Modeling canals, any suggestions for the water?

[Black Sheep]

My layout has a section of canal on it for which I need to model some water.

 

I have a test section made which has been painted and now has a substantial amount of PVA drying in the hope of it becoming transparent but I wondered if anyone had any other cost effective ways of modeling static water?

 

Photos would be appreciated

[brossard]

I recollect an article by Allan Downes talking about, I think, a harbour scene. He used PVA for the water so you're in good company. The article was in Model Rail ISTR but I couldn't say which one.

 

Another less cost effective method is to use Woodland Scenics "Realistic Water".

 

http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/category/Water/

 

I've used this. It's nice because it doesn't require mixing. You can only lay down a fraction of an inch per day though - anything thicker won't set.

 

John

[Andy C]

If you are into a more messy and smelly process, Ive used Glass Fibre resin in the past.

[Will Vale]

I tried acrylic pouring medium (bought at the art shop, the brand I used is Liquitex) for the still water on Whitemarsh and I like the result very much. It has really good self-levelling behaviour so you get a nice flat surface. I seem to recall that it works out cheaper than the similar "sold for scenery" products. Good art shops have a board with demo patches of all their different gels and media, so you can have a look for yourself - I picked this because it was dead level and had a nice high gloss.

 

 

With all these things, as John says above pour in *thin* layers and let each dry fully before adding another. Try and keep the dust off while the surface is drying - lay newspaper or similar over the banks without touching the surface, and don't do other scenic work on the layout - scatter gets everywhere. You may want to top-coat with an acrylic varnish (Klear is great if you have some) to get even more shine once the "water" is dry.

 

One other tip - if your canal goes to the edge of the layout, rather than masking it off you might get better results by carefully pouring up to the edge but not adding so much that the stuff spills over. If you mask, the medium will creep up the tape and leave a meniscus, which to my mind looks worse. I did wonder about masking for the first pour, and unmasking for the second, in the hope of filling in the meniscus, but I haven't tried this yet.

 

HTH,

 

Will

[Mike J]

http://www.rmweb.co....11-dsc02386jpg/

Greenscenes two part resin worked quite well for us on The North of England Line (N gauge).

But I must say that Wills post above is very impressive.

Mike

Edited November 26, 2011 by Mike J

[R A Watson]

This is a section done with the Woodland Scenics Realistic Water.

 

I wanted the look of a china clay stream and between the many layers of medium each one was dusted over with a mist of matt white acrylic paint from the airbrush. This has, I think, reproduced the "suspended particles" effect you get on the prototype as the grains of clay do not completely dissolve.

 

[Kris]

Several coats of varnish over your painted surface will work if you don't want to see any detail below water level (given how murky some canals are this might be right) for a clean canal greenscenes deepwater gel works but don't pour over waterbased paints and make sure that your canal is very very well sealed. This stuff can take a very very very long time to set.

[Tim V]

What condition is the canal in? Is it working or closed? Canals very quickly become covered in growth when they aren't used. There may not be much water visible.

[Black Sheep]

I'm still deciding if its a canalised river or a purpose built canal, it's late 1940s and still in use for coal traffic coming out of a coal face canal spur.

[Tim V]

I'd suggest an acrylic sheet, painted underneath. You'll get that undisturbed gloss effect on top with the impression of depth and dirt.

[Black Sheep]

How would you recommend painting it?

[David Siddall]

Can I make one suggestion, not so much to do with the material you use for the water but with the way it's presented. Inland waterways water levels are pretty consistant within each length between locks and rarely more than a couple of feet or so below the level of towpath or wharf surfaces. A fully-loaded 70' narrowboat would work with a minimal freeboard (again about a couple of feet - or less!) and when offloading by hand, as was frequently the case, it would have been unnecessarily hard work if the contents of the hold had to be lifted higher than was absolutely necessary.

 

As a canal enthusiast and a former narrowboat owner one of the things that tends to disappoint when I see a canal modelled is dock-like walls towering above narrowboats. This would only have been the case in deep walled cuttings, empty locks or where boats ventured into seagoing territory such as in some of the former Port of London docks where they were brought alongside larger ships for cargo transfer.

Edited November 26, 2011 by David Siddall

[Black Sheep]

Thank you for that valuable input David.

 

Don't worry, I don't think I'll disappoint! the boat is to be moddled being unloaded and will be sat with deck level or slightly higher than the bank which I am under the impression is fairly realistic?

Although I am welcome to correction

[Tim V]

For inspiration

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1217856436373470397

 

Have you looked at Barry Norman's scenery DVDs? That includes suggestions of painting.

