Andy Y Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I struggle too with the concept of Bachmann putting in gobs of grease only to then tell people to remove it with a cotton bud. Why put grease in there in the first place (or is it to aid a smooth bedding in of the gears?). Why dont they just give a light oiling at the factory? I know that the matter has caused a degree of consternation at Barwell as it's not an issue that's occurred before and the reasons, at this stage, are unclear. They are working away at checking and remedying any items held in stock but the advice previously quoted is for customers who feel comfortable and willing to rectify the unfortunate issue. For those who cannot or will not the phone number has been provided and of course there is the option of contacting the retailer. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I know that the matter has caused a degree of consternation at Barwell as it's not an issue that's occurred before and the reasons, at this stage, are unclear. They are working away at checking and remedying any items held in stock but the advice previously quoted is for customers who feel comfortable and willing to rectify the unfortunate issue. For those who cannot or will not the phone number has been provided and of course there is the option of contacting the retailer. (ordinary) grease and electrical connections don't mix well! Something tells me that Bachmann should have thoroughly "road tested" a new design such as this before releasing it to general sale. Given the time taken to market in this case, is it unreasonable to expect this should have been done? Kudos to Bachmann for trying to get it put right when a design problem does emerge. However when the likes of Kato have tried the brass contact current collection and failed, then maybe Bachmann could have learned from this? Or, do manufacturers not learn from each other? Apologies for the load of ? marks, NOT directed personally at you, Andy, just quoting you to keep my post in context as I expected a host of responses! Cheers, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Are we all going to be supplied with screwdrivers, cottonbuds, isopropyl and electrically conductive oil to follow Bachmanns instructions? Can we recharge our time back? A skilled model engineer must be worth £25 an hour or more and what about people that don't have the confidence to open up a £90+ purchase. If it was a motorcar then there would be a recall and rectification would be done for free. Totally annoyed with a 'simple step' 1 and 2 solution without even a hint of an apology. Although I agree with the sentiment - there are other considerations to keep in mind:- This is not a safety issue, so wouldn't warrant a product recall in 'trading standards' {sic} terms. The 'step1, step 2' approach could probably be easily carried out by a 'dealer network' - previously known as your local model shop, most towns and cities had them. But as many (including myself) buy using mail order and internet they are no longer available to provide such a service. So I'm afraid the discount price comes with a discount after sales service. Whether Bachmann will offer to carry out wholesale remedial works remains to be seen, but you can bet they won't pay the postage to/from - why should they? Food for thought? As an afterthought, people who are unhappy could try the sale of goods not fit for purpose route.............. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 One of the main underlying issues I have with this is the divergence with tried and trusted good engineering practice, which has served the Bachmann diesel range well in recent years. A situation to which I really do aspire in my fleet’s underpinnings, much like the prototype, is uniformity and commonality, because this brings predictability and removes much of the scope for failures. When Bachmann move away from a system that works well in my existing large fleet of sixteen wheelers, I know that I’ll have to adopt a different regime for the new kid on the block. I like to know that when the body comes off a Danish Bo-Bo, I’ll be looking at the same fundamental guts no matter what it’s decorated as. The same should really be true of my Barwell juggernauts. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 lets hope new locos that have been decided on now or a year or two ago for future release in 2015/2016 arent lined up to receive a similar drive system unless this is completely ironed out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeighties Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Well, problem solved, both of mine are on their way back to Hattons. I'm not wasting any more valuable time trying to sort a bad job out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 One of the main underlying issues I have with this is the divergence with tried and trusted good engineering practice, which has served the Bachmann diesel range well in recent years. A situation to which I really do aspire in my fleet’s underpinnings, much like the prototype, is uniformity and commonality, because this brings predictability and removes much of the scope for failures. When Bachmann move away from a system that works well in my existing large fleet of sixteen wheelers, I know that I’ll have to adopt a different regime for the new kid on the block. It is an odd one; when I was discussing the matter earlier it's particularly frustrating for them as the 40 is fundamentally the same in terms of mechanicals and materials used as the recent LMS twin which has exhibited no such issues. The lubricant seems to have misbehaved, by seemingly liquefying and resetting elsewhere (where it shouldn't be), somewhere along the process but it was not detected in the samples tested before distribution. Bachmann are keen to resolve the issue and have taken the step of giving advice for those who don't wish to return their product or speak to the Service Dept. So far, Bachmann have had little feedback on this issue from retailers so it's not known how widespread the issue is; it could just be part of a batch. