'O' gauge ? first tentative steps. Corrugated goods shed part 3: Painting and weathering

[TheGhostofNigelGresley]

We used to have a big framed picture of an Eagle Owl on the wall at work and underneath it said "If you chase two rabbits at once, both will escape."

 

I've just spent the last hour researching what might be possible in my 7ft by 2ft in N, even flirted with OO for a while and finally got cross with myself.

 

Focus and Discipline.

[Donw]

I like the comment about chasing two rabbits. I model in 7mm, 2mm and 16mm no wonder progress is slow.

Don

[David Siddall]

Perhaps, bearing in mind I've put my hand up to it on Cromptonnut's thread I ought to record the main reason I'm suffering a bout of disenchantment with my 7-mil efforts here.

 

Spot the obvious gaff...

 

 

to ensure that trains due to to move from the fiddle yard onto the scenic part of the layout can be assembled without having to crane-shunt there needs to be, for want of a better phrase, 'a loco-sized parking space' between the end of the traverser deck and the scenic break. Duh... !!!

 

It would be nice just now to have some kind of distraction which would take my mind off having to trash my occupation bridge embankments and (mysteriously) I just happen to have a decoder-fitted Baccy 57xx from my last 4-mil layout and a PowerCab which I never got round to selling. Add a pair of second/hand Hornby Maunsell brakes at a reasonable price and it wouldn't be a million miles away from that lovely Wadebridge photo which kicked of this tangential little ramble in the first place...

 

I dunno... :-/

[TheGhostofNigelGresley]

You could just move to cassettes instead ?

 

Much greater flexibility anyway IMO.....

[David Siddall]

You could just move to cassettes instead ?

 

Much greater flexibility anyway IMO.....

There are so many fans of the cassette system out there that it'd be hard to disagree that ditching the traverser and changing over to cassettes might be my best way forward.

 

However Cromptonnut very succinctly summed up one of their shortcomings IMO – the weight of something like a Heljan 7-mil diesel down one end as you turn a train-length cassette on a narrow baseboard! How would that work... whoops, crash, oh noooooooo!

 

D

[TheGhostofNigelGresley]

I just think that what you have tried to do there, whilst very cleverly engineered, you don't have the space for. To do it properly would require almost another layout in itself, complete with runaround loops, maybe even a turntable. From where I sit, the expedient solution is a range of cassettes - and I back you to come up with a solution for the 'worst case scenario' - some kind of endplate for example ?

 

My ten pence worth.

[Donw]

The answer David is to have the home signal a loco length in from the traverser. Train runs in loco uncoupled onto rear loco lines. To return train spare road to loco , loco moves on. spare road with loco to exit position locos moves onto exit road appears to stop at home signal. train moved to exit position and carefully pushed forward (press on buffers only) which then coples up if using auto couplings. Signal clears and train pulls into station.

Don

[daifly]

There are so many fans of the cassette system out there that it'd be hard to disagree that ditching the traverser and changing over to cassettes might be my best way forward.

 

However Cromptonnut very succinctly summed up one of their shortcomings IMO – the weight of something like a Heljan 7-mil diesel down one end as you turn a train-length cassette on a narrow baseboard! How would that work... whoops, crash, oh noooooooo!

 

D

Surely, you'd have the loco on a separate cassette? Keeps the weight down, allows easy turning of tender locos etc. Coach rakes may not need turning at all - just repositioning of the loco.

Dave

[cromptonnut]

From memory, a Heljan 33 weights about 3.5kg.

 

Not entirely looking forward to having four fully occupied roads on the traverser - although budget constraints does at least mean that it is some way off...

[David Siddall]

Cheers guys... particularly interesting operational solution there Don which will need some pondering (my dull brain needs to visualise ;-)

 

Dave, thank you... separate loco cassettes would seem to be obvious to some folks but obviously not to me until you pointed it out – duh (again!).

 

Chris... space is defo at a premium. The blessed fiddle yard seems to dominate the layout in a way I've never experienced in the smaller scales!

 

Nice work on your traverser by the way 'Nut'. I see it boings nicely under the weight of your 33. 2" x 1" lateral timber supports under mine in an attempt to overcome Heljan + gravity = sag!

 

Whatever solution I ultimately deploy it'll involve some brutality in the short term to shuffle everything scenic a loco length up the board.

 

 

General hacking, stripping and demolition. Now need some extra 5mm MDF sheet to level things off.

 

 

Not much of my occupation bridge left but more than I dared hope for :-)

 

 

And the station building will have to shrink a bit to fit the reduced space... but I think it still looks plausible?

 

D

[Barnaby]

Hy David and all.

