Hattons problems - esp. comment if in Aus or NZ

[Kallaroonian]

I have only ever placed two orders with Hattons (although I have some major orders for track that now hang in the balance). The first was several months ago and comprised three packages.Of these, one never turned up and Hattons swiftly resent it after their "not delivered in 25 days" rule was met.

 

The second order I placed in July/August or something but it was an early order that included a Baby Deltic and the third I placed in September.

 

The September order has not yet arrived and, in my opinion, Hattons are being evasive about the whole issue. They seem convinced that it will turn up and that there are other customers overseas who are getting orders very late. Apparently I may have to wait 10 weeks, never mind the original 5 week/25 day rule.

 

They are unable to explain why I should have to wait this long.

 

They are unable to explain why their shipments are taking so long. I ordered three other things around the same time - one from Bromsgove models, one from a UK ebay trader and one from an ebay shop located in Turkey. All of these things arrived in the expected timeframe (a couple of weeks) but it seems I am expected to accept that Hattons shipments might take 5 times as long

 

They seem unwilling to accept the fact that they are 2 for 2 in terms of lost orders (although I would agree it is very mysterious). Worse still they seem hell bent on the idea that it will turn up and that therefore a replacement doesn't need to be shipped.

 

I am wondering what experiences others have had recently - specifically modellers ordering items over the last 6 weeks and especially modellers located in Australia or New Zealand.

 

Right now I'm just moments away from calling the credit card company

 

Regards

[billbedford]

Did you ask them whether it had been shipped by surface mail?

[mobi323]

I'm in SE Queensland and have had no problems with Hattons. Royal Mail is a bit slow but Hattons ship very rapidly. They usually let you know when they process the order, make up the order and the when they send it. Three emails for each order. I have found they ship within a day or so (I suppose if the item is not in stock it might be a little different).

The only thing a bit strange about Hattons is that there seems to be two separate companies under the one banner (ehattons.com and Hattons.co.uk). The strange thing is that they don't seem to know each other. They have separate shopping carts and the most certainly don't know what orders are sent by the other.

[brushman47544]

Not OZ/NZ but still overseas... I'm in Portugal and have never had problems with Hattons parcels not arriving. I now always select the slightly faster Royal Mail Europe (Small Packet) rate (3-5 days) because this is more reliable than the cheaper rate, which can take over three to four weeks instead of the nominal 5-10 days. I've also had similar delays with the cheapest postage rate using other shops - a book took just under three months over the summer. So your delays may be more down to the UK Royal Mail than Hattons itself.

 

As regards the Baby Deltic I see you pre-ordered, when you order a number of items some of which are in stock others not, you get the option of separate deliveries (with extra postage costs) or waiting until all items are available in stock. Since the Baby Deltics have only just arrived from Heljan, that order may have been kept back until now?

 

My experiences with Hattons would suggest you've been rather unlucky.

[Kallaroonian]

The thing is brushman, I have had several other items turn up in the same timeframe from other places with no problem at all.

 

The Baby Deltic order had been held back and no problem with that (well actually there is another problem I wasn't going to complicate things with but for some reason once the BD turned up they decided not to send it and the other loco in the order together but to separate them and ship them separately....doh). So that's the second order and supposedly on it's way via two separate packages both registered mail.

 

The first order included track and it was that box that went missing. The third order was an L1 and a some urgently required fishplates etc and it is this order that is the current problem. It was shipped priority airmail. I won't be waiting 10w for it that's for sure. What ticks me off is not so much that it went missing but the attitude that they "know" it will turn up and I should just wait and wait. And why would Hattons be suffering from this poor delivery when other shipments have been fine.

 

There's 300m of track and 100 points waiting in the ordering wings. Other than being cheaper I can't really see why I would give the custom to Hattons at the moment

[Revolution Mike]

What is the 25 day rule that they are quoting? It sounds like they are falling back on the Royal Mail's rules for claims on lost parcels, but as the consumer the your contract is with Hattons (and nothing to do with Hattons and the RM).

 

The T&Cs page of Hattons website appears to be blank which isn't very helpful, but I would be inclined to look at the RM's expected delivery times for where you live and to question Hattons if perhaps the parcel does not appear after say another week.

[Kallaroonian]

I'm going to say either it turns up or a replacement is shipped by the end of this week.

