Hydraulics (was Warships) in the north west

[keefer]

All the North British built Warships, D833-D865 passed through the North West via the WCML and Crewe at least once in their short lives, on their delivery run to the WR from Glasgow.

 

Regards

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

can't link to the pic directly, but scroll half-way down for new D855 heading south through wigan with D6324 (after repair) in tow

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/page32.htm

Edited February 27, 2013 by keefer

[TheSignalEngineer]

I had a browse through some old magazines today. Couldn't see a reference to the Edge Hill Hymek, but there were some gaps in the sequence. Hymeks outside the WR seemed to generate reports almost whenever they happened, even reaching Birmingham. There were a few instances af them reaching Crewe, usually on specials. Railway World reported that on 23 September 1970 a unique sight was provided at Stockport Edgeley when 7083 arrived on a freight.

[Michael Delamar]

D868 Zephyr at Crewe 1963

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blue-diesels/8594012025/

[creweboy]

Westerns at Crewe in the 1970s; Clearly remember seeing 1025 Western Guardsman on a Crewe bound mixed freight on the Shrewsbury line at Wistaston (nr Gresty Lane), date not so clear it possibly Spring/early summer 1975, though there is a chance it was 1974 no earlier though! My uncle was a driver at Crewe and reckoned Westerns were rare but not unknown in the 1970s, usually dispatched straight back light engine!

 

 

On Flickr, somewhere there is a picture of a Hymek in the Bay used by Cardiff trains.  

[kevinlms]

 My uncle was a driver at Crewe and reckoned Westerns were rare but not unknown in the 1970s, usually dispatched straight back light engine!

Yes, they must of been considered nothing but a nuisance, trying to find trained staff - or more correctly, those that admitted it! No wonder the LNWR wanted nothing to do with a break of gauge station & went to a lot of trouble to keep the GWR broad guage out!

[byron]

Yes, they must of been considered nothing but a nuisance, trying to find trained staff - or more correctly, those that admitted it! No wonder the LNWR wanted nothing to do with a break of gauge station & went to a lot of trouble to keep the GWR broad guage out!

 

I have mentioned it before, when I was in Stoke Control in the 60's & 70's, there was a chronic shortage of class 47 diesels - the "booked" loco's for Broad Gauge - LM inter regional freights. Just to keep trains running, you used what was available. If it was possible to replace a 47 with traction that came back "LXC" then you had another chance of keeping the job running. We (OK, I was) were just as guilty, dropping a 40 onto trains into Broad Gauge territory. Sometimes the ploy did not work, and a driver was found that knew the traction. Do not forget that 52's were built at Crewe, and quite a few men knew them. One odd fact being if the driver was working his rest day, he tended to sign more routes and traction than on a normal (just what were they?) day. Drivers also moved about the country, as I recall when we lost a 40 for a couple of days because an ex Bescot driver went native and moved to Severn Tunnel Junction.

Only now can I see the good times that those days were. At the time it was very stressful - to put it mildly.

 

Mike

[Enterprisingwestern]

From "The Railway Observer" January 1968;

 

STOCKPORT

In the early hours of 8th November, (1967), D7082 arrived at Edgeley Junction on a Barry Docks - Healey Mills freight, and returned light to Hereford.

 

Also in the 1967/68 RO's there are numerous mentions of the NBL warships, the plans for reallocation to, and their working around the West Midlands.

 

Mike.

[Swindon 123]

From "The Railway Observer" January 1968;

 

STOCKPORT

In the early hours of 8th November, (1967), D7082 arrived at Edgeley Junction on a Barry Docks - Healey Mills freight, and returned light to Hereford.

 

Also in the 1967/68 RO's there are numerous mentions of the NBL warships, the plans for reallocation to, and their working around the West Midlands.

 

Mike.

 

Hereford men had quite a traction knowlage. As well as the usual WR suspects, because of the interegional connection they learnt 25, 40, 45/6 and some the 24's from the LM. Depending where they might have been on the WR bearing in mind the old WR transfer and promotion policy, some also knew classes 14, 22 both 42 & 43, 52 and at least one knew the Blue Pulmans. The Barry Docks Banana Boat specials used to run with whatever was to hand, usually a Hymec and this sometimes took them to exotic places. I know of a least one Hereford traincrew that got as far as Healey Mills before someone called time on their escapades. Some Hereford men signed Speke Jcn at one time when the freightliners started, so the appearence of exotic WR traction in the NW would occur from time to time.

