RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2011 While I wait on parts for my 45xx projects, I have made a start on detailing the Mainline body that will be used with a High Level chassis to model my first Collett Goods (2200 class) So far I have only done minor modifications (fitting the new lower boiler, removing moulded handrails and the moulded number plaque, sanding back the boiler bands to get closer to the almost flat bands shown in photos (working from the images in my gallery of 3205 on the South Devon Railway) I have also removed the safety valve bonnet, along with the pipe from it down to the chassis. I had originally planned to keep the pipes but it was easier to remove them to make a cleaner job of tidying the top of the boiler to get a clean joint between the bonnet and the pipe. As such it needs to be replaced, while the lower round section is easy, I am strugelling to work out the best way of modelling the top half (U shaped cover over the top of the pipe). Does anyone know a good method of modelling / parts available. The other area I have done a bit of work on is the buffer beam, the previous owner had fitted sprung buffers and cast details along with filing a recess to allow for a kaydee coupling. As a result there has already been a loss of some rivet detail. I now need to lower the buffers (to fit them in the correct position given that the loco will be running at the correct ride hight on the new chassis), and add a plate of plasticard in the recess. I am worried that this will result in the loss of even more rivet detail. Its a bit of a long shot but does anyone make a suitable etched buffer beam? I'd also be interested to hear of a supplier of the small buffers between loco and tender. Are there any other areas that are worth modifying/replacing? I am going to be fitting a 247 developments boiler backhead, along with a full set of wire handrails and separate smoke box details. Finally, would the tender from a Hornby Grange be a suitable replacement? Again there is some existing loss of rivet detail on the back of the tender, rather than spend ages replacing them with rivet transfers a new higher specification tender sounds like it would be a good option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Alan Gibson do a casting for a short safety valve bonnet and top feed covers, listed in the catalogue as "4M713 GWR safety valve/top feed - short type", though I've only seen the tall one so can't be certain that it is the correct height. 247 also do bonnets in three sizes, though I haven't seen any of these and don't know if they include the top feed parts. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 17, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2011 Thanks Nick So the pipe is for the top feed? Need to make an order with Gibson tomorrow so will tag that onto it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Yes, they are water feed pipes from the injectors. Water enters the boiler through valves under the covers on either side of the bonnet. If you look at a 48XX/14XX or a 57XX with top feed, you'll see a similar arrangement, but the top feed is under a single cover and separate from the safety valves. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 17, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2011 Thanks for the explanation Really does help knowing what the prototype is actually doing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted November 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2011 Really does help knowing what the prototype is actually doing The prototype is in south Devon - http://www.southdevo...ocomotives/3205 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 17, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2011 The prototype is in south Devon - http://www.southdevo...ocomotives/3205 I know, was taking detail photos of it back in august much to the annoyance of my fieancee who wanted to hurry up and go to the otter place... I was meaning an understanding as to the mechanics as to how components of the prototype are working such as the top feed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Are these close ups any good? 3205 was at Didcot split from the tender so I thought I better make the best of it. I have a few more close ups if you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted November 17, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2011 Finally, would the tender from a Hornby Grange be a suitable replacement? Again there is some existing loss of rivet detail on the back of the tender, rather than spend ages replacing them with rivet transfers a new higher specification tender sounds like it would be a good option. Bearing in mind that 22XXs had differing tenders behind them, you may be OK if your Grange source is one of the smaller tenders (NOT the 4,000 gall variety). On the other hand, if that's not an option, why not simply go for a replacement Bachmann tender body? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 17, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2011 Bearing in mind that 22XXs had differing tenders behind them, you may be OK if your Grange source is one of the smaller tenders (NOT the 4,000 gall variety). On the other hand, if that's not an option, why not simply go for a replacement Bachmann tender body? That is definitely a consideration, though my thoughts were more geared towards an opertunity to increase the detail of the tender body for minimal effort. I like the idea of the removable coal load reducing effort as I'd rather have a slightly lower load Will keep an eye on eBay for both. Brian those photos are perfect thanks, really useful views into the cab the under cab bits! Would definitely welcome any more, espically if you have any showing the inside motion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timara Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Rich, Unless you can find a photo that proves it (I'm yet to find one myself), I'm pretty sure that the only Collett tender found behind the 2251 class was the 3000 gallon variety (unlike the slightly larger 3500 gallon ones found on the Granges - not to be confused with the much larger 4000 gallon sort!). The only model available is that from Bachmann (formerly Mainline). If you want to get a Churchward 3500 gallon tender, there were a fair old few, but the exact numbers escape me. Can't miss them anyway! HTH, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 17, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2011 Cheers Tim Another lesson learned Think I will give the current one a dusting of primer and try and work out what rivets need adding It's the ones that would have been under the moulded on lamp iron that are the issue off the top of my head Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Here you are then a few more pictures for you. I just might one day get a Finney 7mm one of these as I do think they are a nice proportioned loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonesome_whistle Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 A nice selection of photographs which demonstrate the need for the High level chassis. It's almost impossible to miss the inside motion on one of these and the flat expanse of nothing under the boiler of the Bachmann '22' is its biggest failing. Regarding tenders, as Tim mentions, the only rtr model of a Collett 3000 gallon tender is the Bachmann one - I would however give serious consideration to the chassis kit made for this by High Level - it is the bee's knees and can be constructed either compensated or with CSBs. It is available now even if not listed as such on the website - give Chris a ring and I'm sure he will sort you out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Rich, Unless you can find a photo that proves it (I'm yet to find one myself), I'm pretty sure that the only Collett tender found behind the 2251 class was the 3000 gallon variety (unlike the slightly larger 3500 gallon ones found on the Granges - not to be confused with the much larger 4000 gallon sort!). The only model available is that from Bachmann (formerly Mainline). If you want to get a Churchward 3500 gallon tender, there were a fair old few, but the exact numbers escape me. Can't miss them anyway! HTH, The tender as originally issued by Mainline and Bachmann was with the Colett 3000 gallon tender with continous fenders. This was only appropriate for late build locos as this combination only appeared from the late 30's. Early locos entered service with Dean tenders. 