'O' gauge ? first tentative steps. Corrugated goods shed part 3: Painting and weathering

[2ManySpams]

Well done that man.

 

I'm not far off attacking my own stockpile of wagons that need priming. Do you use Halfords by any chance?

[David Siddall]

I'm not far off attacking my own stockpile of wagons that need priming. Do you use Halfords by any chance?

Nearest Halfords is now 19 miles away so I used Autocare 'Double-coat' from the local car bits shop at £4.99 for a 150ml tin. Several thin coats allowed to go off before adding more worked pretty well :-)

 

Now it's dry I can see that a small stray midge died a lingering pale grey death in the passenger compartment but that's a hazard inherent to painting outdoors. I'll prise the corpse out in due course – tedious but infinitely preferable to the ragging I get if I use aerosol paints indoors!

 

D

[2ManySpams]

The 121's first passenger?

[cromptonnut]

You should leave him there and add two more passengers, Mary and Mungo.

[Father Dougal]

Nice work. Have you got enough BR blue to give it a nice coat of paint?

[David Siddall]

Infernal combustion locomotives look so much more dignified painted in 'proper' colours – i.e. maroon or green. Unless you can come up with evidence of a 121 in Chromatic Blue then I might just be interested ;-)

 

D

[David Siddall]

Mainly for Father Dougal's benefit... the 'only' circumstances under which I would contemplate painting a 121 in overall rail-blue with a full yellow ends. Whilst they retained their as-built oval buffers :-)

 

http://freepages.nostalgia.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cyberheritage/oldy9.jpg: (Bridport, undated photo)

 

D

[Father Dougal]

Aha- see Another convert to BR Blue!

Don't tell anyone, but I am tempted to try my hand at a green diesel - bit worried about the two tone green, but it can't be that hard.

[David Siddall]

Don't tell anyone, but I am tempted to try my hand at a green diesel - bit worried about the two tone green, but it can't be that hard.

I stocked-up with Rover Brooklands Green aerosols yesterday – a pretty good match for the darker shade of BR green going by previous experience in the smaller scales.

 

According to this pretty comprehensive list of autobody colours and their railway equivalents from a-n-other forum the lighter of the two greens (which I think was called 'Sherwood' green in railway parlance???) is  Ford Highland Green.

 

D

[Dmudriver]

Rod, you'd be an absolute star if you wouldn't mind asking around at Llangollen – every little helps as they say. It'd be really handy to come get some definitive evidence for the upholstery before I paint the interior (actually even some anecdotal evidence would be more than I have now!) Colour of the wall-boards as-built would be handy (and appreciated) too – nothing precise required just enough to allow me to create a reasonably accurate representation. ;-)

 

121-pre-paint.jpg

 

My 121 is currently awaiting a couple of warm still days so I can get some painting done before adding details.

 

David 

 

Hi David

 

I was at the Llangollen DMU (sorry, "Railcar"!!) Gala at the weekend [in fact, I drove my final train in service as I've now retired from it!]  There was no-one from Arriva there so I couldn't find out much about the unit as it originally was. However, my contact has replied to me and this is what he had to say:

Apologies for the quality but I couldn't copy from my email to here, so I printed and then scanned!!!

 

I did take some pictures of the unit as it is now but I'd be wary of copying all the equipment you see as it's had fitted central door locking, data recorders, forward and rear facing cameras, CCTV, TPWS and goodness knows what else!!  I drove it and my instructions were "Don't touch anything you've not seen before on one of our units"!!!!   The pics are on my Flickr page, under "Sets".  This is the link:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dmudriver/sets/

 

Hope the above is useful.

 

I hope also you don't mind me hijacking your thread a little with information for Father Dougal.  I took some pics of the 122 and they are on the same Flickr link as above.  I also spoke to the owner of the 122 at Llangollen.  The walls, ceilings and partitions are original - I didn't ask about the floor!!  The seat coverings are not original: he said, however, that when he got it the upholsery was a mid-red colour with orange in it.  I can't find any pics, but it's interesting that red crops up in relation to the upholstery on both bubbles.  HTH.

 

 

Rod

[David Siddall]

Hi David

 

I was at the Llangollen DMU (sorry, "Railcar"!!) Gala at the weekend ... however, my contact has replied to me and this is what he had to say:

Class 121 interior.jpg

Rod you are a gent as is your contact, please pass on my grateful thanks. This info' rather satisfyingly supports my suspicions that at least some part of as-built 121 seats were (according to the photos of a green 'un in 'British Rail First Generation DMU's in Colour' by Stuart Mackay) cream/beige/tan.

 

Thanks again ....and absolutely no apologies required for what must have been the politest, least intrusive hi-jack in history! Indeed since it probably added to the sum of 'bubble' knowledge it can hardly even be called a hi-jack. Anyway as I've said before, one thing I'm not in any way about this thread is precious :-)

 

Cheers mate...