It is my intention to have aluminium angle set at the wheel spacing to mimic the track.  I propose to have separate loco sledges so that I can quickly move the loco to another waiting train or switch it to the other end.  The electrics flow through the angle and the loco sledge is secured to the waggon sledge by using big bulldog clips to either side of the angle thus both securing and making an electrical connection at the same time.  As I said above it's both simple and effective a n d it should remove Andrew's weight problem....................if only all weight problems were so easy to control.

 

Regards

[Dmudriver]

Hi David

 

I've just come in from Wigan exhibition and started reading today's posts.  First of all, don't give up on 7mm!!  It is really worth it. I had 4 mm until I moved house 20 years ago, now I'm into 0 gauge.  I've operated a 4mm layout today and, good though it is, I am definitely not going back to it (even though I've got, in 4mm, a large logo class 50, a 108 dmu in blue, a Provincial liveried 158, a blue 31 and a blue 08 - plus a fair bit of track!!)

 

I'd support the suggestions of cassettes, made of aluminium angle iron, as Barnaby suggests.  I operate on two 7mm layouts which both use this method (Apethorne Junction and Oldham KIng Street Parcels) and I think it is very effective.  We use separate cassettes for the locos - 2 lengths, one for class 40 and 45s, the others for the rest.  It is imperative though to have blocks at each end of the cassette to make sure loco or stock does not run off the ends when moved or lifted.  On the 2 layouts I've mentioned, there's a vertical slot cut into both pieces of aluminium at each end of the cassette and double thickness strips of plasticard slot in to keep stock and locos in place; these strips are shouldered to make sure the plasticard strips don't slip out.

 

Although I'd recommend cassettes where space is at a premium, I've not used them on my layout but that's because I had the space and spare Peco points and track.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Rod

[TheGhostofNigelGresley]

Loving the renewed energy David.

 

Station looks ok, bridge survived as well - onwards and upwards...

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Chin up - we all have these/those moments - and stick with it.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

[Barnaby]

While we are all in the confessional chamber I have to admit to messing up on my board dimensions such that my locos couldn't clear the run-a-round loop. I had to make the small shelf extension I referred to else where on here to accommodate that manoeuvre and make some subtle changes to the track plan. Starting to lay the track again this week I hope. Pleasing to note I'm amongst friends in my cock-ups.

 

Keep on constructing David

 

Regards

[David Siddall]

He who never made a cock up never made anything worth having – or so I believe the saying goes? :-)

 

Making good and reconstruction of Little Shuffling's occupation bridge in its new location has now begun... plus, as mentioned in a previous post, I've been juggling with mock-ups for a station building to fit into the now reduced building space on the platform – I'm not pulling 'that' up for love, money or any other kind of inducement so smaller, in terms of station buildings anyway, is definitely now beautiful!

 

 

Yesterday's attempt at a reduced brick-built structure however didn't look as convincing in situ as on screen, so I've had a go at adapting some drawings I did derived from Monmouth Troy and I'm rather glad I did .

 

Many thanks for the encouragement folks... it's much appreciated :-)

 

David

[Dmudriver]

Hi David.

 

I'm not too sure where you're up to with your 121: the last I saw you were looking for upholstery colours for an early one.  I'm not sure I can help on the upholstery, but if you need any more photos at all, I probably can help.  It's the Llangollen DMU Gala this weekend and we've got 2 bubblecars as guests.  One is a 121 - the Arriva Wales liveried one - I think that's the interior of it in the pics in post 823.  The other is a blue/grey 122 from the Battlefield line.

 

I'm driving both of them at some stage on Saturday so if you need any photos at all, I could take them for you.  I'll also see if there's anyone who could help on the upholstery colours you're looking for.

 

Rod

[Father Dougal]

Hi David.

 

I'm not too sure where you're up to with your 121: the last I saw you were looking for upholstery colours for an early one.  I'm not sure I can help on the upholstery, but if you need any more photos at all, I probably can help.  It's the Llangollen DMU Gala this weekend and we've got 2 bubblecars as guests.  One is a 121 - the Arriva Wales liveried one - I think that's the interior of it in the pics in post 823.  The other is a blue/grey 122 from the Battlefield line.

 

I'm driving both of them at some stage on Saturday so if you need any photos at all, I could take them for you.  I'll also see if there's anyone who could help on the upholstery colours you're looking for.

 

Rod

Hi Rod- (sorry to hijack your thread David!) I would be really interested in shots of the interior of a blue grey 121, if possible.

Dougal.

[Dmudriver]

Hi Rod- (sorry to hijack your thread David!) I would be really interested in shots of the interior of a blue grey 121, if possible.

