EBay madness

[amdaley]

I normally don't comment on this thread for good reason even though I regularly look at it. I would agree with kandc_au in post 3586 above.

If I see an item I may be interested in I regularly bid up in small amounts to see if the high bidder is prepared to bid more than what I think the item is worth. If the amount reaches a level which I am not prepared to bid past i delete the item from my watch list & move on to other things. This does not make me a shill bidder either. I have a perfect 100% E bay record because of the way I treat both Sellers & Buyers alike.

Colin's McLeod's comments in both posts no 3581 & 3582 are correct. Perhaps posters might take more care before posting allegations of wrong doing. I might also add that there are times when the moderation of this thread could be a little sharper.

[RedgateModels]

I would not suspect shill bidding when a bidder repeatedly bids in small increments - some people like the bidding process and that's just how they use eBay.

 

It's when repeated small incremental bids are used and THEN the highest bid is withdrawn do alarm bells start ringing as this does look like the bidder is merely trying to expose the first bidders highest bid.

 

It sounds like in this case this was not the case.

[MarkC]

Well, I've just queried it

 

And, as most of us will have thought, it was a slip of the pen finger - got a nice email back from the chap - good luck to him

[Kenton]

It sounds like in this case this was not the case.

 

Absolutely, and as I stated after the event this certainly was not the case.

 

Perhaps for my benefit, and possibly others, we need a better definition of "shill bidding" and how to spot it? It is something we all detest about ebay and have all come across examples - though this particular one turned out not to be one.

 

Though even the inference to "shill bidding" was definitely out of order on an active sale it was only a secondary and possibly emotive response to the small increment bidding by a single bidder. The main reason for the initial post, now deleted, was the price justification response to a prior post.

 

I can see no justification for small incremental bidding other than automatic bidding handled by ebay. One bid as a marker bid is fine, followed by one or two realistic bids to out bid other bidders. The item after all has a value to each bidder and possibly a little in excess of that value, simply to win.

[kandc_au]

 

 

I can see no justification for small incremental bidding other than automatic bidding handled by ebay. One bid as a marker bid is fine, followed by one or two realistic bids to out bid other bidders. The item after all has a value to each bidder and possibly a little in excess of that value, simply to win.

 

Why?

If I bid, it also depends on my mood as to whether I will spend more or not on an item.

Might not seem logical to you but..... it me that is bidding.

As time has gone on I have started to be more prudent on what I will bid on but like I said this last few days I kept uppig the bid and justifying to myself why i would go a little higher, so really it is horses for course as to how people bid.

 

khris

[amdaley]

How people bid is entirely up to themselves.

[Kenton]

Why?

If I bid, it also depends on my mood as to whether I will spend more or not on an item.

 

But surely there is no justification for placing bids that you know (instinctively or by research) are far less than the true value of an item.

 

So on an item you think you might like to buy on which there is already one bid currently sitting at say £30 and you know it is likely to sell for £50, You then make a bid of £21 as a marker (to get it on your watch list). Do you really follow it up with £1 incremental bids just because you keep changing your mind? Or would you want to give yourself a realistic chance and actually bid the £50 you think it is worth?

 

Perhaps that is just being logical, but I see items on ebay are to be bid on with the intent of winning them. Not as a game to simply to push up the price. Which is why I usually use a snipe program (I now wish I had used it on this particular item - as I would have won it at a much lower price).

[Mod3]

Lets call time on the arguments please gentlemen.

[PaulRhB]

But surely there is no justification for placing bids that you know (instinctively or by research) are far less than the true value of an item

 

there is if you want a bargain if no-one else seems interested and you think 'well I'll have it at that price', or the amount it's worth to you regardless of what the market value is the ones that regulary make the rest of us think WHAT!

 

Showing your hand early gives others time to consider if they want to raise their bid so you may well help inflate the price higher than you want to go but that's open to individual opinion too.

 

I was confused when I saw I had two bids on an item and they were both from the same person, obviously they set a bid then thought it was worth more so upped their limit before anyone else bid.

 

ebay! it's mad but we're all watching it!

[The Stationmaster]

Absolutely, and as I stated after the event this certainly was not the case.

 

Perhaps for my benefit, and possibly others, we need a better definition of "shill bidding" and how to spot it? It is something we all detest about ebay and have all come across examples - though this particular one turned out not to be one.

 

Though even the inference to "shill bidding" was definitely out of order on an active sale it was only a secondary and possibly emotive response to the small increment bidding by a single bidder. The main reason for the initial post, now deleted, was the price justification response to a prior post.

 

I can see no justification for small incremental bidding other than automatic bidding handled by ebay. One bid as a marker bid is fine, followed by one or two realistic bids to out bid other bidders. The item after all has a value to each bidder and possibly a little in excess of that value, simply to win.

I don't go on Ebay much nowadays but bidding there is just the same as anywhere else and being used to auction bidding I almost invariably bid in the minimum increments - it is daft to overbid because you might end up paying too much by simply going way beyond the value other bidders place on the lot. Any price realised at any auction depends on the bidders and they are prepared or able to pay.

 

The critical point in all of this is that buyers will bid and pay what they think the lot is worth - and that can be wildly different (either way) from what the seller or auction house might think it is worth and it can be totally different from what other bidders might think it is worth notwithstanding that they might have good knowledge of the usual sale price of such a lot. Ebay is just the same in that respect - our minds can boggle at prices asked, or achieved, and at the amazing descriptions but in the end it all comes down to what someone is willing and able to pay.

 

As for shill bidding the simple answer is that if it is being done carefully it must, by inference, be very difficult to spot except perhaps where a bidder who has made the running suddenly withdraws his bids at the end, or the bidder is recognised somehow. But even then we might simply be looking at ordinary bidding because any sensible bidder will have set their limit on the lot and will pull out when it is reached - thus a price can, for instance, go up into 4 figures and only one of the last two left in will win the lot, which happens when the underbidder reaches his limit.