 

David

[Father Dougal]

Hi David

 

I was at the Llangollen DMU (sorry, "Railcar"!!) Gala at the weekend [in fact, I drove my final train in service as I've now retired from it!]  There was no-one from Arriva there so I couldn't find out much about the unit as it originally was. However, my contact has replied to me and this is what he had to say:

Class 121 interior.jpg

Apologies for the quality but I couldn't copy from my email to here, so I printed and then scanned!!!

 

I did take some pictures of the unit as it is now but I'd be wary of copying all the equipment you see as it's had fitted central door locking, data recorders, forward and rear facing cameras, CCTV, TPWS and goodness knows what else!!  I drove it and my instructions were "Don't touch anything you've not seen before on one of our units"!!!!   The pics are on my Flickr page, under "Sets".  This is the link:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dmudriver/sets/

 

Hope the above is useful.

 

I hope also you don't mind me hijacking your thread a little with information for Father Dougal.  I took some pics of the 122 and they are on the same Flickr link as above.  I also spoke to the owner of the 122 at Llangollen.  The walls, ceilings and partitions are original - I didn't ask about the floor!!  The seat coverings are not original: he said, however, that when he got it the upholsery was a mid-red colour with orange in it.  I can't find any pics, but it's interesting that red crops up in relation to the upholstery on both bubbles.  HTH.

 

 

Rod

Thanks Rod and sorry for the hijack David.

Dougal.

[Dmudriver]

Hi David.

 

I had a look at Stuart Mackay's book last night and see what you mean about the cream/beige/tan neck rolls.  However, I've also seen a picture in "First Generation DMUs" by Kevin Robertson which may be of help.  (A British Railways Pictorial series published by Ian Allan.)

 

It's on page 77 and shows the interior of a 117, which were also built by Pressed Steel.  The neck rolls look the same as the ones in the bubble pics in Stuart Mackay's book but this shows the complete seat - 2 and 3 person versions.  Unfortunately, it's in black and white so it doesn't help with the colour but it does show the detailing.

 

If you've not got the book, let me know and I'll PM you with some more detail.

 

Rod

[David Siddall]

I've also seen a picture in "First Generation DMUs" by Kevin Robertson which may be of help ...page 77 and shows the interior of a 117, which were also built by Pressed Steel.  The neck rolls look the same as the ones in the bubble pics in Stuart Mackay's book but this shows the complete seat - 2 and 3 person versions.  Unfortunately, it's in black and white so it doesn't help with the colour but it does show the detailing.

Thanks Rod, if you could PM 'more detail' that'd be great. 'Ressaldar' has also offered to help so between you all hopefully we should, at last, be able to confirm the upholstery colour and style of an as-built 121 :-)

 

David

[David Siddall]

Grrrr... ever start something only to end up fervently wishing you'd left well alone? Well hey, so goes the story of my 121's headcode boxes.

 

Despairing of ever making a decent job of getting them to fair into the roof in the style of the prototype using filler (the roof profile seems to be adrift or the boxes sit too low or something like that...) I decided that the answer might be to extend them back a bit. Still not entirely prototypical but certainly more so than out-of-the-box.

 

The rather strange curved cut-out in the top of the headcode boxes as supplied just doesn't look like the prototype (or match the flippin' roof curvature anywhere!)...

 

New top from thin plasticard extending right to the back of the cab moulding – the higest point of the roof dome is reduced so the new top surface should meet the main roof moulding flush (he said hopefully)

 

Yet more filler!

 

 

Hey ho... back to mowing whilst the 'Squadron Green' goes off. Only an hour or so... of mowing that is :-/

 

BFN...

 

David

 

PS: At least the interior walls are now suitably beigey-cream which isn't a million miles from what the wallboard colours should be, that I do know. As for as-built upholstery colours we now have green in the frame – oh good grief (said Charlie Brown) ???

[David Siddall]

Gentlemen.... several of you have kindly been suggesting colours for the upholstery of my Class 121 DMU, hopefully soon to be green with a small yellow warning panel (i.e. mid' 1960s).

 

Could I just say one thing... if the seats of the DMU you are looking at are upholstered in a lurid blue base colour with the sort of magenta and cyan flashes that you would try to avoid if you had a hangover it's a refurbished example (as it will be if the wall boards and ceiling are bright white). As built and through the 1960 and 70s the interior colours of DMUs were considerably more muted and tasteful than BR's idea of 1980s chic.

 

The 1980s are now of course considered to be the height of bad taste (a.k.a gaudy and tasteless ;-) however at the time I seem to recall that a pale blue suit (complete with flares and massive lapels) worked well with an orange shirt and tie teamed with red suede stack boots (OMG was that me? ;-)

 

D

[TheGhostofNigelGresley]

I seem to recall that a pale blue suit (complete with flares and massive lapels) worked well with an orange shirt and tie teamed with red suede stack boots....