Dougal.

Will do, Dougal.

 

Rod

[David Siddall]

I'm not too sure where you're up to with your 121: the last I saw you were looking for upholstery colours for an early one.  It's the Llangollen DMU Gala this weekend and we've got 2 bubblecars as guests...I'm driving both of them at some stage on Saturday so if you need any photos at all, I could take them for you.  I'll also see if there's anyone who could help on the upholstery colours you're looking for.

Rod, you'd be an absolute star if you wouldn't mind asking around at Llangollen – every little helps as they say. It'd be really handy to come get some definitive evidence for the upholstery before I paint the interior (actually even some anecdotal evidence would be more than I have now!) Colour of the wall-boards as-built would be handy (and appreciated) too – nothing precise required just enough to allow me to create a reasonably accurate representation. ;-)

 

 

My 121 is currently awaiting a couple of warm still days so I can get some painting done before adding details.

 

David 

[daifly]

Maybe some of these might give a clue:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=41998

or

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=class101%20interior&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1280&bih=651&tbm=isch#um=1&hl=en&tbm=isch&q=class+101+interior&spell=1&sa=X&ei=2VO_UfSuGOPM0AXm2IG4Aw&ved=0CFIQBSgA&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47883778,d.d2k&fp=fab4f35eeaef223&biw=1280&bih=687

or

http://www.railcar.co.uk/

Dave

[David Siddall]

Cheers Dave...

 

...the link to http://www.railcar.co.uk/ is great when it comes to the wallboard colours (providing that is a 121?) but the photo stops frustratingly short when it comes to providing evidence of the upholstery colours.

 

That tiny bit of seat back visible might however support the assertion contained on http://www.rmweb.co....php?f=5&t=41998 that: "...the seats at that stage were trimmed in early charcoal grey/black not-quite-check pattern/ sort of grid pattern" – but unfortunately that suggestion is potentially contradicted by the following post which states: "The Railcar Association web site doesn't give a colour for the 121 but does for the 117s which were also built by Pressed Steel at the same time - maroon with tan headrests".

 

When it comes to Google image options I have a feeling I might have looked at just about every first-generation DMU interior shot on-line but so far with no joy. However many thanks for taking the time and trouble to have a look... :-)

 

What's particularly frustrating is that there are a couple of photos in 'British Rail First Generation DMU's in Colour' by Stuart Mackay which suggest to me that the 121's initial upholstery might even have been a creamy beige – absolutely nothing like either of the above or any on-line photo I can find!

 

David

[daifly]

 

What's particularly frustrating is that there are a couple of photos in 'British Rail First Generation DMU's in Colour' by Stuart Mackay which suggest to me that the 121's initial upholstery might even have been a creamy beige – absolutely nothing like either of the above or any on-line photo I can find!

 

David

 

Having just looked at MacKay's book, I can see what you mean. Let me muddy things further by suggesting that it is only the headrests that are visible and the seats themselves may have been in a different material. Could it be that the headrests are in a beige vinyl (or similar material of the time) - as an easy-clean anti-maccassar? I suspect that there will be a definitive answer in one of the contemporary enthusiast periodicals. Can't help you there I'm afraid!

 

Dave

[Dmudriver]

Rod, you'd be an absolute star if you wouldn't mind asking around at Llangollen – every little helps as they say. It'd be really handy to come get some definitive evidence for the upholstery before I paint the interior (actually even some anecdotal evidence would be more than I have now!) Colour of the wall-boards as-built would be handy (and appreciated) too – nothing precise required just enough to allow me to create a reasonably accurate representation. ;-)

 

121-pre-paint.jpg

 

My 121 is currently awaiting a couple of warm still days so I can get some painting done before adding details.

 

David 

 

Ok, David, I'll certainly ask.  There is someone I know of who provided definite details of 108 interiors so I'll see if he knows anything about original 121s.  he can't make the weekend bit I think I've got his email address somewhere!!

 

Rod

[David Siddall]

Yay... first warm dry still day for gawd knows how long so I took the opportunity for a quick skive out in the garden at lunchtime to shake, rattle and spray some primer onto my 121 :-)

 

Mentally I'm obviously still logged in to the smaller scales as I only had a standard size can – fortunately 'just' enough!

 

Now safely back indoors and drying gently at the opposite end of the layout from all the destruction and re-construction.

 

Have to say I'm a bit pleased with the roof to cab-dome joints. Well, truth to tell, um, actually no... I think the word I'm looking for there is 'smug' (...sorry, just expecting to have to do a great deal more work to get them looking halfway decent at this early stage :-)

 

D