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted January 22, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) It is an odd one; when I was discussing the matter earlier it's particularly frustrating for them as the 40 is fundamentally the same in terms of mechanicals and materials used as the recent LMS twin which has exhibited no such issues. Not entirely true. My 10000 was initially a fine runner but developed the same traits (failure to pass points, flickering lights followed by failure to respond to the DCC controller ) after about an hour and a half. It's currently sat on a siding 'on shed' whilst I work out what to do. 10001 which I bought later is currently ok but hasn't had as long to run. The symptoms are ostensively the same as now being shown by the class 40 Edited January 22, 2014 by MikeParkin65 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Along with the poor pickup design does the dcc fitted 40 come with the crap 557 decoder which some people have stated is very difficult to program to get a loco running smoothly ?? . I have 2 gsyp's on order together with a sound version & it's not looking very good at the moment going by other peoples tales of woe . Stewart . Stewart A Soundtrax decoder is fitted as supplied, which may well be a 557 ?. It's difficult to judge the performance of the fitted or any (other) decoder on this loco until you get it to run properly. As supplied CV3 + CV4 were set at 0 hence no inertia or braking effect. Changing these 2 CV's alone to CV3 =128 and CV4=64 made a big improvement. These are only base line trial values, experiment to get the running that suits the layout size best. HTH Ken Edited January 22, 2014 by tractor_37260 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRUNFOS Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Could the faults lead to a glut of Crewe works dioramas??????? PS have now calmed down, no more rants! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durranhill Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 In readiness for when my 3 green 40's turn up i've invested in 2 packs of these for my pickups - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Slaters-1220-10-x-6-Long-x-1-16-Wide-x-0-005-Phosphor-Bronze-Pick-Up-Strip-/171172574550?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item27daae3556 - hope the link works OK . Stewart A Soundtrax decoder is fitted as supplied, which may well be a 557 ?. It's difficult to judge the performance of the fitted or any (other) decoder on this loco until you get it to run properly. As supplied CV3 + CV4 were set at 0 hence no inertia or braking effect. Changing these 2 CV's alone to CV3 =128 and CV4=64 made a big improvement. These are only base line trial values, experiment to get the running that suits the layout size best. HTH Ken Thanks for that info Ken - I bought 4 of the 557 Bachmann decoders on the back of the documentation & spec's shown on the Bachmann website but gave up up on the one I tried because I could not get the loco to run smooth , I then found out that Bachmann had gone for the cheapo Soundtrax decoder but put the higher spec info on their site , I emailed Bachmann about false advertising but they did not want to know so I now use lenz silvers or Zimo & esu for sound . Stewart . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Well at least there is an acknowledgement of issues and they are testing models where they have found issues. So while I agree it shouldn't have happened, at least Bachmann are communicating to resolve the issue. The red box team would be burying their head in the sand. Am I alone in finding the last comment demeaning and unnecessary? Whatever extensive discussions have taken place about the 'red box' team and production holdups, dealer issues etc, I cannot complain about their customer service or approach to faulty models. I don't want to enter into a Bachmann vs Hornby debate, in this case Bachmann have acknowledged that there may be an issue and are seeking to assist and I don't have any issue with their approach, but please don't let this turn into yet another rant about Hornby, especially on an aspect where the latter have always in my experience been exemplary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2014 Well at least there is an acknowledgement of issues and they are testing models where they have found issues. So while I agree it shouldn't have happened, at least Bachmann are communicating to resolve the issue. The red box team would be burying their head in the sand. What's to disagree with? The blue team have communicated on faults on 40 and are trying to rectify them. Heard anything from the Red team on rectifying models? 4Vep? 12 Spoke wheels on the star, apparently they will supply the correct 10 spoke but that was only heard through BRM I think, never an official announcement! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_R Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Picked up my 40 yesterday but when I got home and placed on track no sign of life from the motor although the cab and directional lights are all working correctly! I swopped the chip for a blanking plate and checked on DC. The same results so looks like Monday is take it back and hope there is another one in stock. I rang the shop this morning about the problem and to quote "we have now sold out" so there was no replacement available only a refund! They had, however, had problems reported with poor runners and one other non runner. They had already looked at that one for the customer and found a possible issue with the seating of the circuit board so suggested that I remove the 4 securing screws and gently lift the board a little and then re-seat it keeping it aligned and square. I did that and guess what - I now have a nice quiet smooth runner even through some fairly complex pointwork so it looks like mine may have been just an assembly issue or perhaps a case of the dreaded "design clever" although I cannot see what just lifting the board did but it worked on mine. It could have been a dry soldered joint somewhere on the board which now makes electrical contact - if it was (is) it will reappear. Not wishing to be the harbinger of doom, just to make you aware. Andy Guess what Andy it has reappeared!?! I have done some tests in DC with the blanking plug in and the results are interesting. As per my original post when the loco failed to respond to the controller the lights are working just as they should – the question is why? Using a multimeter with the body off I checked the continuity from each individual wheel to the brass pickup strip, of the 8 wheels that pick up current only 5 showed continuity. There was no sign of excessive lubrication but just to be sure gave all 8 pickup bushes a clean with contact cleaner, this resulted in 6 wheels giving contact with one of the inner axles refusing to show any sign of contact. Even after some further cleaning the contact from this axle was still very intermittent. Placing the chassis back on my test track there was still no sign of life from the motor. Back on the bench I checked for continuity from the wheels and at the point where the pickups rub on the circuit board and all was fine as were the soldered orange M- and grey M+ connections on the circuit board. The final test was at the brass brush connections on the motor again fine so continuity was there from wheels to motor bushes. I placed the chassis back on the test track, still no sign of life from motor. I did a current check with a dc controller with voltage set at 4 volts and power was there right through to the brass brush connections on the motor. Off the test track I checked the circuit across the 2 motor brush connections and there was no circuit - I am sure a motor has an open circuit unless one the motor poles is faulty? I replaced the body and placed loco back on the test track, still no sign of life from motor but the lights were working fine with the dc controller set at 4 volts. Looking at the underside of the loco there are holes between the fuel tanks and bogies through which you can just see the brass flywheels. Using a small screwdriver I turned the flywheel a little then placed the loco back on the track and away it went as if nothing was wrong! Back on the bench with the loco upside down in a cradle I applied 4 volts to the wheels on and off until there I got no response. Using the screwdriver I turned the flywheel a little and all was fine yet again. I repeated this a few more times with the same results then I placed the loco on the test track and stopped and started it until it failed to respond - lifted it up, turned the flywheel, put it back on the track and away it went. I repeated this 3 more times with the same results. I haven't tried it with the chip in as it appears that the loco only runs in one direction on DC with the chip in!?! From these tests it looks to me like there may be a motor fault with my loco not helped by the poor design of wheel pickups. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Martin, Great Diagnostics testing - but just one thing - does the motor stop at the same point each time/ You could check by applying a discrete mark to flywheel..... Also if this proves to be true, is this the same point at which you lose continuity across the motor brushes, this would point to a motor fault, but not necessarily an open circuit winding. I had a problem (different loco / motor) where there was a ridge at one end of a commutator insulation segment that was 'just' lifting the brush clear. Only apparent when running slowly as at higher speeds inertia would carry the armature round and the brush would re-establish contact. Just a thought..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndon Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Well, I've done the following tonight:1. Taken mine apart, unscrewed and rescrewed the circuit board2. Actually slightly tightened the bogie screws (there's not much margin between the bogie being too tight and very loose)3. Checked all the back to backs4. Checked all the pickupsI've only got 4' of track to run the loco on but it has just gone backwards and forwards 20 times over the 2 turnouts on my layout without a flicker or stall.So, I'm not completely convinced yet but things do seem to have improved...John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 What's to disagree with? The blue team have communicated on faults on 40 and are trying to rectify them. Heard anything from the Red team on rectifying models? 