RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 18, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2011 Thinking about the cover over the pipes, how about using brass wire for the pipe, then cutting a strip of foil (wine bottle seal, etc) and moulding it over the pipe? Nick Sounds like it may be a good option to try The other approach I've been thinking about is using evergreen plastic strip (file a flat on one side then add a fillet of ten thou strip either side of it I've also started drawing up an etch for the buffer beams, and will solve the tender rivet issue with an etched strip of rivets for the raised line just above the headstock and transfers for the rest. I've just cut off the pipe that runs along the footplate, this will be replaced with wire Only problem now is the choice of loco, of the two I have photos for 2220 is i believe a wartime build and hence has no cab side hand rails (the model was already drilled for them before I bought it) and the other loco was according to the Internet only built on 31/12/47 and I assume wouldn't be gw branded. This will be modelled at some point, but for now I'd rather have a gw branded loco. I did find a website with the '48 depot allocations, but just need to find a 47/48 photo of another Bristol 2251 ideally on cheddar duties! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Here is David Geen's top feed. You only get one cover which needs specifying when ordering. Current price is £10. From his sources several 2251 locomotives were coupled to 3,500 tenders. The Bachamnn Manor tender is also a 3,500 gallon. The Bachmann model issued with the Manor tender is based on thorough research by Mr Geen is supplied to Bachamnn for their release. The list was not to hand but I will post when he has time to find it. Regards Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Gentlemen, while we are on the topic of 22xx locos, and in particular those coupled to a "Manor tender", does anyone have a photograph of such a pairing which shows the relationship between the loco cab floor and the tender footplate. the Bachmann pairing has a significant difference in footplate levels and I have been unable to establish how this was dealt with in the real world. My guess is the tender was altered but some visual evidence would be nice. Thanks Geoff Robinson Great Western Journal no 24 (in depth look at 2251) and Locomotives Illustrated 55 (Dean and Collett 0-6-0) both have several shots that may be of use. The running plates are level with each other but the foot steps are further from the ground on the tender compared to the 2251 and do not line up. Regards Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 ...The running plates are level with each other but the foot steps are further from the ground on the tender compared to the 2251 and do not line up. Just to reinforce this, the RCTS Six-wheeled Tender Engines volume has three photos showing 2251s with Collett, ROD and Churchward tenders. In each case, the running plate heights are slightly different and the steps on the Churchward and ROD tenders are noticeably shorter. There are many examples where the GWR adapted the height of tender footplate so that it could be fitted to a different class of engine. If you look back at Brian's excellent photos on the previous page, you'll see how easy it was to do. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold geoff Posted November 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2011 Just to reinforce this, the RCTS Six-wheeled Tender Engines volume has three photos showing 2251s with Collett, ROD and Churchward tenders. In each case, the running plate heights are slightly different and the steps on the Churchward and ROD tenders are noticeably shorter. There are many examples where the GWR adapted the height of tender footplate so that it could be fitted to a different class of engine. If you look back at Brian's excellent photos on the previous page, you'll see how easy it was to do. Nick Thanks Nick and Mike. I expected that the tender would be altered to suit but needed to be reassured I wasn't making a false assumption. Geoff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 There are many examples where the GWR adapted the height of tender footplate so that it could be fitted to a different class of engine. If you look back at Brian's excellent photos on the previous page, you'll see how easy it was to do. Nick Bachmann supplied that bit separate for its City of Truro tender too I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 This is the Springside Models ref. DA42 set of safety valves, top feed base and short cover. If you really do want them, then it's best ordering them through a good Springside stockist Martin Finney provides much the same sort of thing in his GW kits, including the Collett Goods. The valves / valve springs really are separate castings! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 This is the Springside Models ref. DA42 set of safety valves, top feed base and short cover. If you really do want them, then it's best ordering them through a good Springside stockist £10.55, so the Geen one is cheaper. I suppose you could try asking for one of the lower grade one's if its slightly cheaper again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 19, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2011 Another photo request Last night I made a start on drawing up replacement etches for the buffer beams working from Brian's photos and scaled to fit the model. At the cab end of the loco I am having a bit of difficulty as in the photos there is the plate that goes between loco and tender covering half the detail. I have cross referenced with my own photos and it looks like the model is quite different to the prototype here with an additional raised panel and a number of missing rivets. I can see from my photo a line of 3 rivets on the outer edges, but have no idea what is along the top edge (though I am expecting another line of rivets the width of the loco) Does anyone have a photo showing this area please?, or short of that can take a photo of a Finney kit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I don't recall seeing any photos of the prototype, or similar GWR engines, from this angle where the fall plate doesn't obscure the area immediately below the footplate. Every one that I've seen is much like Brian's cab-end view. However, looking at the Mainline body I have here, all of the buffing plate detail looks remarkably similar to Brian's photo. There's just the extra horizontal line of rivets at the upper edge of that raised plate above the coupling link slots. I can't tell from the photo whether that should really be raised. It may be that there is a space below the footplate, rather like the one on the tender. On balance, I would be inclined to say that if the engine and tender are sufficiently closely coupled and with the fall plate in place then you wont be able see anything here anyway. