Working with 'static' grasses

[billtee]

I want to use one of those static grass applicators (Noch, etc), but HOW do you use them? I know there is a wire which has to be connected somewhere, but to what? How far away from the 'ground' do you hold the applicator device?

 

These questions never seem to be explained, and all I see is the applicator 'sprinkling' the static grass onto PVA covered baseboard, or what I assume is baseboard.

 

Can anyone give me some advice before I begin, please? I don't want to ruin my layout.

 

Many thanks for any help/advice offered,

Bill

[Mark 37]

Hi Bill,

 

If you look at my thread http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/31005-im-about-to-tackle-an-old-Hornby-37/page__st__25 Post No45 has three videos on how to make your own static grass applicator. Anyway for the last few moments of the last video show's how to apply static grass. It should show you all you need to know.

 

Best regards,

 

Mark

[billtee]

Mark 37,

Thank you - your videos of how to make, and use, the electrostatic grass applicator were VERY helpful indeed. Now I know - I need to fix a screw, or track pin, into the baseboard and then spread the white stuff (slightly thinned PVA glue?) around the pin, then connect, press button and shake the sieve to drop the static grass onto the PVA. The electrostatic forces keep the fibres of the grass vertical, and that's it! Seems simple enough, even for an old bloke like me!

There are still a few 'unknowns' - how far away should I spread the PVA from the pin? A couple of inches? Or can I spread it out further? Is it best to let the area which has just been done dry out completely before progressing with the next section, or can I just move the pin and continue with the next bit? Should I make the PVA glue layer about 1/16th inch thick, or thicker? I would like to show 'hummocks' of grass and/or rough soil rather than an exactly flat baseboard, but will the straight, undiluted PVA be sufficient to give me these effects?

I've got to say, I'm VERY impressed with the results and I guess by mixing different colour grasses, it would give a more realistic finish.

Thank you once again, Mark 37 (must say I like your class 37s - very impressive!),

Bill

[Guest baldrick25]

To make a few 'tufts' , take a piece of plastic like a PVC clear CD/DVD sleeve and put a few dabs of slightly thinned PVA adhesive in a sort of crossword aray. There's no need for them all to touch , but leave a small gap , so it looks splattered rather than coated.

Connect the 'earth' either via crocodile clip or bulldog clip to a convenient corner. Again it need not touch the PVA drops, as long as its close.

Then use the static grass machine , slightly agitating the clear sleeve and you will end up with tufts after its left to dry , of course.

Do the same with some 'strips' of PVA and repeat the static grass treatment. When dry cut them lengthwise in the centre with a sharp knife to give one 'rough' edge and one 'straight' edge.

 

Apply a small amount of PVA on the layout where you want the grass exactly , and stick a tuft , and with the strips , apply a thin line of PVA at the edge of walls, buildings , track etc , and stick down a strip with the cut edge against the wall.

 

Hope thats clear - Its difficult to describe, but its easier to do little bits off the layout first , then stick them down.

[billtee]

Thank you, Baldrick 25 - I understand! I think the method of making the tufts BEFORE putting them on the layout a very cunning idea indeed!

All the best,

Bill

[mudmagnet]

Bill,

 

I have just been adding grass to one of my layouts (see East Yarde thread).

The PVA is diluted about 60/40 water and applied with a brush to give a thin layer. The pin is inserted into the glue. The first layer of grass is applied all over the glue and when wet can appear that you do not have much grass, but when dry shows up better. Then, additional height is achieved by adding more fibres - using an old toothbrush or paint brush, flick glue on top of grass (you will see the white glue drops) and then go over again with the fibres. This second layer can be in patches and using a different (lighter) shade of fibres. Further layers can then added as needed. The grass will literal 'grow' as tall as you want. The grass can then be lightly vacuumed to lift the excess fibres (saved and re-used).

[billtee]

Do I have to keep the 'grounding' screw in the middle of the first 'layer' of grass when applying the second layer?

