OldNick Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 At the Leamington & Warwick society exhibition we carry out an arrival survey of postcode 'outers' - i.e. the first half of a postcode, to determine where people come from, and an exit survey asking a number of questions about the show, and how they found out about it. The problem is to keep the exit survey short and snappy, and still get useful data from it. From last year's, it appears that returning visitors are the largest group, with model magazines, then the internet, then posters before we get down to local papers. as their source of information. Not surprisingly the internet is a rising trend. Oddly, looking at this thread I've noticed that we don't offer flyers at other exhibitions as a defined answer. Looking at what brings preople in, most people say layouts rather than trade, with our second hand stall coming third, but with quite a high following. Things which have been tried and been found less cost-effective include advertisements in local pantomime programmes, to try to attract families, and local newspaper advertisements outside the immediate area, hoping to draw in more general attendees (as against specialist modellers) from a wider catchment area. I'm sure our exhibition manager will be able to provide an update to this in a few weeks time - our next exhibition is only just over two weeks away (21st-22nd Jan at Stineleigh in Warwickshire - blatant plug over.) As an attendee, I'm largely driven by internet information - principally ukmodelshop & here, but I tend to use flyers as an advanced reminder. Ten years ago I'd have said that the listings in Railway Modeller were my main source, and I still get the impression for many people that they are. I always check that our advertisements and listings are in the trade press, but rarely actually use other people's adverts to remind me of their exhibitions. What I would say is that some shows have very recogniseable images - the Stafford show is particulalry good on this score - so their advertisements in the trade press and i other show guides tend to stand out to me, and therefore remind me that it's their time of year coming up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2012 If so, what do you find is the best at getting people through the door? That can depend upon which type of visitor you're looking for. The likes of the NEC, Expo and gauge specific shows will probably have a high percentage of visitors that are railway modellers, so they will get the best return from advertising within model railway publications. Club shows will vary from the likes of Manchester/Wigan with a good percentage of visiting modellers, so will advertise within the trade, but also locally (maybe Andy C or eaton could comment with numbers?) Moving down to the smaller club and "chuch hall" (to use someone's description) type shows wherethe makeup will predominantly be local population and will benefit from lot of local advertsing with posters in shop windows for example. Radio/TV reaches the largest numbers, but can be expensive. Even local paper advertising isn't always the cheapest, but an editorial article featuring something of "local" interest - especially if i's a locally based layout can be worthwhile. TBH, any publicity (as long as it isn't too bad) is good publicity. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Has anyone mentioned ukmodelshops.com? That features a show directory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 That can depend upon which type of visitor you're looking for. The likes of the NEC, Expo and gauge specific shows will probably have a high percentage of visitors that are railway modellers, so they will get the best return from advertising within model railway publications. Club shows will vary from the likes of Manchester/Wigan with a good percentage of visiting modellers, so will advertise within the trade, but also locally (maybe Andy C or eaton could comment with numbers?) Moving down to the smaller club and "chuch hall" (to use someone's description) type shows wherethe makeup will predominantly be local population and will benefit from lot of local advertsing with posters in shop windows for example. Radio/TV reaches the largest numbers, but can be expensive. Even local paper advertising isn't always the cheapest, but an editorial article featuring something of "local" interest - especially if i's a locally based layout can be worthwhile. TBH, any publicity (as long as it isn't too bad) is good publicity. Cheers, Mick Well spotted. Most of the posts on here have concentrated on how to get modellers through the door, but every visitor is important. They all help to balance the books. I have found that modellers tend to know what's going on via magazine diaries, internet sites and word of mouth. There is little to be gained by paying for advertising in the model railway press because most of the readers will already know about your show. In the pre-internet days. magazine adverts made sense because they could include information which was not covered in the basic diary entry. Nowadays such details can be covered online at much lower cost. Three years ago I diverted the publicity budget for the Calne Show (21 & 22 January www.calnemrs.org.uk) to local advertising in newspapers and - this is the big one - putting leaflets through letterboxes. The attendance went up by 50%. We did the same in 2010 and 2011 and the attendance kept on rising, not by as much, but a show which used to attract just over 1,000 visitors is now approaching the 2,000 mark. It's not easy getting club members to do the job and I know that I have a lot of backside kicking to do over the next two weeks to get this year's 15,000 leaflets out, but most members do seem to have grasped the fact that every pound we take at the door is a pound less we have to put on their subscriptions. As for surveys at exhibitions, I gave those up years ago because they were asking the wrong question to the wrong people. I want to find out from the people who didn't come to the show: 1. Did you know about the show? 2. If you didn't, would you have come if you had known about it? 3. (The key one.) How could we have let you know about it? It is the answers to question 3 which will determine where my next publicity budget is spent. Geoff Endacott Exhibition Manager, Trainwest (www.trainwest.org.uk) and Calne MRS (www.calnemrs.org.uk) . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Actual figures are in excess of 20,000 unique visitors per month with most of those visiting the site on multiple occasions. Just out of interest, what are the readerships of the magazines, and would anyone care to guess how many "railway modellers" (however you define that)there are in the UK? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted January 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2012 Model Rail is around the 30K mark, RM was around 50K last time I checked. My Railway Modellers guess would be around 100K edit: RM currently 44K:- http://www.abc.org.uk/Products-Services/Product-Page/?tid=342 Model rail 29,817:- http://www.abc.org.uk/Products-Services/Product-Page/?tid=12377 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 As Mick suggested above, the same publicity different approaches and advertising methods conveying subtly different messages may be required for different audiences. Type 1 is to get this years visitor to return: As Mick suggested above, the same publicity campaign may not work for every show. And even for the same show, different approaches and advertising methods conveying subtly different messages may be required for different audiences. As the person who somehow got landed with the job for Kenton’s favourite show Hull, this is how we break down the market. No 1 is to get this year’s visitor to return. The main thing needed here is clear notice of the date and then gentle reminders throughout the year… For the last few years we have had a banner above the exit giving basic details of date/location and a few ‘headline’ layouts, plus at least a couple of mentions in the show guide. Last year we also added basic A6 size flyers with similar basic details, which by my reckoning were taken by well over 1 in 10 visitors. Posters are produced in A4 & A3 sizes (below) and displayed at whatever shows members visit throughout the year and any others where we can persuade traders or the Exhibition host club to put them up (for the 2012 show these first appeared at Warley and Retford 2011 just one week after Hull 2011!). A5 handbills are also produced: these generally look the same as the posters on the front with additional detail on the back. These start off with a first edition early in the year with just basic details and develop through the year with greater detail added as available. No 2 is the enthusiast who has probably heard of the show but not necessarily visited before. The aim here is to give them reason to visit (i.e. tell them what is in the show to interest them). The A5 handbills mentioned above have a list on the back of all the confirmed layouts with scale, gauge, period and a one-line description plus a list of Traders and Societies. The same details will also appear on the Club website (the address of which is incidentally given on all posters/handbills, and see my signature below) No 3 is the local general public. The primary message being that there is a show. Anything too far in advance of the show date is probably wasted on this audience so posters will appear in local shops etc around 4-5 weeks before the show, but the main way of communication to a mass audience in this area still seems to be the local daily newspaper, where a advert will be placed mid week leading up to the show One final thought, is keep reviewing what you do and do not assume that you can just repeat the same thing year after year and it will continue to work. We did seem to get stuck in a bit of a rut with falling attendances for a while with the EM doing the same thing ‘because that’s what he’d always done’ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisR Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 What publicity methods do you generally use? Down south in Burgess Hill, we use a variety of publicity methods to get punters though the door. It took a short while after I became the club's exhibition manager for RMWeb to get on my radar (having come back into the hobby from some time away) and use this. We also use the monthly periodicals, trying to time it so that the data appears in the magazines about a month before the exhibition: and not paying for advertisements as these don't seem now to add to the footfall through the door. We publicise on other web sites - CMRA, UKModelShops, ModelR and any others that I come across during the year Flyers at other exhibitions (both A5 and A6) are also used which I have been told by attendees at our exhibition are useful for putting up on club room notice boards so several people get sight of the *basic* details. Now that the internet is so widely used and technology has advanced considerably, we are putting a QR code on the flyers so anyone with an i-phone can 'photograph' it and be taken directly to the club's web