18B Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Evening, just a thought to ponder, as a kid I used to build the Airfix 1:72 plane kits, they were generally cheap, under a fiver for a single engined fighter etc, or a little more a light bomber, but what I really wanted was a loco kit. I didn;t know about the Dapol kits etc, and what I really wanted was a Class 20, perhaps even in 3mm (to make it that bit cheaper?), for around £4:99, yes basic, but buildable in a modest time on a pocket money equipment. a OO size loco would be nice, but I;d sttle for TT, after all, these aren't for running, they'd be for building's sake, similar to why I built the Spitfire, the 109 etc etc, Question is, Would anyone else appreciate a new and expanded range of Plastic loco kits designed purely for the builder to build and have either in a siding or on shelf etc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2012 Revell do some (not uk outline) and not at the price you want. I suspect that the market is rather limited as model locos can easily be made to work at the size you are talking about where as to make a working aircraft at the same size is difficult so people accept this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 My recollection of the Airfix railway kits, from back in the days when a Series One (Spitfire, Defiant etc) cost two shillings (10P), was that, even then, the major retailer (Woolies) only carried one or two of the railway range, suggesting there wasn't much demand. The problem is that pattern-making for such a kit would cost as much as, or even more, than for a R-T-R model, with probably far fewer sales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Evening, just a thought to ponder, as a kid I used to build the Airfix 1:72 plane kits, they were generally cheap, under a fiver for a single engined fighter etc, or a little more a light bomber, but what I really wanted was a loco kit. I didn;t know about the Dapol kits etc, and what I really wanted was a Class 20, perhaps even in 3mm (to make it that bit cheaper?), for around £4:99, yes basic, but buildable in a modest time on a pocket money equipment. a OO size loco would be nice, but I;d sttle for TT, after all, these aren't for running, they'd be for building's sake, similar to why I built the Spitfire, the 109 etc etc, Question is, Would anyone else appreciate a new and expanded range of Plastic loco kits designed purely for the builder to build and have either in a siding or on shelf etc? I think, as has been discussed before, sadly the problem is the enormous investment that a manufacturer has to make in the tooling, regardless of subject, many railway items, be they rolling stock or motive power are very nation specific as far as there prospective customers go, where as for example the spitfire in what ever scale will be bought internationally in far greater numbers, making the unit cost less & the likely returns greater, I was involved with the IPMS for several years, & knew of many people who only modelled one aircraft type, & would often display literally dozens of that type in there various marks, squadron, & international colours, this goes on around the world with the armour & scale aicraft fraternity, but how many of us have, or know someone with a couple of dozen locomotives of just one type? let alone others internationally doing the same with a british subject Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 ...Would anyone else appreciate a new and expanded range of Plastic loco kits designed purely for the builder to build and have either in a siding or on shelf etc? How to make a small fortune from railway modelling products. Take one very large fortune, and produce a range of really accurate self assembly plastic locomotive kits. If you care to produce models of every loco that came out of Doncaster, not already available RTR, I promise to always have a kind word for you... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If you don't mind German and/or Russian WWII prototypes, there are a fair number of items available in 1/35, 1/72, and 1/144 scales. Armoured locos, armoured trains, other rolling stock, rail guns, etc. They tend not to be pocket money kits (very few plastic models are these days). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If it were to be done, it would be advisable to either offer a motorising kit from the same manufactoror or work alongside another company who could offer such a kit. The motorised chassis should fit the body in such a way that the body does not require major surgery. This I feel would make a plastic kit more marketable. However, that will not come cheap! And choosing a range of prototypes that will appeal to both the casual kitbuilder and railway modeller is going to be rather difficult! A lot of the old Airfix/Kitmaster range is still available from Dapol, I wonder how well they sell? Also Knightwing offer a couple of plastic diesel shunters and were, I think, developing a small steam loco kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2012 What might be more viable / interesting, would be a selection of parts with which to make a variety of industrial shunters - bonnets, access doors, cabs, radiator grills, buffers, etc, which with suitable baseplates would fit onto commercial chassis (eg Black Beetle / Spuds ). They may not make 100% accurate shunters, but would allow a novice (me !) to make an individual loco relatively easily. Just a thought. Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I think, as has been discussed before, sadly the problem is the enormous investment that a manufacturer has to make in the tooling..... ^ This. In the last 25 years, only Revell has sunk money into producing new plastic loco kits (and at least two of those were taken over from another manufacturer, ESCI). As far as motorising goes, it's probably easier to do for UK-outline engines than it is for German ones - believe me, I've had no end of trouble trying to source suitable components for my Revell collection. The other thing is, of course, that if you're going to produce state-of-the-art plastic loco kits, then why not go the whole hog and make them RTR anyway? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Perhaps something like the old cast metal bodyline kits, made to fit existing RTR chassis. To meet modern tastes it would need to be an accurate mating,so, for example, a 4F body for Bachmanns 3F chassis, none of the horrors of old, A3's on Britannia chassis and worse!! The problem of course is that you have limited opportunities to match a body to an existing chassis, and you are likely to be redundant when the RTR manufacturer releases their own version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsv1000r Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 ^ This. In the last 25 years, only Revell has sunk money into producing new plastic loco kits (and at least two of those were taken over from another manufacturer, ESCI). As far as motorising goes, it's probably easier to do for UK-outline engines than it is for German ones - believe me, I've had no end of trouble trying to source suitable components for my Revell collection. The other thing is, of course, that if you're going to produce state-of-the-art plastic loco kits, then why not go the whole hog and make them RTR anyway? & of course the old monogram big boy Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2012 I wonder if the market would be more viable if the locos were O gauge (or larger). Obviously the price would be higher but you're then tapping into a market that is mostly kits rather than one that is mostly RTR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I wonder if the market would be more viable if the locos were O gauge (or larger). .... Er....I think that was tried by 85A Models back in the 1990s with their all-plastic industrial 0-6-0ST. The range didn't expand further than that one engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2012 Er....I think that was tried by 85A Models back in the 1990s with their all-plastic industrial 0-6-0ST. The range didn't expand further than that one engine. That was a working loco though wasn't it rather than a static one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 That was a working loco though wasn't it rather than a static one. Principle's the same, no? And as a working plastic engine, it should arguably have had even more appeal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted January 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2012 Model Railroader reviewed a plastic locomotive kit about 10 years back, if I remember rightly. It was a 2-8-0 I think, possibly narrow gauge. The kit could came with a motor and gearbox enabling it to be built into a working model out of the box. From what I remember, the frames were plastic but were to be filled with lead shot or something similar. I've not seen anything mentioned about it in the intervening years so I'm guessing it wasn't a roaring success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 31, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2012 Principle's the same, no? And as a working plastic engine, it should arguably have had even more appeal. I'm not sure that it is. A static kit is more likely to sell in a non specialist railway retailer where as a working engine will possibly only end up in specialist retailers, and for O gauge these will be far more restrictive than for 00. Antics list a 1/35 German shunter for £35 Start adding in motors, metal wheels etc and the price will soon move out of the "easily" affordable price bracket. If you were going to go down this route then an 08 with parts to make it's Dutch counterpart would possibly be a good place to start or maybe one of the locos used by the war department overseas to gain military modellers and overseas modellers as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEATH STATION Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I recall in the early 1970's (40 years ago!!) that the Italian manufacturer Rivarrossi did a range of US prototype locomotives in O (1:48) which came asstatic kits with seperate motorising kits. " 4-4-0 'Reno' and 'Genoa' 4-6-0 Illinois Central 'Casey Jones' and 0-8-0 Indiana Harbor Belt were on sale replicating HO RTR scale models also in production. Box literature also promised a B&O 0-4-0 and a USRA style 0-6-0 but I don't believe that these ever appeared. Contemporary articles in the US model press had them kit bashed into allsorts including articulated locos. I think Kittle Hobbies were one of the main retailers then and a review of their contemporary ads would show prices which were in the £50- 60 - with a similar price for the motorising kit if I recall correctly. The other loco kit around then was a large scale of the 'General' but can't recall the manufacturer - I want to say Revell but I'm sure someone will know the right answer. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Surely, for 'Cottage Industry' production quantities, whitemetal or resin would be cheaper to master and produce. Several makers have come and gone over the years, Magna Models (described by some as "take this lump of whitemetal and file it to the shape of a loco" - that my be unkind, I don't really know) and Centre(?) Models (with their range of industrial locos) come to mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 .... Centre(?) Models (with their range of industrial locos) come to mind. Centre Models disappeared without trace into the abyss of the ABS empire in the 1980s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfwit Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 ...Centre Models (with their range of industrial locos) come to mind. Now owned by ABS. Doesn't mean that they're available though... EDIT: Beaten by Horsetan! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
travelintrev Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I had some of those Rivarrossi kits, Genoa & Reno got built as 0n3 (3/4" /19mm) gauge. I seem to recall that some one built Reno as one of the Midland Railways Baldwins. The IHB 0-8-0 was a monster, I powered it with a cannon motor & put Slaters wheels under it. I am pretty sure that several got "bashed" into USA type 2-8-0's . I guess though that the "Modern" market is just too small to make production of plastic loco kits viable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 .....EDIT: Beaten by Horsetan! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Well Knightwing have managed (albeit a shunter) in their range so how's about it Dapol Dave? The solution to double heading, class variants or just having a nice collection of loco's on shed. The alternative? There isnt a cheap one is there...........? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted January 31, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2012 Well Knightwing have managed (albeit a shunter) in their range so how's about it Dapol Dave? The solution to double heading, class variants or just having a nice collection of loco's on shed. The alternative? There isnt a cheap one is there...........? How about these : http://www.collieryroad.com/online/catalog/show/category/MM1073/Mini-Locomotive-Coal-Models Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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