 

Not sure on RM's expected delivery times as quoted but 2 x RM and 1 x Turkish Post managed to get other things here in about 10 days. I have a feeling this package didn't even get shipped and they are so sure about it because it now has been shipped. It would sit better if folks could explain themselves rather than just chanting the mantra "it will turn up, it will turn up"

[Revolution Mike]

Among some retailers (not confined to Hattons) there seems to be an increasing reliance on the fallback of saying that they have to wait X (28?) days to claim through RM. While I appreciate the difficulty that must cause some retailers, it isn't really my problem - my contract and expectations are with the retailer (not which ever delivery service they use). I have in the past pushed the retailer to send out replacements if it is looking like RM/similar have lost things - most have been happy to do so, obviously with the understanding that if the original does turn up then I will post it back!

 

Good luck, Mike

[Pete Piszczek]

Be patient. I've had items to the east coast of North America take 8-9 weeks, but that is rare.

 

Out of approximately 50 orders from Hattons over the last five years, nothing has ever failed to turn up, and that included a really late, stuck in a warehouse during the postal strike, package...

 

Current wait, via city link, is about three weeks. Used to be ten days, but with security, and air mail, odd delays happen.

 

Royal Mail air has also gone surface before, you can hardly blame Hattons.

 

They've already sent you one missing parcel, promptly as you stated; maybe it's time to trust them, since they showed some trust with you...

[brossard]

Usually my orders to Canada take between 1 to 2 weeks. I must have ordered over a hundred times. I generally opt for the cheapest airmail option which means the parcel is not tracked. When my parcel takes longer than usual it typically means that Canada Revenue Agency have snagged it. The postie finally drops by with a demand for ransom. This happens rarely I hasten to add.

 

John

[ozwarrior]

It seems very hit and miss.

I live in SE Queensland and am waiting for a parcel sent airmail (it's the only option I use) from Hattons processed on the 9th September. Normally I'd be panicking by now except that a couple of weeks ago I received a parcel from Rails that was shipped on the 16th February!!! That's eight and a half months!

On the other hand I received one from Kernow within five days!

Sublime to the ridiculous. I have no idea why the variation except to say it may yet turn up.

Regards,

Les

Edited to make sense of babble!

[jukebox]

Whilst I understand your frustration, I think you may be blaming the wrong party. Twice in the last 12 months or so, I have had parcels clearly marked "Air Mail" with the appropriate blue Par Avion sticker take 16+ weeks to arrive from the UK, having, I assume, travelled by boat, not plane.

 

Once any seller has placed their goods in The System, whilst they may legally be responsible for it, they actually have little control over it's actual destiny. FWIW I have found both Hattons and RoS to be first class sellers, and trust them 110% to deliver what they say they have.

 

You mention these parcels were delayed and are now coming registered mail - aren't these therefore traceable, and the carrier can advise the location where they were last logged?

 

Ultimately, you may be within your rights as a consumer to complain to the retailer, and possibly could get a duplicate order sent to you, however if/when the original shipment arrives, you will then need to return it at your cost. There's no winners to this situation, and unfortunately I am not aware of any recourse available to addressees to Royal Mail for thier failure to provide the service originally paid for, let alone for the frustration of not getting something in a reasonable time.

 

Good luck.

[Bill]

Recently parcels travelling across the pond from England to Canada have been taking longer and longer..

They used to arrive in 6 to 10 business days but now it is taking up to 15 days and often even longer.

This includes signed for packages which used get some kind of priority treatment but now no longer seem to.

Hattons have always been excellent in responding to my rather terse enquiries about the whereabouts of delayed parcels and over the 7 or so years I have been dealing with them, nothing has ever gone permanently missing.

I probably receive 50 or so parcels a year and only one, so far and touch wood, has vanished without a trace and that was speedily and without question replaced by the sender (another well known vendor from the other side of the pennines).

The last transatlantic parcel I received was sent by airmail and took 28 days to arrive and that was sent from Derbyshire. Had Canadian customs decided it was taxable in some way, it would probaly have taken another week or even longer to arrive.

So the way things are at the moment, I find that it is a good opportunity to practise being patient and take time to better the enjoy the railway stuff that I do have - which these days is quite terrific!

[chris_irl]

Moved to NZ recently, the one order I've made took 5 days.