Bill

[mudmagnet]

Hi Bill,

 

I have used a small nail rather than a screw, but also works by attaching crocodile clip to rail close by.

[Guest baldrick25]

Just a word of warning though, If you have DCC chipped locos , take them off the tracks and even off the layout, there's a lot of nasty static generated by these grass thingies. Even if it doesn't kill them immediately , it could shorten their life a lot. Not worth the risk- you don't see it happen either.

[Dave777]

Mix a little talc into the PVA too - takes the shine off when it dries.

 

(apologies to whoever told me about this tip)

[billtee]

I've been looking at lots of videos about using an electrostatic device for grass modelling on YouTube - most of them from the US, but just as apt! I think I've got the idea now, though the use of talc in the PVA mix is very cunning. I'll give that a try!

I'm considering putting down a coat of 'ground cover' before starting the grass laying. I've got a large quantity of used tea from teabags which I've dried out and stored in a box (don't ask - my neighbour thought I was being a bit parsemonious and trying to save money by re-using the teabags!). It is dark brown, roughly equivalent in granule size to 'coarse ballast', and could, I think, be sprinkled onto the bare baseboards between the tracks in the yard of the engine shed, onto PVA of course. It wouldn't be the 'right' colour, but it's a start, and after it had set, I could then paint on the PVA for the grass. It's just a thought at the moment, and I'll have to try it out on a bit of waste timber first, but I'll let you readers/contributors know the result.

All the best,

Bill

[Guest baldrick25]

Be careful when using dried teabags/ dried tealeaves, the tanin colour leaches everywhere at the slightest sign of water , even PVA glue. Blue walls on stations turn brown at the bottoms etc.

 

I tend to use a 'pollyfilla' type substitue on the baseboard or cork etc, often mixed with a spot of PVA , and a 1 inch old paintbrush to stipple it into place , and give a texture, and slight hillocks etc. The proceedure is to mix a small amout of PVA into the container , roughly, then push the paintbrush into it, and then into a couple of yogurt pots of greens and browns acrylic paints. Its not a homogenous mix, just blobs of everything on the brush, then stpple onto baseboard etc. Let it dry and perhaps touch in a bit of colour as needed or perhaps a bit more polyfilla if needed.

Fine sawdust worked into the filler is also a handy way to texture.

Static grass comes in various lengths, so I tend to apply a short 2mm layer , often changing the colour slightly to give the appearance of change. When dry , a second layer, with the dilute PVA hand sprayed onto the existing layer , and then use a mix of 2, 3, and 4mm grasses at the same time ( unless its a garden lawn of course) . Then work some tufts in , before dry brushing with thinned acrylics in greens , browns, blacks ( or red if there's poppies around) just to add depth. Takes a few days though, and don't forget to cover the track and other things with bits of card and/or lo-tack tape.

[Tel2010]

Just a word of warning though, If you have DCC chipped locos , take them off the tracks and even off the layout, there's a lot of nasty static generated by these grass thingies. Even if it doesn't kill them immediately , it could shorten their life a lot. Not worth the risk- you don't see it happen either.

 

And beware of touching the exposed metal of tea strainer if a home build applicato , as it can give you a bit of a nasty shock !

and if anyone has a pace maker would think twice about using one.

[billtee]

Thanks for all the tips, lads! As for tea granules staining the bottoms of building walls, wouldn't that be a good idea? Dirt, mud and general grot is often found along the bottom of walls, be they brick, stone or timber.

 

I decided to try out the tea granules on a spare bit of timber about six inches long. First I coated the timber with undiluted PVA, working it into two distinct areas - one fairly smooth, the other quite rough, then sprinkled the tea granules over everything, as thickly as possible, before setting it aside to let the PVA dry. The results were totally unexpected after I shook off the unadhered granules - there is next to no difference, despite the quite different amounts of PVA used.