 

Paul J.

[byron]

Hereford men (and for the same reason, Birkenhead men) were indeed a special breed. They were reliable, and within reason game for anything. Their shed was under threat of closure (this is in the 60's and early 70's) and were out to prove themselves. I recall many instances of both depot's men pulling the railway out of the deepest mire, when lesser souls would not have cared.

I still have fond memories of some of the exploits, and the deepest respect for the traincrew of both sheds.

 

Mike

[The Stationmaster]

Hereford men (and for the same reason, Birkenhead men) were indeed a special breed. They were reliable, and within reason game for anything. Their shed was under threat of closure (this is in the 60's and early 70's) and were out to prove themselves. I recall many instances of both depot's men pulling the railway out of the deepest mire, when lesser souls would not have cared.

I still have fond memories of some of the exploits, and the deepest respect for the traincrew of both sheds.

 

Mike

A number of depots had this sort of reputation over the years - the top link at Radyr (known locally as 'the Dirty Dozen) were definite go anywhere merchants, Didcot took the same attitude when the depot was under threat (and after) and saved it as a result, Eastleigh had a habit of going all over the place and had a SPAD record to prove the extent to which their Road Knowledge didn't always match their ambition, while Saltley men weren't called seagulls for nothing.

[Swindon 123]

Hereford men (and for the same reason, Birkenhead men) were indeed a special breed. They were reliable, and within reason game for anything. Their shed was under threat of closure (this is in the 60's and early 70's) and were out to prove themselves. I recall many instances of both depot's men pulling the railway out of the deepest mire, when lesser souls would not have cared.

I still have fond memories of some of the exploits, and the deepest respect for the traincrew of both sheds.

 

Mike

 

I worked from there for 26 years, all of them under threat of closure for one reason or another. I was declared redundant for all of 2 weeks in the early 90's until someone saw sense. I finally retired in 2010 and the depot is still going, still under threat of closure, but its in just the right location for the work it has at the moment. Mike you are right about the attitude of the men. Only under extreme circumstances did you bail out on a job, usually you stuck with it, generally because you got home quicker working than waiting for the next passenger. Not the same now because most turns are long anyway and once you get to 11 hours enough is enough and the "get a taxi" call goes out.

 

Paul J.

[Neil55002]

maybe of interest Jubilee & Warship at Crewe

 

Jubilee 45577 Bengal & Diesel Hydraulic D801 Vanguard (i think)  at Crewe station, were Warships a common sight back in the 60’s?

 

 

Neil

 

[Michael Delamar]

Looking forward to a trip to the Severn Valley tomorrow to ride 2 warships, has inspired me to dig up this thread and post this Crewe shot.

 

 

 

Warship D856 by Mike Rhodes, on Flickr

Edited May 19, 2018 by Michael Delamar

[Phil Bullock]

9.40 off Kidderminster with a warship tomorrow Michael?

 

That's my plan...

 

Meanwhile last warship in the north west perhaps? Friday 30th July 1971....D861 Vigilant made it as far as Crewe on 1M36 15.10 Newton Abbott - Newton le Willows motorail - returned south on 1V47 20.28 Manchester to Plymouth. Svereal more made it as far as BNS that summer but control intercepted them and sent them home PDQ eg D857 on 18.40 1S56 motorail Newton Abbot to Stirling on 6th September 1971 - almost last knockings for the 43s

 

Phil

[Michael Delamar]

9.40 off Kidderminster with a warship tomorrow Michael?

 

That's my plan...

 

 

Phil

Same for us too, will keep a look out and say hello.

[The Johnster]

I have mentioned it before, when I was in Stoke Control in the 60's & 70's, there was a chronic shortage of class 47 diesels - the "booked" loco's for Broad Gauge - LM inter regional freights. Just to keep trains running, you used what was available. If it was possible to replace a 47 with traction that came back "LXC" then you had another chance of keeping the job running. We (OK, I was) were just as guilty, dropping a 40 onto trains into Broad Gauge territory. Sometimes the ploy did not work, and a driver was found that knew the traction. Do not forget that 52's were built at Crewe, and quite a few men knew them. One odd fact being if the driver was working his rest day, he tended to sign more routes and traction than on a normal (just what were they?) day. Drivers also moved about the country, as I recall when we lost a 40 for a couple of days because an ex Bescot driver went native and moved to Severn Tunnel Junction.

