Hornby Siphon G New Release

[gwrrob]

After Hornby did an excellent job on this years horsebox I'm a bit disappointed with the newly release siphon G .

 

They have'nt touched the underframe and the couplings are the old type.At £18 I will be giving them a miss thanks.This is an old mould dating back to the early 80s I think and would have been a winner with a new underframe I'm sure.Am I being unfair in suggesting this should be in Railroad ?

 

http://www.ehattons.com/35988/Hornby_Model_Railways_R6538_GWR_Siphon_G_Bogie_Van/StockDetail.aspx

[Andy Y]

Am I being unfair in suggesting this should be in Railroad ?

 

I don't think you are at all Robin. There really is a confusion in standards when you see that for £18 compared to a Van C for £23. What's the layman to think?

[Guest dilbert]

The bodywork may be an old mould, but it's stood the test of time pretty well - a tribute to its Airfix GMR heritage (the bogies haven't changed either !!!).

 

I have one on order and have no intention of changing that.

 

I suppose it should be in the Railroad range. Regardless of the range it is in, Hornby could at least keep to prototype definition and place it in the coaching section... dilbert

[Oldddudders]

This is just a cash-cow to Hornby, much as the Southern bogie luggage van is. Within the confines of the freight (yes, I know, but the admiring dads and lads don't) vehicle market it is big, impressive, and has loads of 3D detail in the moulding. It is probably going to carry on selling regularly until the earth goes bang, frankly. In the present financial etc situation, why would Hornby do anything about it? I share the love of the Van C, owning half a dozen, but ISTR they have the clip-in axles being derided in the VEP thread? Unlike the Maunsell coaches they do not run at all freely.

[The Stationmaster]

I saw an Airfix one in auction lot yesterday - I wonder if the seller is now feeling a bit less than cheerful if he's found out the new one is no better and is going to cost nearly as much as his lot went for?

[Ozexpatriate]

I have no objections to a re-release of the old tooling, and (unlike the horsebox where we were told it was new tooling) I think this is what we all expected with this model. If Hornby wants to respin their old GWR tools in GWR livery with new numbers, I'll at least consider it.

 

As to the question of price, that's different. Each of us has a price threshold of what we are prepared to pay. Doubtless we can find an almost identical Siphon second-hand and renumber it ourselves. On eBay we might pay much less than £18, or not (as gets gleefully reported) as there will be people who pay even more!

 

It does raise the question of what constitutes a "Railroad Range" item. There's been a lot of discussion about this lately and we clearly don't yet have a decoder ring, but I'd like to offer a suggestion. What defines Railroad Range is not necessarily the moulds (though that is part of the equation). The most important determinate is which tampo printer is used.

 

I suspect that Sanda Kan has two different sets of printing equipment. The nice detailed printing (Hornby's high-end boiler bands are still unmatched by Bachmann) is the regular range. The less detailed printing is Railroad Range.

 

This distinction becomes clearer where the same tooling is used for both ranges. Models that demonstrate this are Tornado, County of Radstock (from the London 1908 pack) versus County of Bedford, and open wagons.

[frobisher]

II suspect that Sanda Kan has two different sets of printing equipment. The nice detailed printing (Hornby's high-end boiler bands are still unmatched by Bachmann) is the regular range. The less detailed printing is Railroad Range.

 

It's more the number of printing passes made I think than anything else that gives the "detail". On the Railroad stuff a single colour boiler band suffices, whereas for the main range it'll be two+ as a minimum.

[gwrrob]

 

As to the question of price, that's different. Each of us has a price threshold of what we are prepared to pay. Doubtless we can find an almost identical Siphon second-hand and renumber it ourselves. On eBay we might pay much less than £18, or not (as gets gleefully reported) as there will be people who pay even more!

 

 

I never paid more than £8 for a second hand model of these ,including one off a Rmweb member but as Andy says the van c is going for £23 .A price I would pay for a top class siphon G.

 

How much was a new one in 1980 ?

[Jules]

Well I'm quite happy I picked up an Airfix one for a tenner a few weeks ago

[Pennine MC]

It does raise the question of what constitutes a "Railroad Range" item.

