Cov-Nun-Stafford stopper. We couldn't work out if it was a trial or deputising for a failed DMU, but was definitely in passenger service.

 

 

Ahhh

EMU drags

 

Each traincrew depot on the electrified LMR kept a set of air extension pipes for rescuing AC EMUs. I cant recall all the times I used them. but apart from using a pair of BRT class 20s to drag a 312 (mentioned on this forum previously) I also remember a class 304 failing on the down at Bescot and sending out a class 56 to drag the unit into the platform to detrain the passengers, then empty to Soho.

 

The above mentioned 31 would have needed extension pipes which were kept together by a bracket and wingnuts. This is because most of the EMU classes had high level airpipes which didn't always meet the bufferbeam height set on the loco.