 

Looks like I'll have to go down the route of air-drying modelling clay or similar. The problem is that my layout is packed away and stored vertically in the rear of my 'workshop' (garage 2!) when not erected in the dining room, so boards must be kept LIGHTweight, and plaster is heavy, cracks at the slightest twist or knock of the baseboard, and is usually white - all things which I don't want.

 

I am hoping to replicate the look of Bescot yard up near Birmingham, complete with oily puddles, rutted 'roads' between the tracks, litter accumulating at the base of wire fences, and bits and pieces everywhere. When I drive past there on the M6 I am a hazard to other drivers because my attention isn't on the road but on the tracks in the sidings beside the motorway (there's nowhere you can stop to get a decent photograph from any height except on the motorway itself!).

 

All this raises another issue - what type of fencing should I use around the TMD? The high, heavy thick steel security type fencing (dark green) with pointed tops to each vertical piece of steel, and much loved by BR (and the SVR beside Kidderminster station) for the past twenty years or so, or something more old-fashioned like galvanised steel posts holding (rusty) wire mesh, with optional barbed wire along the top? My layout is set in the years 2000-2010, so option 1 would seem the obvious choice, but I've seen many sidings with option 2 still in use, especially on heritage lines and less well-used lines like down near Penzance (though they have now been upgraded (?) to option 1).

 

All the best,

Bill

[Isambard Kingdom Brunel]

Instead of the crocodile clip connecting to a screw/track pin, as part of my home mad tea strainer/fly swat version I connected an electrical testing screwdriver which had a socket in the top into which fitted a plug with a wire on the end of which was a crocodile clip.

I removed the crocodile clip, connected that end to my fly swat and now can hold the fly swat in one hand and press the screwdriver (which had a nice pointed end) into the layout where I want the fibres to land.

 

I hope this makes sense it seems a bit longwinded

[billtee]

As an addendum to my post, I've begun constructing the low relief arched viaduct produced by Scalescenes.

 

My viaduct will be full depth and carrying a simple two lane road, with a footpath either side and everything covered in graffiti ( though not quite as much as that provided by Scalescenes!), and with some of the dark blue brick arches having workshops in them (also Scalescenes). My viaduct crosses my baseboard front to back in the usual manner, but it won't be a complete 'scenic break', just something to add interest to my TMD, and to act as an 'end' border to the TMD.

 

I've bought a plastic kit of 'vari-girders' from Wills, which will carry the road over the approach track to the TMD.

 

At the rear of the layout I will have another raised road running left to right, also with a dark blue brick retaining wall with arches underneath, though these arches will be 'solid' and the road above will be sloping downwards from the junction with the aforementioned viaduct from front to back. This will give me the opportunity to model a town scene which is on a hill.

 

But one thing puzzles me a bit - should I trim the height of this rear retaining wall off the bottom of the assembled 100mm high card wall, keeping the arches all the same, err, diameter, or would the arches get progressively smaller as the retaining wall gets lower?

 

All the best, and thinking caps on, please! And thank you for any help offered, of course.

Bill

[M Graff]

I've found no need to flatten the glue as I always go over my grass with my Airbrush to give it some variations (easier than using a lot of different static grasses), and when finished I spray some matte medium over it to kill the shine from both glue and grass.

[billtee]

Thank you, IKBrunel! I understand, and thought of a similar idea myself but using a thingy for getting stones out of horse's hooves, or whatever. My little screwdriver kit has just the thing, with the stem about 2mm diameter and tapering to a sharp point. A bradawl would be another option.

Bill

[billtee]

Hadn't thought of using my airbrush for flattening the grass, but a good idea, MGraff! Thank you ! Someone suggested sprinkling talc onto the wet PVA to stop the shine, but haven't tried that yet!

Bill

[billtee]

Tell2010, I saw on a YouTube video about grounding the tea strainer static gun after switching off so as not to get a jolt, and so that's what I'll do. I've ordered the tea strainer type static gun and should get it either tomorrow ir Friday.

Bill

[Dunmar]

Hi Bill.

