Class 455 conversion from 2x150

[kintbury jon]

Morning everyone,

 

Just looking at the possibility of trying to do this to convert the 150 into a 455/9.

 

The DMSO body appears identical to the 455 DTSO of which there are 2 of. Regarding the centre coaches though these would prove more problematical. The two options I see are:

 

1) drilling holes into the sides to create the windows where the now defunct cabs would be, filling in as appropriate.

 

2) cutting and shutting two non driving ends (cutting at 1/3 and 2/3 intervals)

 

I know Bratchells produce a kit but it's a lot of money and I wonder whether the Bachmann components work out cheaper. The power unit for the 150 is powerful enough to power the 4 car unit.

 

Any one tried this or got any thoughts on this?

[Karhedron]

Is it possible? Certainly.

Will it be easier or cheaper than the Bratchell kit? Not so sure.

 

Cutting-n-shutting will probably be an easier way to get accurate vehicles but of course you then need 3 2-car donor sets instead of 2. Filling and drilling is harder although cheaper. Either way you will need a repaint of the modified vehicles.

 

The other thing to remember is that although the body-shells are the same, the underfloor equipment is quite different between EMUs and DMUs.

 

Personally I think that trying to carve up some Bachmann sprinters would be a challenging and time-consuming way to save a small amount of money. My advice would be to get the Bratchell kit. It will be quicker and easier and (unless you are very experienced at such conversions) you will probably get a better looking result out of it.

[kintbury jon]

You may well be right on costs. I thought that 3 units would be required even just to provide the three trailer chassis. But then you have three powered chassis of which two of them could be resold. Had hoped that this would work out significantly less than the Bratchell kit, you've also then got your powered unit.

 

Would be happy to mess around with the chassis cutting off the diesel related underframe parts. Not too worried how accurate it is, i'd quite like one to go with the CEP, VEP and EPB's that I have.

[Xerces Fobe2]

How about using a couple of the old Dapol Class 150's for this project, which I would assume you can pick up quite cheaply now that the Bachmann 150 is aviailable?

 

XF

[kintbury jon]

Yes but they look particularly rubbish! I'm hoping I could pick up 150's for the £40 mark second hand. May be a little optimistic though!

[CWJ]

Hi Jon,

 

I'm about to embark on a similar project (a Class 325 postal unit) based on a pair of Bachman Class 150s.

 

Advantages of this method:

• Excellent performance from the Bachmann chassis
  
• Potentially cheaper than the Bratchell kit (having said that, Bratchell's website implies that they only make finished models...)
  
• Finer detail, particularly around the bogies and windows (although I accept this may be personal taste/opinion)
  
• One of your two powered cars can be converted into a trailer fairly easily by removing the chassis and adding a simple syrene floor and bogies from someone like Comet with the original Bachmann sideframes stuck back on.
  
• You are left with lots of DMU bits to detail your old Lima 156!
  

Disadvantages (apart from the obvious cutting and shutting):

• The power chassis will fill one of the cars, as on the 150 as sold (not a problem for my 325 )
  
• You'll need to obtain power bogie sideframes (Hurst Models do something but it's not currently in stock so I've emailed them to ask when it will next be available)
  
• Two of the four 150 driving cabs will need to be made into 'inner' ends; I can think of four ways of doing this:
  
  • Obtaining a third donor 150
    
  • Casting your own using the 150 as a pattern
    
  • Finding a cheaper donor MkIII bodyshell such as a Hornby coach, and modifying accordingly.
    
  • Use the existing cab end, filled with syrene and filler until it looks about right. This will be difficult in the roof area.
    

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[kintbury jon]

Many thanks for that Will. I might give it a go, I fancy a challenge for the christmas hols (though i'll need to get hold of some!)

[CWJ]

Your £40 estimate is indeed a bit on the optimistic side; I was very lucky and picked one up second-hand at an exhibition for £54 but the cheapest new ones are around £60 (this is very reasonable when you consider that you could pay twice as much for a pair of Hornby HST power cars which are smaller and don't have as much glazing or interior detail). Don't pay more than £70 unless you're particularly keen to support your local model shop or something.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

 

PS. Please post some photos of progress, I'd like to see how you get on!

[kintbury jon]

Yes - a quick look finds 150/2 for £59 new. Might have a look around...

[BernardTPM]

How about using a couple of the old Dapol Class 150's for this project

Yes but they look particularly rubbish!

Right decision - The old Dapol 150 shell was too closely based on the 155 so the shape was severely compromised from the outset. Both the Bratchell and Bachmann Mk.3 M.U. shells are the correct outline. In N there isn't the Bratchell option, of course, just the Bachmann/Farish, so 3 150s for a 455 (or 317, etc.).

[CWJ]

Sorry, I keep adding comments, but I've just remembered: make sure you choose the best donor units. The 150/1 has no NRN aerial on the roof, which is good as it would be a pig to remove whilst retaining the roof ribbing. The 150/2 has sliding cab doors (as opposed to normal hinged doors on the 150/1) so this may be better for your EMU (I don't know the prototype too well but you'll know which is best).

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[kintbury jon]

I would definitely need 150/2 bodies for the outer two coaches. The inner two probably wouldn'tmatter whether thy were 150/1's or 150/2's. Tempting to get a couple of the cheaper DCC set ones (if I can find them - there was one on RMweb Marketplace but can't see it now) and a single 150/2 unit.

[Karhedron]

In N there isn't the Bratchell option, of course, just the Bachmann/Farish, so 3 150s for a 455 (or 317, etc.).