2282-86 entered service with ex ROD tenders as per forthcoming Bachmann. Photo evidence shows 2215/27/51/2/7/60/64/65/72//75/76/77/3206 also running with ex ROD at various times. The last Bachmann model came out with the Manor tender.There were quite a few locos running with these, more so in BR days as the 19th century Dean tenders became beyond repair. One oddity. 3207 was coupled with a 3,500 gallon 'intermediate' tender 2374 from new for a short time. Visually, I can never tell the difference between a 3,500 and 3,000 gallon tender. The GWR tenders are a complex story with numerous frame differences. I understand Bachmann are producing a new 'absolute correct' small tender for the Dukedog as many of the existing mass produced tenders are only appropriate for a small number of locos and are not 'standard' if such a thing exists. (I am not going to mention capacity as I am bound to get it wrong) Maybe this would suit your project. Regards Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Don't forget some were coupled to a alarge ROD tender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Thanks Nick So the pipe is for the top feed? Need to make an order with Gibson tomorrow so will tag that onto it Send Dave Geen a cheque instead, beautifully cast in LWB, but not cheap @ £7.00. If you want a picture drop me a PM. I have one for the County that I'm ploughing my way through. Dave sells most of the Mitchell range as separate bits, he accepts email requests for info but prefers cheques to e-payments. And don't forget that Masokits do a wonderful etch for the GWR lamp irons - it'll drive you nuts! http://www.davidgeen.co.uk/catalogue.html http://www.scalefour.org/masokits/index.html Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 17, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2011 The High Level chassis for the tender certainly forms part of my plans, at some point in the next week I will be getting in touch with High Level to get a motor/gearbox for the 45xx anyway so getting a tender chassis for the 2251 wont be an issue. Might actually give a nicer starting point than getting straight into the loco chassis! With the tender it does look like getting some rivet transfers and getting on with it is going to be the best approach, along with drawing up new etched buffer beams for the the inner and outer end of both loco and tender. that way the buffer location can be easily corrected at the same time, and no risk of losing rivets when filling the holes left from the original locations. The way I am looking at it is that starting with the Bachmann product I am still going to have to chop off the chunky moulded lamp irons and as such will still have the same issue with the missing rivets..... I did see mention in another thread a reference to 3215 having a 4000 gallon tender in the late 60s, but having gone back to my 1948 photo of the loco in the Phillips Cheddar book I am 99% certain that the tender is exactly the same as that behind 2220 and matches the Bachmann type. If anyone can confirm which tender is shown in with 2220 and 3215 in the two 1948 photos in the Cheddar books I'd be most grateful. Mike, would definitely welcome a photo of the Dave Geen part, does that also include the top feed pips as well as the bonnet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Mike, would definitely welcome a photo of the Dave Geen part, does that also include the top feed pips as well as the bonnet? I am seeing David tomorrow. What part is it you are after? Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike G Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Mike, would definitely welcome a photo of the Dave Geen part, does that also include the top feed pips as well as the bonnet? Think that answers your question...cracking thread. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Springside Models also do the safety valve covers - the difference is that you get castings for the whole of the valves and springs inside, not just the bits at the top! The cover itself is supplied finished and ready-polished. I think they cost about a tenner each now - ref. no. is DA42. Re: the engines that were attached to ex-ROD 4000gal tenders - the engine weighed 43 tons, whilst the tender weighed 47 tons! The 22xx smokebox/boiler/firebox and saddle assembly (plus inside cylinders, I think) were also used in the 94xx pannier tank, for anyone thinking of a hybrid/semi-scratchbuild...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted November 18, 2011 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2011 Thanks mike Certainly answers the question re the top, does look a very good casting! But what I really need to know, how best to model the u shaped pipe cover that runs from below the top feed down to just below the boilers centreline before emerging as a pipe that runs down between the frames near the cab. Clearly the bottom half is easy enough with brass wire, but I was hoping there would be a cast component available for the u profile bit. Edit: Horsetan, do you have a photo of the springside part for comparison? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 ...Edit: Horsetan, do you have a photo of the springside part for comparison? I'll drag one of my two samples out, hopefully tonight. One of them was gong to be used on the "Modified Hall"..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold geoff Posted November 18, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 18, 2011 Gentlemen, while we are on the topic of 22xx locos, and in particular those coupled to a "Manor tender", does anyone have a photograph of such a pairing which shows the relationship between the loco cab floor and the tender footplate. the Bachmann pairing has a significant difference in footplate levels and I have been unable to establish how this was dealt with in the real world. My guess is the tender was altered but some visual evidence would be nice. Thanks Geoff Robinson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Springside Models also do the safety valve covers - the difference is that you get castings for the whole of the valves and springs inside, not just the bits at the top! Thanks, Mike and Horsetan, for the information/photo of products from other sources. Is that not the interior valve and spring parts on the right hand sprue beneath the top feed cover in Mike's photo? It looks like it is provided in two heights. Thinking about the cover over the pipes, how about using brass wire for the pipe, then cutting a strip of foil (wine bottle seal, etc) and moulding it over the pipe? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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