 

Well, we now know what at least one of the eventual passengers will be wearing 

Personally, I remain to be convinced that a detailed upholstery is worth the modelling for all you'll see of it - but looking forward to watching..

 

Black suit, white shirt and thin (black) bootlace tie speaking - the very soul of conservatism in dress in the '80's...... 

[Ressaldar]

Hi David,

 

are you not getting carried away with the fairing aspect, the two 121s on this photo

 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/8705646184/in/pool-881284@N21

 

 

clearly show that you were closer to the truth as you had things before. I think that you should scrape the Squadron putty off before it sets if I were you.

 

cheers

 

Mike

[David Siddall]

Hi David, are you not getting carried away with the fairing aspect, the two 121s on this photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rpmarks/8705646184/in/pool-881284@N21 clearly show that you were closer to the truth as you had things before. I think that you should scrape the Squadron putty off before it sets if I were you. Cheers Mike

But then again Mike, if you look at this photo: http://www.hondawanderer.com/55032_Droitwich_1991.htm...

 

...the tops of the boxes are flush with the roof. Did they vary from example to I example I wonder?

 

David

[Ressaldar]

Hi David,

 

at the end of the day, you need to choose one example/photograph and stick with it - and keep the photo handy for when you get challenged when you are exhibiting the layout. I have not seen any other examples as per your photo link.

 

cheers

 

Mike

[David Siddall]

Mike (Ressaldar) / Chris ('TooManySpams'), I cannot but agree and I've even said similar myself.. I would however debate the wisdom of basing a model of an as-built 121 (green with oval buffers in the 1960s) on the extensively refurbished Chiltern unit W55034. I'm unlikely ever to exhibit the layout but I'd still be happier knowing the models on it, from hand-built track upwards, were as accurate as my skills can make them for the period they are intended to portray. I really don't want to become a complete pedant about this but I've been researching 121s for over a year (both exterior and interior) and one thing I'm pretty sure about is that in the majority of cases the top of their headcode boxes are level with the top of and fair into the roof profile.

 

The section in Martin Loader's railway photography site dedicated to 121s has to date provided me with the most useful evidence in one place and the first thumbnail on the page links to the photo of what I'm trying to achieve... there are plenty of others as you scroll down which provide a similarly clear view of the roof and headcode boxes from which to formulate a judgement as to to whether I'm insane or not ;-).

 

And on the subject of the green Chiltern unit... here's a shot of W55034 from a different which I've only just found and which I feel supports the assertion that the top of at least one of its headcode boxes is level with the top of the roof! And this shot I think is quite good for giving an idea of what the box profile should be – slight curved across its width:

 

When it comes to the interior Chris (GhostofNigelGresley) I don't want to become a slave to it but I'd prefer the upholstery colours to be right(ish) as opposed to totally wrong – the interior 'is' after all rather visible in a 121! Whatever the outcome... it won't be for want of trying with invaluable the help and support along the way provided by Rod (Dmudriver) who does just exactly what his screen name implies at Llangollen and who speaks from experience, having been been involved in restoring refurbished DMUs back to as original condition as possible.

 

Toodlepip...

 

David

[Ressaldar]

Hi David,

 

I think that as most if not all of Martin's photos are post 1980, and with the units in service for 20+ years by then, modifications of all sorts had been carried out to the units, including no doubt some to the headcode boxes, especially as they had ceased to be used for their original purpose, it is not surprising that some shots show a flush meeting of the box and main roof - and therefore may not be in 'as built' condition.

 

cheers

 

Mike

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

If it's any help, I came to the conclusion with the help of RMweb members http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/50811-121-dmu-interiors/?fromsearch=1 that 121's had dark red/maroon fabric seats with tan vinyl headrest when I did my Westdale 121..... the clearest pic I came up with shows a 117 interior is on page 57 of 'Diesels in Wessex'.

 

 

 

[Dmudriver]

Hi David.

 

I've found a couple of pics of a brand new 121 whch confirms your belief that the headcode boxes were level with the top of the roof from new.

 

Unfortunately, it's in the same book as before so I can't put the pic on here.  I'll PM you with details though.

 

 

Rod

[David Siddall]

If it's any help, I came to the conclusion with the help of RMweb members http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/50811-121-dmu-interiors/?fromsearch=1 that 121's had dark red/maroon fabric seats with tan vinyl headrest when I did my Westdale 121..... the clearest pic I came up with shows a 117 interior is on page 57 of 'Diesels in Wessex'.

That's brilliant Phill, thank you! Even though we don't have any colour photo evidence that's two strong steers now towards the as-built upholstery colours on 121s as being dark red/maroon with tan trim and headrests/neckrolls.

 

Cheers mate...

 

David