Far faster than any other place I've ordered off while here

[Oldddudders]

I have to subscribe to the "it's a lottery" theory. Very often things sent from the UK arrive in a very few days, sometimes only 3. On 19th October a small, light, soft parcel - i.e. not an awkward heavy box - was despatched from Manchester (postmark confirms) and it arrived here on 11th November, just after the obliging supplier had posted a replacement. A contemporary ebay order from Hong Kong, about the same size & weight, took less time.

 

I will also join the long queue of people saying how helpful they find Hattons.

[HSTVee8]

Please be patient Kalaroonian. The fact that I have been buying my model railway items from Hattons for over 40 years and still do; and am also a long-term customer of Rails says it all. There is no alternative if you live in Perth, Western Australia where there are only three model shops and the cost is sometimes close on twice that of importing direct from the UK, especially for Bachmann.

 

Now assuming the combination of the Australian importer and the model shops in Perth actually get your selected models in, one Perth hobby shop is rude to customers, the other takes every locomotive out of its box and places them on glass display shelves, so they become shop display items and not brand new ones, whilst the third is dimly lit and places many items so close to the floor that one sometimes has to take a torch and kneel down to see what is on display.

 

Many of the delays to Australian customers of the erstwhile Hattons can be attributed to the Australian Customs Service which has been overwhelmed with imports since two major retailers in Australia (department store and an electrical retailer) complained vigorously to the Government about its policy of not taxing private imports where the value was less than $A1,000 (or the combined amount of import duty and Goods and Services Tax (our VAT) was below a certain threshold which made it cost more administratively to collect than it was worth. They created the awareness that buying from overseas is the way to go. So with the Aussie dollar being strong, the general public in Australia is buying heaps of everything from overseas. And it all has to be scanned for nasties and checked before release for delivery.

 

Perhaps it may be prudent for Hattons to amend the delivery times by the various modes of postage overseas, so if a parcel only takes two or three weeks instead of five to seven, then its a bonus for the customer.

 

The process of being a customer of Hattons is far to easy. Gone are the days of writing to Norman Hatton asking if the items were available and cost including postage, then receiving his letter back, going to the bank for an overseas cheque in Sterling and posting it, then waiting three months for it to come by sea. Just as well I did. Wrenn Pacifics cost less than ten quid.

 

Having said my piece about our local model shops, I do like to support them when they are within, say 10 or 20% of the UK price and PECO track (not points or anything else) is one area where they are competitive especially for orders of 25 or more lengths.

[Kallaroonian]

Thanks for the feedback everybody.

 

Clearly the whole situation has major lottery characteristics. The current status is that the original problem order is still missing in action. This was sent airmail priority many weeks ago. The second order has got split into two with each part sent separately by registered mail. The part that was posted first on 7 Nov is still showing up on RM site as being prepared for overseas dispatch at their processing centre and the part that was posted second on 10Nov is showing up as having been passed to the overseas postal authority for delivery in AUSTRALIA.

 

That’s how they show it. With caps. Very important but no need to shout.

 

Throughout the process Hattons have communicated well and frequently. Also when they suddenly chose to split the second order into two parts (the order was waiting all that time for Baby Deltics only to then get split when the BDs did show up) they then agreed to not charge postage for the second part. Quite rightly but very agreeable of them.

 

The only Hattons part I have trouble with is the conviction that the first order will turn up. There is no real evidence that it should when it has been in transit for > six weeks. Perhaps it accidentally went surface mail? We shall see I guess. My experience with the much older order (prior to all this) was that one of the packages never did turn up.

 

The question therefore is how long do you wait before you rinse and repeat? If the RM claim time is what’s driving this then the 21 or 25 days or whatever has long since expired.

 

As far as the bigger picture goes you have to ask how is it that multiple orders from other suppliers have got here quite quickly but the Hattons one don’t. Luck of the draw? Possibly of course. It is just a heck of a coincidence. All the more so because the subsequent two registered items are throwing up odd information – the item posted earlier seems to have gone into the RM international processing centre but never come out.

 

What it is starting to look like – and I am making no specific accusations here, simply joining the trend dots – is that items are going missing with RM. You wonder whether related items are turning up on ebay if you know what I mean.

 

There has to be some sort of explanation given the info available and the statistical likelihoods etc

 

Holden Special Tuning V8 –interesting post : - ) I am trying to figure out which model shop is which in your summary. Agree totally the prices are scandalous. I’m not so sure about the customs issue though because multiple other things have come through with no problem at all. I’m thinking of going with fewer larger orders shipped by courier in the future. I’m a lot more confident about the performance of Fedex or UPS.