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 19, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 19, 2011 My thoughts from the photos is that the raised it should not be raised, and there are certainly two line of rivets missing on the outer edge. I think at the end of the day I am probably fussing over nothing, just thought I might as well check as it will not take any more effort to do it right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 20, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 20, 2011 This should do the job... Still need to draw up the same for my 57xx, and add on the rivet strip for the tender and the plate between loco and tender, but it will do the job. Just trying to work out what else, (if anything) I am going to need any time soon before sending it off to be etched.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Rich I havent got out my Finney kit but there are photos of a made one on p34 of Etched Loco Construction by I Rice. On the loco plate the upper rivets aren't lined up with the lower line but in between and they extend two extra rivets above the white patches. The rivets are also lower than you've got them., lining up between the bottom two end rivets of the 3. Be careful with the tender that you have a Collett 3000/3500g tender as the one in the pictures is one of those not a Churchward design as in my thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 24, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2011 Cheers Craig I've been thinking about buying the rice book for a while now, this should prompt me to get on and order it next month. (spent too much on books this month as it is buying the Russell coach books.) Will be interesting to see how the Finney kit looks, in particular I want to work out if for my next loco if I will follow the same method as this one or go for the kit. Tender wise it's definitely the collett 3000 gallon that's needed for 2220, i cant see it listed in either Finney or Mitchells ranges so I guess I am stuck improving the mainline one..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 ......Will be interesting to see how the Finney kit looks, in particular I want to work out if for my next loco if I will follow the same method as this one or go for the kit. You won't go wrong with the Finney kit. It's a lovely bit of artwork. And the inside motion kit's good too. Thought: if you can turn the smokebox, saddle, boiler/firebox into patterns, then you have the beginnings of a 94xx pannier tank as well. Tender wise it's definitely the collett 3000 gallon that's needed for 2220, i cant see it listed in either Finney or Mitchells ranges so I guess I am stuck improving the mainline one..... Your only other alternative is the Falcon Brass etched kit for this particular tender, but you'll have to wait until the team at Dart Castings finally get the Falcon label under starter's orders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 24, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2011 Thanks Will keep an eye out tr the falcon tender and in the meantime do a little more work improving the Bachmann one Will be very interested to compare my finished model with a Finney. I am starting to think there will be very little mainline left when I am done other than the basic boiler and firebox... Cima exams are now over so unfortunately that means I now have less modelling time (and have lost my excuse to leave the inlaws straight after eating to go home for an hours modelling in piece!) Like that idea for the 94xx I guess the mainline boiler/firebox could also be adapted to fit I have a Lima 94xx from childhood, and having seen a photo of a 94xx on the cheddar branch (all be it in br days) I do rather fancy one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 ......Like that idea for the 94xx I guess the mainline boiler/firebox could also be adapted to fit.... The 94xx shared major components with the 2251 - which is why I suggested that you make patterns out of the relevant bits of the Finney frets. Quite surprised Mr. Finney hasn't yet used his beautiful artwork to carry across into a 94xx kit..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted November 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2011 The 94xx shared major components with the 2251 - which is why I suggested that you make patterns out of the relevant bits of the Finney frets. Quite surprised Mr. Finney hasn't yet used his beautiful artwork to carry across into a 94xx kit..... It's even better than that the 57Xx begat the 2251, which begat the 94XX, one of which bequeathed its boiler to 'City of Truro'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 .... begat the 2251, which begat the 94XX, one of which bequeathed its boiler to 'City of Truro'. Are you saying the Standard no.4 ("City of Truro", 43xx, 61xx) and no.10 boilers (2251, 94xx, 15xx) were the same, then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Rich Are you going to make those etches available to the great unwashed as well? Very interested if you are. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted December 2, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2011 Question, The drawings in the Russell Book, How accurate are they? Planning to start drawing up my new cab over the weekend and was planning to use the Russell drawing as a basis for the outline, then work from photos to arrange the rivets. Before I start, I'd like to double check the accuracy of the source materiel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Figure 443 on p172? Its the official diagram book drawing showing useful information for the traffic/operating department.They aren't really engineering drawings though in a lot of cases its the only source material you can find! Be better off with a GA really which should be in a GWJ somewhere.. Issue 24 in fact though a bigger copy would be better. NRM - OPC card 890 GA 2251 Class Lot 282 (the GWJ one was lot 283). Another one 11352. 13481 GA of cab and fittings, I think i'll have to get that myself when I get a chance to pop over.. Erecting plan is 8940. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted December 2, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 2, 2011 Sounds sensible sourcing a more detailed drawing, I see that none of the GW drawings are listed online, I take it that means you can only access them in person rather than ordering. Sadly the NRM is much too far away to visit. Will try and find a copy of the GWJ issue in the mean time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 The GWJ one should do as its got the dimensions of the cab on it (most of the dimensions anyway). I wonder if anyone has modelled one without the windows cut out as built during the way before? The NRM doesn't really do online for drawings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted December 3, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 3, 2011 The NRM doesn't really do online for drawings. A shame, though I guess understandable given how much of an undertaking that would be. If only the collection of GW drawings was in Swindon, would have made life much easier!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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