 

It does, but it's becoming evident that there's no easy answer. I'm not a Siphon expert, but I thought the ex-Airfix G was a pretty decent model; a reissue of the Lima one with its BR bogies might warrant being Railroad fodder, but I'm not convinced this one does. I've certainly posted elsewhere citing Hornby's range and pricing structure as a confused mess, but I dont think this vehicle is a good example to illustrate it.

 

This is a van that's roughly equivalent to, and contemporary with, the ex-Mainline Stanier BG, for which Bachmann are currently asking £21. If it's thought to be Railroad fodder, does that also mean that Bachmann should split their range for similar reasons?

[Jamie]

£18 vs cost of another bogie van... say LMS 50' BG or Hawksworth BG which are about £28-32. Similarly old Bachmann Thompson brake - £18.

Cost looks par for the course in that context.

 

Weren't other ex-Lima toolings brought into both ranges - CCT comes to mind?

[Guest dilbert]

This is a van that's roughly equivalent to, and contemporary with, the ex-Mainline Stanier BG, for which Bachmann are currently asking £21. If it's thought to be Railroad fodder, does that also mean that Bachmann should split their range for similar reasons?

 

I'm not sure which Stanier BG you're referring to, but from a GW perspective (and PO wagons), Bachmann had already differentiated the old tooling from the new when they introduced the Blue Riband range and this was linked to catalogue n° ranges :

• 32-xxx for Blue Riband Locos (the rest is 31-xxx)
  
• 39-xxx for Blue Riband Coaches (the rest is 33-xxx 34-xxx)
  
• 37-xxx & 38-xxx for Blue Riband freight (the rest is 34-xxx 33-xxx)
  

so it doesn't in that respect require a range split... dilbert

 

 

edit to correct inverted ranges between coach and freight

[Pennine MC]

http://www.Bachmann.co.uk/image_box.php?image=images1/branchline/34-327D.jpg&cat_no=34-327D&info=0&width=650&height=241

 

34 327 Dil, and 34 328 for the Rail Blue whereas the Mk1s onwards are 39 xxx; you may have a point re- the split, though I reckon it's lost on most folk. I'd stil say they're comparable value though.

[Guest dilbert]

http://www.Bachmann....=650&height=241

 

34 327 Dil, and 34 328 for the Rail Blue whereas the Mk1s onwards are 39 xxx; you may have a point re- the split, though I reckon it's lost on most folk. I'd stil say they're comparable value though.

 

Just edited my original post to reflect the correct old original coach and wagon range numbers. I would agree on the comparable value statement.

 

Hornby's catalogue ref. n°s seems simpler but doesn't distinguish between old and new models. The last Siphon G they issued was to ref R6055A so in theory the latest should be R6055B except that it's been a few years since the previous release - so the latest is R6538. If issued in successive years a new code suffix would have applied (that's my theory in any case).. dilbert

[Pennine MC]

As I said earlier, I'm not that 'up' on Siphons although I did use an Airfix underframe under a kitbuilt Monster some years back. I wonder if the OP, or failing that someone else knowledgeable, can tell me what its shortcomings actually are?

 

As Ian (Duds) says, the framing is nicely done, the proportions (to me anyway) look generally Siphon G-ish, the finish I'd imagine is to the usual Hornby top notch standards, and almost by definition it doesnt suffer from any glazing issues, which are the usual principal reservation with coaching stock of this age.

[darren01]

HI

I saw this today in my local shop and well.....big hooks and nothing new.....and £18.00... sorry but this should be in the rail road range!.

[Mikkel]

I wonder if the OP, or failing that someone else knowledgeable, can tell me what its shortcomings actually are?

Not a direct answer to your question, but in case you or someone else is interested in giving the new release an "upgrading", here are a few notes by John Lewis on detailing the RTR siphons. (Note though that he is speaking in general terms for the Airfix G and H + Lima G).

http://www.gwr.org.uk/prosiphonmod.html

[gwrrob]

Not a direct answer to your question, but in case you or someone else is interested in giving the new release an "upgrading", here are a few notes by John Lewis on detailing the RTR siphons. (Note though that he is speaking in general terms for the Airfix G and H + Lima G).

http://www.gwr.org.u...osiphonmod.html

 

 

You've beat me to it Mikkel.Thanks. Hornby are happy to churn out this 30 year old model without improving the underframe and putting incorrect bogies and gangways on them.