4Vep? 12 Spoke wheels on the star, apparently they will supply the correct 10 spoke but that was only heard through BRM I think, never an official announcement! My VEP was fine, but Hornby sorted out my 31, fitted NEM pockets free of charge to my early issue superdetail Pullmans, sent a free point by return of post when one was faulty in my son's train set, sent me a complimentary replacement part for a secondhand Airfix kit with a defective part made long before they owned that company - I could go on, but I have always have had exemplary customer service from them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 My VEP was fine, but Hornby sorted out my 31, fitted NEM pockets free of charge to my early issue superdetail Pullmans, sent a free point by return of post when one was faulty in my son's train set, sent me a complimentary replacement part for a secondhand Airfix kit with a defective part made long before they owned that company - I could go on, but I have always have had exemplary customer service from them. But..... If you don't mind me asking? What has this to do with the Bachmann Class 40 ? Especially as to quote from post #463 "I don't want to enter into a Bachmann vs Hornby debate" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Has anyone purchased the Bachmann 37034 yet? I want to. Does anyone have knowledge if it is likely to suffer from the same problems. Has anyone had a chance to open one up/run one? http://www.ehattons.com/52591/Bachmann_Branchline_32_781A_Class_37_0_37034_BR_Blue_Split_Head_Code_Weathered/StockDetail.aspx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIRTY DIESEL Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Just done everything Bachmann have suggested, not made the slightest difference in fact I think it's got worse. It won't even move without a helping hand. It's the same on DCC & DC. On mine you only have to touch the body and the lights start to flicker off & on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_R Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Martin, Great Diagnostics testing - but just one thing - does the motor stop at the same point each time/ You could check by applying a discrete mark to flywheel..... Also if this proves to be true, is this the same point at which you lose continuity across the motor brushes, this would point to a motor fault, but not necessarily an open circuit winding. I had a problem (different loco / motor) where there was a ridge at one end of a commutator insulation segment that was 'just' lifting the brush clear. Only apparent when running slowly as at higher speeds inertia would carry the armature round and the brush would re-establish contact. Just a thought..... Hi Andy, I did try that as I have memories of the old X03, X04 and the Romford Bulldog loosing a pole! There was not a lot of room to get at it but I did manage to mark one flywheel but it didn't stop at the marked point so marked the other flywheel as well - again no sign of it stopping at either marked point so looks like it will be a phone call to Bachmann. Cheers, Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Does anyone have knowledge if it is likely to suffer from the same problems. Has anyone had a chance to open one up/run one? http://www.ehattons.com/52591/Bachmann_Branchline_32_781A_Class_37_0_37034_BR_Blue_Split_Head_Code_Weathered/StockDetail.aspx I shouldn't think so, I imagine it will be the same design philosophy as other recent Bachmann 37s, it would make no sense to spend money redesigning it. EDIT: judging by Hattons' pictures, the pick-ups are visibly as per previous 37s. Edited January 22, 2014 by 'CHARD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernBlue80s Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Thanks for clearing that up Chard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopardml2341 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Hi Andy, I did try that as I have memories of the old X03, X04 and the Romford Bulldog loosing a pole! There was not a lot of room to get at it but I did manage to mark one flywheel but it didn't stop at the marked point so marked the other flywheel as well - again no sign of it stopping at either marked point so looks like it will be a phone call to Bachmann. Cheers, Martin. Good Luck ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium richierich Posted January 22, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) I'm not sure the 32-475DC 40 141 in BR Blue has sold out? Bachmann are still showing it as in stock, although not updated since 14/01/2014. From the comments on here, a summary of the problems can be narrowed down to:- Revised pick up system potentially causing some continuity issues Potential quality control issues with the motors fitted Revised contacts to the motor potentially causing continuity issues DCC chip quality or CV settings, potentially causing poor running? So far guess its a popular model, because not even seen one in my local shop. Believe they sold out before reaching the display cabinet. Having seen pre-production models at Warley for the last two years, I was looking forward to seeing one, and it might have seen me buy one (models in BR Blue seem few and far between at present). So watching with interest the situation at the moment . . . Edited January 22, 2014 by richierich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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