I bought one of the 'tea strainer' type grass applicators from E-bay and have to say that for under £15 it's brilliant and does exactly wot it says on the tin. Having not used one before my mate gave me a demo - spread a thin layer of PVA onto your surface ( always good to paint a base green colour first! - I have also spread a layer of Woodland Scenics scatter before hand to help give it depth). I place a 20mm brass pin into surface and connect using crocodile clip to pin try to keep within a 4"/ 5 inch area ( although I have stretched this further - to get good results. Truly amazing! and much cheaper than Noch!.

Bill.

[billtee]

Got my tea-strainer type grass applicator, though I haven't yet tried it out because I didn't have any static grass, but that came today, so I'll be trying out the device as soon as possible (not tomorrow - I have hospital appt.!).

However, everybody's tips about applying grass are very helpful and most useful indeed. I don't know how I'd ever get on if it weren't for you blokes out there who seem to know all the answers. I've only been modelling for about twenty years, so I'm still a 'newbie', especially in the finescale detailing department.

All the very best to everyone, and have a great Christmas with your family, not modelling all the time! This Christmas for me is going to be very difficult because it will be the first Christmas without my wife who died last April (cancer!). I'll be doing LOTS of modelling to keep my mind off the happiness and jollity I would see on TV if it were on. Although I've been invited to friends for Christmas (which is very kind of them), I don't want to spoil their Christmas, so this time I'll spend it on my own (we didn't have any kids, unfortunately!), and then next Christmas get a bit more Christmas spirit into me.

Bill

[Guest baldrick25]

During the 'enforced' shutdown of the forum, I was watching a video of the building of the airport at Minataur Wunderland in Germany. Something I've mentioned before , but is worth re-newing the warning about using High voltage static grass applicators, and thats a warning to remove any electronics that are on the layout before using them. This includes DCC chips, transistorised power supplies, LED's , snap-its, Electronic circuit breakers and more.

In the video of the airport construction, the runway LED's , and it ran into thousands , were added early in the construction stages. Then , after using a commercial static grass applicator in the area between and around the runways , almost every one of them had to be removed and replaced- a lot in very difficult to access areas.

Take care , static and modern electronics are not the best of friends....

[HLT 0109]

Hi Baldrick25,

 

I have seen your earlier post(s) giving this warning but I have not seen or heard the warning in any marketing of the applicators or in the testing reports done by Model Rail. Do you (or anyone else for that matter) know whether the warning is given in the paperwork from the manufacturers? I ask because of the discussion to which I have contributed, about manufacturers' guarantees - it seems to me that, unless the manufacturer gives such a warning in the user instructions, he would be liable to reimburse the cost of replacing damaged equipment. I wouldn't want to try to persuade the manufacturer to pay for someone to carry out the work of replacing inaccessible lighting for me but I think he might be liable! Without such a warning, I would not have thought of the danger - fortunately, I do not have a static grass applicator. Might try a puffer bottle - though I guess that still produces static!

 

Harold.

[TomE]

Hello Bill.

 

I have also recently invested in a tea strainer type static grass applicator and have done a few experiments over Christmas. Not wanting to dive in and put grass and glue to layout straight away, I spread a thin layer of PVA onto a clear plastic wallet so I could simply peal off the test piece and position it on the layout to see if I was heading in the right direction.

 

The main thing I wanted to avoid was the uniform astro turf look you sometimes see when a single grass colour is used, so I used several different shades of grass, starting with a winter shade, then adding a darker green, and finally a shorter bright green shade to represent new growth coming through underneath. One thing I did find was I got a better effect adding the shorter grass after the longer strands. It sort of falls between them, where as if you add long stands on top of short, they have difficulty gripping the glue and tend to lay flatter.

 

Here's the grass applied to the plastic wallet:

 

 

and now pealed off in one piece:

 

 

And just rested on the layout:

 

 

 

I was quite pleased with the results, but I have aquired a few more shades of lighter browns to add in on the next trial,

 

Hope this helps in a small way!

 

Tom.