[amdaley]

Private listing hasn't helped unless you know or have dealt with the seller before & you know he is genuine.

 

private listing - bidders' identities protected

 

This is an open invitation to shill bidding which is after all a cooperation or plan between the buyer & one or several bidders to bump up the price ? With private listings you have no idea who is bidding & what sort of form they have.

Edited May 9, 2012 by amdaley

[Bruciethefish]

In ebay's current format, you have no idea who's bidding anyway, as all bidder's identities are hidden from other bidders.. In any case, many folk bid repeatedly, in small increments.. some are hoping to just 'pip' the high bidder, without lashing out any more than they have to.. Many others are 'newbies' who haven't sussed out how ebay works yet, & are just reacting to the 'you've been outbid' message.. If I'm buying a car or similar, I always look for one that's being bid on in small increments, as that indicates to me that the competing bidders are inexperienced, & that a substantial bid at the last moment might bag a real bargain... I don't think that small bids are an indication of shill bidding;- It's more likely that a seller will get one of his mates to bid just below what something's really worth, in the hope of stimulating a higher bid..

[bertiedog]

In ebay's current format, you have no idea who's bidding anyway, as all bidder's identities are hidden from other bidders.. In any case, many folk bid repeatedly, in small increments.. some are hoping to just 'pip' the high bidder, without lashing out any more than they have to.. Many others are 'newbies' who haven't sussed out how ebay works yet, & are just reacting to the 'you've been outbid' message.. If I'm buying a car or similar, I always look for one that's being bid on in small increments, as that indicates to me that the competing bidders are inexperienced, & that a substantial bid at the last moment might bag a real bargain... I don't think that small bids are an indication of shill bidding;- It's more likely that a seller will get one of his mates to bid just below what something's really worth, in the hope of stimulating a higher bid..

But, that is shill bidding even one false bid is enough to have your collar felt at a public auction, as is ringing and step bidding, any arrangement is liable to be illegal, which Ebay disregards unless blatant. The main up bidding comes from Hong Kong items, they use auto programs to ensure a minimum price is reached, way above the shown one at the early bidding.

Having used Ebay for ages now I wait till about 15 secs and enter what I can afford, it is the safe way, and never buy what you cannot afford to lose on if it is defective, you can at least claim back etc.

Stephen.

[Bruciethefish]

Indeed, Stephen;- My point was that the last-mentioned is the most likely form of shill bidding to be encountered, rather than small increments. I tend to follow the same policy as yourself, placing my maximum bid at the last possible moment;- this also has the advantage that it leaves no time for me to get carried away & make a fool of myself by desperately overbidding...

[37255]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/North-British-Y9-0-4-0ST-/230784607291?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item35bbd5a43b#ht_500wt_1363 Move the filler cap and apply some transfers - badly - and people bid £40?! I must have some caley pugs lying around somewhere!

[ozzyo]

http://www.ebay.co.u...b#ht_500wt_1363 Move the filler cap and apply some transfers - badly - and people bid £40?! I must have some caley pugs lying around somewhere!

 

It's also AC powered, and kit built!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CHAZ D]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-LOCOMOTIVE-FLYING-SCOTSMAN-BOXED-/150796661454?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item231c2e72ce

finished no bid

then

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-LOCOMOTIVE-FLYING-SCOTSMAN-BOXED-/150801804657?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item231c7ced71

finished no bid

Now

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-LOCOMOTIVE-FLYING-SCOTSMAN-BOXED-/150814210184?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item231d3a3888

Will get there in the end!

[Metr0Land]

He's also got this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LIMA-DIESEL-LOCOMOTIVE-MELD-9003-BOXED-V-G-C-/150814214321?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item231d3a48b1

 

...which had previously been offered like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LIMA-DIESEL-LOCOMOTIVE-MELD-9003-BOXED-V-G-C-/150798152954?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item231c4534fa

[Kenton]

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item231c2e72ce

finished no bid

then

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item231c7ced71

finished no bid

Now

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item231d3a3888

Will get there in the end!

 

Is that one of those bid high auctions where the auctioneer starts at some unrealistically high price and keeps dropping the starting price until someone falls finally thinks the item worth it and bids?

[Oldddudders]

It's also AC powered, and kit built!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And fetched £41!

[kevinlms]

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item231c2e72ce

finished no bid

then

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item231c7ced71

finished no bid

Now

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item231d3a3888

Will get there in the end!

 

Perhaps not yet, when one of the big online retailers are offering another version of Flying Scotsman for 64 pounds.

 

Kevin Martin

[Il Grifone]

Not quite "madness" but......

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/train-wheels-victorian-maybe-georgian-metal-vintage-antique-metal-detecting-find-/160800326112?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item25707241e0

 

Hardly "Georgian" unless the seller means George VI or possibly V!

 

Looks like junk to me!

[Horsetan]

God loves a trier, part 2

[Kenton]

A second mortgage required simply to join in the bidding.

 

I simply do not understand the reasoning behind such a large lot and without a complete set of supporting photographs - who in their right mind is going to pay this sort of money without even a single photo of each item.

 

Then there is the fact that although many/several potential bidders might ne interested in a single item they are unlikely to have an interest in the same Job Lot.

 

It is not that I'm disputing the overall price just the best approach to actually achieving a sale. Though with so much scratch built perhaps that is why there are no photos?

[Oldddudders]

Not quite "madness" but......

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item25707241e0

 

Hardly "Georgian" unless the seller means George VI or possibly V!

Yes, the description quotes Victorian or possibly earlier. Given that Queen Vic got the job in 1837, how many toy trains were on sale before that date?