A shame that Farish do not produce dummy units like Dapol do as this would make such conversions a little more affordable. I am slightly suprised that Bachmann Farish have not produced any more MUs based on the Mk3 suburban bodyshell. They have discovered that EMUs sell and are busy tooling up all-new desiros. A little work to produce some centre cars could give them 317s, 318s and 455s. New front ends would open up the whole range of EMUs from the 1980s.

 

My only guess is that it is not as easy as I have made it sound or they would have done it already.

[kintbury jon]

Agrees, perhaps if I start caving up some 150 bodies, they'll announce one!

[CWJ]

Agrees, perhaps if I start caving up some 150 bodies, they'll announce one!

Oh definitely. If two of us start carving up 150s then they'll be twice as likely to release RTR EMUs!

 

I've started a thread on mine here if anyone's interested: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/49392-class-325-royal-mail-emu-in-00-gauge/ - hope you don't mind me mentioning it here as it will have much in common with yours.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[kintbury jon]

I don't mind though i'm not at all ready to start!

[pheaton]

Hi Jon,

 

I'm about to embark on a similar project (a Class 325 postal unit) based on a pair of Bachman Class 150s.

 

Advantages of this method:

• Excellent performance from the Bachmann chassis
  
• Potentially cheaper than the Bratchell kit (having said that, Bratchell's website implies that they only make finished models...)
  
• Finer detail, particularly around the bogies and windows (although I accept this may be personal taste/opinion)
  
• One of your two powered cars can be converted into a trailer fairly easily by removing the chassis and adding a simple syrene floor and bogies from someone like Comet with the original Bachmann sideframes stuck back on.
  
• You are left with lots of DMU bits to detail your old Lima 156!
  

Disadvantages (apart from the obvious cutting and shutting):

• The power chassis will fill one of the cars, as on the 150 as sold (not a problem for my 325 )
  
• You'll need to obtain power bogie sideframes (Hurst Models do something but it's not currently in stock so I've emailed them to ask when it will next be available)
  
• Two of the four 150 driving cabs will need to be made into 'inner' ends; I can think of four ways of doing this:
  
  • Obtaining a third donor 150
    
  • Casting your own using the 150 as a pattern
    
  • Finding a cheaper donor MkIII bodyshell such as a Hornby coach, and modifying accordingly.
    
  • Use the existing cab end, filled with syrene and filler until it looks about right. This will be difficult in the roof area.
    

Hope this helps.

 

 

Cheers,

 

Will

 

 

Surely the Hornby/Bachmann networker would be a better base for this unit? although the Hornby one does has the "iffy" power unit granted.

[kintbury jon]

 

 

Surely the Hornby/Bachmann networker would be a better base for this unit? although the Hornby one does has the "iffy" power unit granted.

 

No, the 325 was based on the 319 even though it had networker ends.

[pheaton]

aha explains the more box like shape then....

[AMJ]

Daft thought, why not wait until the 'new' catalogue is out. As many of these body styles were used between different units it might be feasible that Bachmann have considered the mileage that they can get by doing other units.

[SRman]

Yes; using the basic body shell and chassis, they could do classes 317, 318, 319, 320, 321 and 322, 455 and 456, plus possibly the 325 (not sure of this one). Of course, there are many variations on window sizes and spacings, underbody gear and roof details but the basis is there.

[kintbury jon]

Can I just check on the class 150 roof. Is it a separate piece of plastic from the bodyside (as is on the CEP and EPB) or is the body a whole one piece unit.

 

I do take what you say though AMJ, it may well be worth waiting until February. I do have a tendency to jump into projects wthout thinking them through properly!

[CWJ]

The 150s have a one-piece body and roof. I wouldn't recommend trying to seperate them either, as there's no cant rail gutter to hide the join!

 

It would be great if Bachmann were to produce some 2nd generation EMUs, but even if there's your dream Class 455 in their 2012 catalogue, you can be assured it won't be available until about 2014. Not a whinge about Bachmann, but that's just the way the industry works

 

With the recent boom in models of electric traction, firstly DC but now moving towards AC with Classes 86, 350 and now 85, I imagine it's only a matter of time before the EMU gap is filled. As we said before, the more hours we put into scratchbulding, the more likely an RTR model is!

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[kintbury jon]

OK, some progress has been made. Thanks to the Forum, I have 3 class 150 kits heading my way. Plan is to use two DMSO bodies to make the DTSO's. The plan was then to modify the other coaches by drilling in windows as appropriate.

 

However, I contacted Bratchell to enquire about the availability of spare parts. I have received a package today which consists of:

 

4x bodies for the centre coach (to cover both coaches)

2x roof

2x gangway ends

2x motor bogie frames

 

Whilst this has increased the price at the moment, I hope that I will be able to get a little money back by selling the unwanted parts.

 

Total amount spent so far is £120 which is still 60 or so quid less than the product (of which the 455/9 is not available any more)

 

Having thoughts about motors again. The spare Bachmann 150 power unit has found its way into a Lima based Mk1 4REP. The sheer power of it was demonstrated by its ability to haul a 12 coach train. Makes me wonder whether a better option would be to power it with something less intrusive.

 

I wonder whether a 4CEP power unit would be worth a try (I assume the same in the 108 and the 2EPB). Could also try the 73 power bogie though I am aware of its limitations.

[CWJ]

Good progress Jon, you sound to be awash with MkIII bodyshells! Regarding power units, if you're looking for something less intrusive than the Class 150 chassis (not difficult...) then I'd suggest either the new Hornby power bogie (Class 73, Class 153, etc.) or the High Level Kits 'LoRider' (www.highlevelkits.co.uk). I have never used the latter myself, (although High Level products have a very good reputation) so you might want to check the haulage capacity with someone who has.

 

Cheers,

 

Will