 

To sum up Hattons and I are still talking but the net position is : 1 airmail package still MIA, one registered package supposedly incoming and one registered package bogged down in Liverpool, presumably, RM processing centre.

 

In case you’re wondering about the urgency the MIA package included a load of fishplates which I need to get a train running by Christmas as promised to myself and 6 yr old. I’ve now made other arrangements for those

 

So anyway stats are still dire. I’ll let you know how it progresses.

[Gwiwer]

I have placed over 50 orders with Hattons of varying size and value and over several years all of which have arrived at their Australian destination sooner or later.

 

The "two businesses" are in fact one since Hattons operates three, not just two, independent web sites. These are geared to the home and overseas markets plus what is effectively a stand-by site should the others go down which is a rare but occasional event. As they are all stand-alone sites they do not communicate with each other so your basket in one does not transfer over but your account details, which should be held by a third-party secure site these days, do. I can order with .co.uk just as easily as with eHattons and both "know" my card details.

 

Then there is the ability to nominate your preferred carrier. The cheapest option varies by size and weight of your order and is often Royal Mail surface, sometimes City Link. Royal Mail air comes in next but often a mere £1 more. The estimated delivery times are exactly that - estimated.

 

There have been significant problems beyond Hattons' control with the City Link operation which has resulted in many of their parcels taking oddly indirect routes around the World and having to await a full container before being moved. Liverpool to Australia wouldn't generate a full container so your item goes, apparently, into the next container to depart no matter where it is bound for. I have had items arrive in Swiss Mail sacks (yes - a small packet in an entire mailbag!) and via New Zealand or Sweden!!! That is the way City Link chooses to operate and no doubt is the means by which they can offer very cheap contract prices to large users.

 

Royal Mail should come by direct air freight. Mine invariably do though I have heard of two which didn't. Again service time can be affected by circumstances beyond Hattons' control such as capacity on the aircraft (especially as the build up to Christmas between UK and Oz is well and truly underway already) and routine inspections by Customs and quarantine agencies. I have not heard, however, of any substantial delays to inbound mail to Australia caused as a result of the Dollar strength generating massive rises in imported goods. Given that I have contacts within those services and can ask general questions (but not specifically related to any individual package) I would expect to have heard if there was such an issue.

 

Most items arriving in Australia will be passed into the Australia Post system for delivery whether they originate with City Link or Royal Mail. Most of us living here know the vagaries of that system where parcels are delivered by a contractor effectively in their own good time. Currently we have no parcel contractor in our area and AP are trying to recruit whilst also trying to persuade others to cover the rounds. The result is hit and miss. Three weeks ago I took delivery of five parcels from three points of origin on the same day; they were shipped as much as a month apart but had been waiting for someone to deliver them at this end. There has been nothing since. At best we only got a parcel delivery in our suburb twice a week and more typically only once. That isn't out bush either - it's in a very large residential suburb.

 

I have three parcels "in transit" two of which were notified by Hattons as shipped two and five weeks ago and both should be coming Royal Mail air with a delivery time suggested by Hattons of "5-8 working days" which is optimistic in my opinion. The third was also shipped some three weeks ago from another location which also uses the Royal Mail air service.

 

Don't give up just yet. By all means email Hattons advising the goods haven't arrived. I have never had any problem with them responding quickly and positively to any enquiry and they are required to wait a reasonable time (28 days) before initiating a search for "missing" mail. And remember that while it ought not to happen that there is the very occasional mis-sort and some "air mail" items end up floating over and taking many months. By contrast I have had one item which was requested via surface mail due to its weight appear four days later having come by air!

[Brambles]

Regarding Hattons - I live in Ireland (Republic of) and I've placed many hundreds of orders over too many years and on the rare occasion there's been a problem Hattons have always responded appropriately.

Some time ago I noticed that Hattons website introduced a Royal Mail Air Mail Economy format. Around the same time Royal Mail prices had increased significantly. It's usually £4 to here for a standard Bachmann loco with anything up to 10 days for delivery. That is a reduction in what I used to pay. There's also another Air Mail format that's more expensive but much quicker - I suspect this is what I used to pay.