[Oldddudders]

I bought a Siphon G on ebay some months back - didn't pay £18! - and as Pennine says, for those of us not ultra-conversant with the prototype, the shell captures the idea pretty well. I'd be happy to re-bogie, but John Lewis's excellent guide, which I found at the time through a previous RMWeb reference, left me slightly confuddled. Am I looking for 8' American or something else, and whose version should I be seeking, given limited skills with an iron? Oh, and new buffers would be good, too, as I think mine arrived with less than the magic number of 4....

 

All (printable) suggestions welcome - and unprintable ones might give us all a laugh!

[gwrrob]

If you're not happy to solder a pair of bogies up you could always fit a pair of Bachmann Collett bogies of the pressed steel type.Both Comet and MJT supply GW coach buffers.As you say the body is'nt that bad but I fitted new grabrails on my old ones to improve them.Still need to finish them though.

[buffalo]

... I'd be happy to re-bogie, but John Lewis's excellent guide, which I found at the time through a previous RMWeb reference, left me slightly confuddled...

Your best bet is to study the Slinn & Clarke GW Siphons book. The history of bogies on the O11 diagram built between 1913 and 1927 is quite complex. There are also several underframe differences between the various lots.All were gas lit except one 1925 lot which had electric lights. Most had 9' bogies, initially the volute spring type, but many were changed to 9' American or 9' coil spring plate bogies. Some were changed to heavy duty 7' bogies.

 

Your best bet, if you don't have access to the book, is to pick some numbers and ask here.

 

Nick

[Guest dilbert]

Mailcoach (ref S004) did a plastic kit of 9ft. American bogies.

 

This range is now managed by Coopercraft and these are listed on the website http://www.cooper-cr...ges.html#spares under the (un)appealing ref. 'BOGGWA' (about ¾ down the page)... dilbert

[bubbles2]

I was hoping for a revamp of the old Lima Siphon in similar vain to the GWR horsebox.

 

Here are some pics of a couple of the old Lima ones revamped with Blacksmith models etched grills.

 

 

 

 

The red one has the old Airfix (now Hornby) GWR bogies under it.

 

 

 

This one was at Laira in 1985.

 

[mark54]

Hornby could release the ex-Lima Syphon G with the correct bogies - 9ft pressed steel with short springs - as they now have these under the Hawksworth BG.

 

Mark

[Pennine MC]

Not a direct answer to your question, but in case you or someone else is interested in giving the new release an "upgrading", here are a few notes by John Lewis on detailing the RTR siphons.

 

Thanks, that's a good 'pocket guide'.

 

I do quite fancy the American bogies and I think I have a plastic set somewhere, but the Airfix ones arent a million miles out from what it should have - a similar compromise to some of the Hornby Gresleys, I believe. Underframe trussing is something I'll have to get my head around. Of the other shortcomings, a buffer change is also necessary for the Bachy ex-Mainline Stanier BG, and couplings are couplings - if you're changing them for something better it doesnt much matter what it comes with.

 

So overall I'd stand by my comparison, that it's a fair match for the Stanier as regards value for money. I am generally quite an advocate of the better Airfix and Mainline items from this period - they're generally pretty much 'there' in the shape department and I think folk are too keen to overlook them as 'not to current standards'. Many of them are models I'd imagine most would rather have around than not - certainly I dont recall anything like so much angst over the Stanier, or for that matter the Period 1 panelled stock that Bachmann still market.

 

Hornby are happy to churn out this 30 year old model without improving the underframe and putting incorrect bogies and gangways on them.

 

True enough, but a) they've never said they would improve it and b ) they're Hornby, it's what they do with acquired ranges. Dont get me wrong, I've said more than enough about Hornby's rolling stock policy myself and I havent suddenly done a U turn, but as I said earlier, there are far worse abominations in the range. I'm intrigued why there's so much opprobrium over this van?