[David Siddall]

Good on ya 'Black Sheep', so many modellers seem to think that as long as you plonk a narrow boat on a bit of water the rest of the canal infrastructure is OK as a bit of a caricature. Hope you'll post some photos when you're finished? Here are links to a couple of particularly nice photos I found on-line which show an unladen full-length 'motor' alongside a wharf on the Shropshire Union Canal, both illustrate the various height relationships I was talking about...

 

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-D1tTIvgsp58/TYD3iNfl5iI/AAAAAAAAEio/EpKCZiNgmpg/s1600/Wheaton+to+Market+Drayton+002.JPG

 

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-38mG-tHvU-w/TYD3P8KiYvI/AAAAAAAAEik/68ZE1lt50h4/s1600/Wheaton+to+Market+Drayton+001.JPG

 

Today's canals are a great deal shallower than they were in the days of commercial traffic and if modelling this scene it would be reasonable to depict the water levels as up to the bottom edge of the wharf-side coping stones.

 

When fully-laden with a heavy cargo a 'motor' like this would have regularly run with the water up to the strake which runs from below the colourfully painted top-bend on the bow back to the counter (stern) which would leave only the white-painted top panel on the counter showing above water. The topsides of the hold would be a foot or so above and parallel to the surface (in fact you can just make out a waterline mark in the first photo where a some point this has recently been the case). Some captains ran them so low in the water (particularly when carrying coal) that splash boards were required to prevent water coming over the sides and into the hold.

 

David

[Black Sheep]

There will indeed be photographs, my layout is being detailed in my blog (Milliedale)

 

I've tried painting the underside of some transparent plasticard so I might go with this with a bit of blue washed over the top.

 

However I'm fitting the quayside at the moment and other bits on the railway, just finished a scalescenes weighbridge kit, so it's steady progress sporadically across the layout at the moment.

[2ManySpams]

If you are into a more messy and smelly process, Ive used Glass Fibre resin in the past.

I used this once too. Just be careful that the stuff doesn't come into contact with expanded polystyrene. I had some big melting problems as the stuff soaked through some unsealed plaster. Got a bit messy! (smells bad too)

[David Siddall]

If there was ever a colour chart for canal water I doubt you'd find blue on it ... brown, nearly black (on the industrial BCN), even rusty red, but in 30+ years on the cut I've never seen blue. To misquote Terry Pratchett, whilst urban canal water is generally thin enough to flow there are occasions when its only slightly too runny to plough!

[Tim V]

The canal reflects the sky, if the sky's blue, there's a good chance the canal will be blue.

 

What I have never seen is the bottom - the water is not clear.

[shortliner]

Even on a bright summery day - the canal would be unlikely to be blue - a murky brown to black with pond weed, would be far more realistic.

[john dew]

You could try Magic Water

 

http://www.unrealdetails.com/ It comes from the USA and if I recall cost about $25. Its a one pour resin that does exactly what it says on the bottle.......doesnt shrink and doesnt crack .......be warned it goes everywhere water will go as I found to my cost

 

I painted the ply base with various shadws of dark brown (I think blue would be highly optimistic) and then a very thin coat of Magic Water to seal the edges and then a single pour.....took 24 hours to dry

 

Here is a before and two afters....................hope this helps

 

[Tim V]

By coincidence, I was out with my camera today, gorgeous sunshine.

 

Kennet & Avon - certainly some blue in that water

 

A few weeks back I was on the Wilts & Berks, not much blue, but not much blue in the sky either.

[leopardml2341]

Hello Black Sheep,

 

Another thing you may like to reflect upon (pun intended) is the geology of your layout setting. The underlying rock structure can have a dramatic effect on the water - see these 3 contrasting locations:-

 

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2359

 

http://www.grannybuttons.com/granny_buttons/WindowsLiveWriter/private%20canal%20arm.jpg

 

http://indigodream.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/r_coventry-2009_09_12_063.jpg

 

All are in 'The Midlands' but each is very different.

 

I've tried to choose pictures which show the water unifnluenced by sky reflections - not as easy as you might think !

 

Andy

[Black Sheep]

Is that last one the Fosehill Road?

 

spent too long in coventry

 

The canal (and layout) is in the peak district / yorkshire dales area, I'll have a look at what canals up there looked like tomorrow.

[The Black Hat]

Hello

 

Id suggest making the canal as accurately as possible minus the water. Secure all areas that fluid could possibly escape. Have all the detail worked out and done. Then all I did was pour enough realistic water in to cover the area right up to the level required. I left it for a couple of days to settle and gell, before it did its work. Certainly looked the part at shows on my first layout.

 

Hope that helps.