site. For this year, we are also having an entry in the local freebie magazines which get delivered to all households in the local area: we will have to wait and see whether this has any effect on patrons. Do you do any kind of research to determine which is the most effective? At last year's exhibition we did carry out a visitor survey on where they first saw the exhibition advertised, which revealed that the monthly periodicals still came out top of the list. As to which were unsuccessful, every medium had at least one person through the door as a result of that particula piece of advertising - including the Town Crier 'calling' round the town on the day of the exhibition! While we won't be doing this every year, taking note of some of the comments above will I'm sure lead us to determining what questions to ask in any future surveys. If so, what do you find is the best at getting people through the door? Not clashing with a major football tournament would help, but not to a significant extent... Quite a few attendees have been returning visitors, and there is anecdotal evidence that visiting exhibitors for a exhibition in the past have been impressed and returned again in following years. That I know is once they have seen the event as a result of coming as an exhibitor and says nothing about the quality of the publicity material we have produced that might have persuaded them to come in the first place. I take note from earlier comments about how much to include - but even these vary on the order and actual layout content that should be included. Putting in every layout description would make for a very long post and I wonder whether those reading it would have the concentration to go right to the end. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Returning visitors - the entry ticket to Trainwest (www.trainwest.org.uk) is a voucher which gives £1 discount on admission the following year. Most importantly it gives the dates of the next show. I am surprised that no one else has copied it because we get lots of them back each year. Many have drawing pin holes, blu-tac or staples. That shows people have them pinned to noticeboards of stuck to walls. It works. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 2, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 2, 2012 Returning visitors - the entry ticket to Trainwest (www.trainwest.org.uk) is a voucher which gives £1 discount on admission the following year. Most importantly it gives the dates of the next show. That's a darned good idea - I'm taking that to my exhibition committee. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyShoe Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 That's a darned good idea - I'm taking that to my exhibition committee. Cheers, Mick No garunetee they wouldn't come back anyway so you might not make any extra money. To be honest I'm either coming back or not, a £1 discount (or even £3 as there are three of us) is probably not changing the direction of travel. Identifying your audience is critical. Local papers etc are often short of content... offer them copy and pictures for free... Provide it sufficiently far in advance that they can use it in a quiet spell. (Thats what RM are doing for exhibitors so if you are local aim local). I've been to 4 shows this year 2 I stumbled on in the car - so road side signs are important. I may never have headed out to go to a show but in the end I went... Signpost from main roads. Watch over glossying the publicity. One big show seemed to be makign themselves sound more exciting than the Warley etc (maybe they are) but I felt I was in for disapointment after attending one of the Hornby sponsored events where the same thing seemed to apply. If you are a small local group the publicity doesn't have to be amazing. If you want national visitors... ...it probably should be. But make sure the event stacks up to the pubclicity. Don't turn any route of free publciity away - so clearly all the websites and fora. But don't forget twitter and facebook. Twiitter is an amazing tool, and you'll be surprised how many people have an account. Get all your club to get an acount and follow you, ask exhibitors to do the same and trade. Then tweet small snippets of information in the lead up to the event (eg. Layout XYZ confirmed for the ABC Show (16-17 July)) so that people have it constantly exposed to them. Your followers should be encouraged to retweet that information in theory everyone knows everyone else in the world through just 7 links... At the event you can also tweet programming information. eg. In 5 ,minutes time Mr X is sstarting his amaing demonstration of ballasting. All free. Finally - don't dismiss the value of a QR Code on a poster, flyer or whatever else. Thats the funny 2D Barcode (they are free) that links a smartphone to a webpage (your webpage). For some reason people will be more likely to scan the QR than type the address... If I was to ciriticise Hulls Advert (Dare I!) as its the only example here - it doesn't tell me how many layouts... an idea of scale (which is clearly fairly large judging by the discussions) would help me know if its worth travelling further too than I normally would. Oh - and several people have said they come to shows first for trade second for layouts. Never done that, doubt I ever will. I can see/speak to trade any time I want afterall they want my money not the other way round. I want to see the layouts first and foremost because I cant see them anywhere else. Then I want to be able to learn from the exhibitors then I may put my hand in my pocket and see if I can buy a bargain... but I can always get that bargain next week and the postage will likely be cheaper than the fuel & entry fee... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 If I was to ciriticise Hulls Advert (Dare I!) as its the only example here - it doesn't tell me how many layouts... an idea of scale (which is clearly fairly large judging by the discussions) would help me know if its worth travelling further too than I normally would. Fair comment SS, That is just the current (first) edition for the A4 poster. We develop them through the year and later ones will include further details - prices and opening times for example are also missing from that version... The same layout is also used for the front of the A5 handbills which on the back do list the details you ask for of Layouts (including scale, gauge, period and a one-line description; not just the name), Traders and Societies, plus a map of how to find the venue... Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Bigcheeseplant Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Interestingly I have just found one of my layouts images being used to advertise a show its not, (and never was going to be), appearing at. http://bawdsey.wordpress.com/ Needless to say, I shall be 'following it up'. Are you going to say which show? I must admit Its a bit naughty to use a layout that is not going to be at the show and even worse use photos without the permission of the photographer. With layouts that are booked to apear at Railex I always ask if they can supply me with photographs for publicity, normally a year in advance of the show. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galtee More Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 And whilst we're on the subject of shows, exhibition guides sized at A5 are a darned sight easier to access at a show and more pocketable than an A4 guide, Not really on topic, but deserves an answer ! The NOTTINGHAM East Midlands EXHIBITION produces an A4 Exhibition Guide. We have to because of the size of the event. Our current Guide runs to 44-48 pages. Imagine how thick it would be if we went back to an A5 Guide, certainly not very practical for stuffing in your pocket ! Ian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm not sure how big a show needs to be to justify a quality guide like the Notts show but it does make a good souvenir and also if available in advance for larger shows a good method of planning your visit. The Warley guide, while good for such a vast show, isn't one of my favourites though as they separate the photos and trackplans from the layout descriptions which makes it poor for future reference. A strong website that's regularly updated with additions to the show and info is a definite plus for advance publicity and doesn't need to be huge. The Bentley groups Trainwest site shows a nice concise listing of content and directions all on one page. While it would be nice for every group to have a talented graphic designer to make the exhibition site really slick I think simple clear info and a few good pictures do the job and are much better than those where whoever did it decided they needed to use every font colour and size that they could. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I think simple clear info and a few good pictures do the job and are much better than those where whoever did it decided they needed to use every font colour and size that they could. Absolutely agree. The show guides are not so much marketing brochures as souvenirs and pocket guides. The essentials are a map of the show's stands/halls and an identifier to locate a layout/trader on the "map". The important details of scale/gauge/size/era/region, a schematic layout plan, a brief description (leave me some questions to ask, please), and finally contact details (website/email). Anything else, including photos is just extra and not essential. All that can be done without colour. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Absolutely agree. The show guides are not so much marketing brochures as souvenirs and pocket guides. The essentials are a map of the show's stands/halls and an identifier to locate a layout/trader on the "map". The important details of scale/gauge/size/era/region, a schematic layout plan, a brief description (leave me some questions to ask, please), and finally contact details (website/email). Anything else, including photos is just extra and not essential. All that can be done without colour. I'm not too keen on having contact details in the guide (apart from a general idea as to where the layout is based), as if you know you need to contact the exhibitor you can ask them directly for an info sheet or track them down over then internet. Another reason not to have a glossy (and expensive) guide is savvy shows will have quite a few layouts in magazines that month...!! A brief description, trackplan, a few photos and traders adverts will suffice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 I'm not too keen on having contact details in the guide (apart from a general idea as to where the layout is based), as if you know you need to contact the exhibitor you can ask them directly for an info sheet or track them down over then internet. Assuming they all have an internet presence, then it is about as public as it can be. Like the issue of copyright owner it is very important that some form of contact can be made beyond the show especially as not all owners are on operator duty" all day (and no one would expect them to be). Many a time I ask someone if they own a layout only to be told "I'm only the dumb mutt operator stand in for a tea/lunch/bio break". Or to ask before taking photos to be told "It's not mine, but I expect its OK". Often the owner/builder is the only one who actually knows the answer to a question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterl Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 One point that I may have missed, but if you have your own website try and keep it up to date and put a link on here and else where. Yes the Hull Show web site has been updated today and further updates will be done as the information becomes available. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Apart from the courtesy of asking and not blinding operators and fellow customers, a layout owner is unlikely to be able to refuse photography if they so desired. If the layout is being exhibited in a public place, (normal exhibition), then the photographer may take the picture regardless. I'm not sure what context Kenton is using 'copyright', but its worth pointing out that legally the layout operators who have 'no pictures, images of this layout are our copyright', on their layout in a normal show environment, are doing it into the wind. And yup,if you have a web site, keep it current. Unfortunately (and thinking of the point you made earlier), some people live by a separate set of standards and on previous occasions I've seen photos of my layouts used in publicity material or in magazines, I can't say either of those is a problem except for the fact it is courteous to ask permission first, as the exhibitor might just be able to supply something better than a snapshot taken at a show using the camera's flash. The main culprit has been an association I'm currently a member of, although it didn't occur to me at the time what would happen if I decided not to renew and they still used examples of my work, considering we never had anything along the lines of a verbal contract for their use in place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ELTEL Posted January 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 17, 2012 I think the use of RMweb keeps everyone informed and should be kept up to date as things happen. We are lucky at Stafford in that we have a webmaster who is really on the ball and together with the RMweb information is always up to date. A couple of years back we were updating our website every two/three hours with snow forecasts, something we could do with out. We use the AA to signpost our exhibition and it is one of the most cost efective methods of attracting local support. As some one once said all publicity is good publicity. Terry Robinson Exhibition Manager Stafford Rialway Circle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 At a normal exhibition, Apart from the courtesy of asking and not blinding operators and fellow customers, a layout owner is unlikely to be able to refuse photography if they so desired. I have only been refused once. Even then it was more of a request to come back at a quieter time and a scene would be willingly staged for the camera. Generally, I would say that the vast majority of layout owners are only too willing to have their layout receiving attention. If they don't then I can't understand what they are doing exhibiting in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I have only been refused once. Even then it was more of a request to come back at a quieter time and a scene would be willingly staged for the camera. Generally, I would say that the vast majority of layout owners are only too willing to have their layout receiving attention. If they don't then I can't understand what they are doing exhibiting in the first place. For the reasons I've stated above, namely having a crap photo appear in print, and also being blinded by someone letting off a flashgun just as you're leaning over to uncouple. Trying to take photos at a busy show is like crossing a dual carriageway, best done when it's quiet. You need a tripod, you need to white balance every shot, and most importantly, you need the trains to be stationary....! Operators who stage photos for one photographer whilst a dozen punters are leaning on the barriers wondering why nothing is moving aren't very popular. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Eric Morecambe had the answer. Stop what you are doing, face the camera and grin. Then the next operator does the same, and the next, and the next... Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2012 and also being blinded by someone letting off a flashgun just as you're leaning over to uncouple. That's the real problem for operators. A courteous request for permission will always get a positive answer from me and my team. O/T story. I was operating Skipton's "Lofthouse" many years ago at York and there was a guy with a flashgun that seemed to be the size and power of a small arc lamp and he was happily snapping away with no regard to the operating team, who were becoming very annoyed and about to have words with him. I had travelled to York on my motorbike and quick as a flash (no pun intended) the crash helmet was donned and I popped up behind the layout just in time for another atomic powered flash going off. I quickly removed the helmet before the photter had chance to emerge from behind his viewfinder. However a number of other onlookers had seen what had happened and were falling about with a great deal of mirth. Our photographer was completey unaware. So, if that photographer is reading this, please can I have a copy of me behind the layout? Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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