Only now can I see the good times that those days were. At the time it was very stressful - to put it mildly.

 

Mike

 

It could work the other way around as well; I once worked 7M49, the 03.15 Cardiff (lLong Dyke)-Carlisle to Hereford with a 40.  We normally took a 47 off Canton shed for this, but on the morning in question were told that the loco was already on the train and were taken out to Long Dyke in the shed minibus.  My locomen climbed aboard and I went to prep the train.  Job done, I returned to the loco to give the driver the load slip; he promptly complained he was over load for a 37.  I pointed out that he was not aboard a 37, and that the odd noise from the engine room and the lack of a headcode panel should have given the game away even if neither he or the secondman had noticed the water scoop wheel next to the handbrake one. 

 

He challenged my view that a diesel loco was fitted with a water scoop, but the secondman, who had to look twice to believe what he was seeing, confirmed that I was absolutely correct and that they could have picked up water from troughs had there been any (this was sometime in 1972 IIRC), and I paused to give him time to demand a traction pilot.  'Well, it looks the same as a 37 to me', he said, 'come on, let's go', and blew up for the road.  Fair enough, I thought, I'm not getting involved in loco department business, and a completely uneventful run to Hereford ensued!  I never for a second doubted the Hereford relief driver's knowledge of 40s; they were common enough there in those days but didn't often make it much further south.

[DCB]

Looking forward to a trip to the Severn Valley tomorrow to ride 2 warships, has inspired me to dig up this thread and post this Crewe shot.

 

 

 

Warship D856 by Mike Rhodes, on Flickr

Is that really 11 April 1964 with no yellow warning panel?

[Phil Bullock]

Is that really 11 April 1964 with no yellow warning panel?

 

Understandable logic David...but according to Andy Y's excellent resource http://rmweb.co.uk/photos/Class_43_liveries_BRM_review.pdf she was the last in plain green - confirmed by The Book of the Warships, no panel until May 65

 

Phil

Edited May 19, 2018 by Phil Bullock

[SCM]

On 19/05/2018 at 18:21, DavidCBroad said:

Is that really 11 April 1964 with no yellow warning panel?

By coincidence 11th April 64 was the same day I travelled from Manchester to Newton Abbot. The train was not recorded but was probably 1V95 1205 Manchester-Plymouth. Motive power from Crewe to Bristol was D824 Highflyer.

[Pobrien]

Warship assisted into Bristol Temple Meads by GW Prarie 4132 on North to West train 9.05 Liverpool to Plymouth

 

Saturday 4 April 1964

 

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by Pobrien

[Pandora]

On 23/05/2021 at 16:43, Pobrien said:

Warship assisted into Bristol Temple Meads by GW Prarie 4132 on North to West train 9.05 Liverpool to Plymouth

 

Saturday 4 April 1964

 

 

Looking at the first carriage  behind the failed diesel, is there a person  standing on the carriage roof, back to the camera?

[TheSignalEngineer]

3 hours ago, Pandora said:

is there a person  standing on the carriage roof, back to the camera?

Yes  there were hoses for filling toilet roof tanks on the platform canopy.

Edited February 24, 2022 by TheSignalEngineer
Typo

[TheSignalEngineer]

Visible on this 

photo Patrick O'Brien on Flickr.

[TheSignalEngineer]

On 19/05/2018 at 18:21, DCB said:

Is that really 11 April 1964 with no yellow warning panel?

Colour Rail have two photos of D856 on their site. One is dated 25/7/64 and has no yellow panel. The other is dated 6/8/64 and has the yellow panel. I would doubt the latter date as the train near Teignmouth has three blue/grey Mk1coaches and one maroon. 

[keefer]

3 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said:

Yes  there were hoses for filling toilet roof tanks on the platform canopy.

 

I would never have thought that - I'm more used to Mk1 stock which, although the pipes go onto the roof, have filling points on the coach ends - hence easily accessible from the platform.

Presumably pre-nat GWR or LMS stock were filled from the roof.