Recently, Hattons sent a parcel on October 24th - it arrived November 14th. I did contact Hattons and they informed me that delivery was taking longer than usual due to a problem with Royal Mail. They explained that many of their overseas customers were experiencing similar problems and at times delivery was taking months rather than weeks or days. Sure enough the parcel arrived with other items ordered a week or more later. Actually I ordered other items after the missing order and they turned up before it! Where the parcel was I don't know! I'm presuming it's a problem with Air Mail Economy format but that's only a presumption. Perhaps you might contact Royal Mail and put a general question about overseas delivery.

[jukebox]

*snip*

Now assuming the combination of the Australian importer and the model shops in Perth actually get your selected models in, one Perth hobby shop is rude to customers, the other takes every locomotive out of its box and places them on glass display shelves, so they become shop display items and not brand new ones, whilst the third is dimly lit and places many items so close to the floor that one sometimes has to take a torch and kneel down to see what is on display.

*Snip

 

*snip*

Holden Special Tuning V8 –interesting post : - ) I am trying to figure out which model shop is which in your summary. Agree totally the prices are scandalous. *snip*

 

I think you have the makings of some sort of a contest for us locals, HST! I'd guess your third one is the only one of the three that is upstairs, and your first one is north of the city centre. The last time I was in the second one, I was joined by a staff member who "hovered" while a colleague and I perused the display case, and even though I replied that I did not need any help, he must have thought I looked like a shoplifter, cos he was not going to leave me alone back there - despite all the locos being under glass!

 

Of course you missed the "other" large model shop, somewhat further south... the one that last year chose to close down for the week between Xmas and New Year. I guess the time of year when all the Dads are off work and can bring thier kids to look and shop isn't such a money spinner after all... :-)

[ozwarrior]

An Update:

My parcel from Hattons that was despatched on the 9th Sep has arrived today (18th). That makes it ten weeks. Compared to the Rails parcel lightning speed!

It does seem now we have to expect variances in delivery times. As long as they arrive I suppose it's better than not but it would be interesting to know where the bottleneck is.

I wonder if an overland camel train would be a viable alternative?

Regards.

[HSTVee8]

Jukebox, well sleuthed indeed. I have visited the shop that is a long way to the south. It seemed to start off with great promise, but appears to have somewhat fizzled out. The upstairs shop is very competitive for yard lengths of PECO track.

 

Kallaroonian, no I am definitely not into Holden motor cars, so that is not the acronym for my user name! Think of the model number or code of the diesel engine that powered the 20 British Railway locomotives of which Hattons commissioned Heljan to make an excellent model of. (Mine arrived within 21 days by the way). These engines were fitted to 48 locomotives in Western Australia also. H = the power rating, S = the engine rotates in a single direction unlike a large marine diesel that can reverse direction for running astern and T = rail traction application.

[jukebox]

Jukebox, well sleuthed indeed. I have visited the shop that is a long way to the south. It seemed to start off with great promise, but appears to have somewhat fizzled out. The upstairs shop is very competitive for yard lengths of PECO track.

 

The "Upstairs Shop" changed hands about 18 months ago, apparently. I've not been in there for some time now, but did buy a 40th Anniversary Hornby Evening Star R2187 there at what was then the reasonably good price of $158 in 2000 (back when our peso dollar bought you 39p!) . Somewhat ironically, I upgraded it this year with a Bachmann loco drive version from RoS for what worked out to be exactly the same amount in dollar terms. We've never had it so good, etc etc!!!!!

[Kallaroonian]

HSTVee8. My humble apologies. A large assumption and deeply hurtful. I can only beg forgiveness ;-)

 

One of you guys is going to have to PM me to let me know exactly which model shop is which. I have taken a look at a couple of them on maybe two occasions each and it wasn't a rewarding process.A great place to get some paint or a paintbrush but awfully expensive for anything significant.

 

ozwarrior - interesting feedback thanks. The main question coming out of this for me is why the Hattons orders seem to have more issues. I just ordered something else from a UK model shop and they posted it yesterday. I'll report back on how long it takes (hopefully quick, it's the one with the relief package of emergency fishplates amonsgt other things). For me at least the Hattons orders have universal problems while everything else does not. I am really beginning to wonder about RM Liverpool - the only common thread is that the problem orders are from Hattons who are in Liverpool and since we all feel that Hattons themselves are OK.......

[Gwiwer]

since we all feel that Hattons themselves are OK.......

..... and have mostly had no problems with getting stuff through, albeit sometimes taking a little longer than we might wish for, by which ever carrier is selected.