RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 1, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2021 Just now, John Besley said: I suppose if the 00 Commandos took on the H0 Kommando then we would tower over them Surely the diorama just has the Commandos towards the front attacking the Kommando entrenched towards the rear? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Ah, but what gauge to those scales? HO is 4'8½" gauge at 3.5 mm/ft; OO is 4'1½" gauge at 4 mm/ft. So I return to my original point that each represents a particular combination of gauge and scale. Thus OO9 is "the scale used for OO models - i.e. 4 mm/ft - with 9 mm gauge track", or more succinctly "2'3" gauge railway at 4 mm/ft scale". Sorry about all this - I used to be on a couple of international committees that dealt with symbols, units, terminology, and nomenclature. So we should be specifying OO16.5? Ripe for confusion with O16.5... Then again, you could have a 7mm scale layout comprising an O gauge main branch line, with an O16.5 narrow gauge feeder, and an OO16.5 RHD style line to round things off 21 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: Surely the diorama just has the Commandos towards the front attacking the Kommando entrenched towards the rear? And a nice demonstration of forced perspective! I shall wear my Triang OO/HO lapel badge with pride... Edited October 1, 2021 by Hroth Drat and Double Drat!!! Managed to leave out an "i"... 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 Steady on! I once had someone try and pick a fist fight with me because he objected to a badge on my motorcycle jacket (It ended badly for him.) Go to a meeting of the scalefour society wearing that Tri-ang badge, I dare you! 1 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 1, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2021 15 minutes ago, Hroth said: So we should be specifying OO16.5? No, that's redundant. 16.5 mm gauge is implied by OO. Unless you want to redefine other gauges used in 4 mm/ft British standard gauge modelling as OO18.2 and OO18.83... 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 I think that might result in handbags at dawn... 1 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Compound2632 said: No, that's redundant. 16.5 mm gauge is implied by OO. Unless you want to redefine other gauges used in 4 mm/ft British standard gauge modelling as OO18.2 and OO18.83... Surely OO merely implies 4mm/ft, as HO does 3.5mm/ft. Logically speaking, the correct way to describe the other 4mm related gauges would be to prefix them with "OO" to clearly indicate that they are associated with the 4mm scale. But yes, it would be handbags at dawn territory... Edited October 1, 2021 by Hroth 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 1, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Hroth said: Surely OO merely implies 4mm/ft, To go back to my original point, OO specifies the combination of 4 mm/ft scale and 16.5 mm gauge. So "OO gauge" and "OO scale" are both tautologies; it's sufficient to state "OO". Edited October 1, 2021 by Compound2632 emphasis 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul H Vigor Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 1 hour ago, MrWolf said: I think that might result in handbags at dawn... "Ecky Thump"! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 I'm rather glad that the scale / gauge conundrum is finally cleared up! Oh,hang on... 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John Besley Posted October 1, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2021 10 minutes ago, MrWolf said: I'm rather glad that the scale / gauge conundrum is finally cleared up! Oh,hang on... Ah is that what H0 stands for 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 47137 Posted October 1, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, Hroth said: Surely OO merely implies 4mm/ft, as HO does 3.5mm/ft. Logically speaking, the correct way to describe the other 4mm related gauges would be to prefix them with "OO" to clearly indicate that they are associated with the 4mm scale. But yes, it would be handbags at dawn territory... Supposing 0 means 32 mm gauge and 1:43, 1:45 or 1:48 H0 means 16.5 mm gauge and 1:87 or occasionally 1:82 N means 9 mm gauge and 1:148 or 1:160 and 00 means 16.5 mm gauge and 1:76 (ignoring the USA 19 mm version) So 0, H0 and N all specify a gauge with a regional choice of scale. If there is to be consistency 00 also specifies a gauge, but one where there is only one scale in use. I cannot see a sensible derivation of the phrase "00 scale" but the RTR manufacturers like this for their boxes. Perhaps it conveys prestige. Also eBay. I call it 00 gauge instead of 00 so it doesn't sound like a paint brush. - Richard. 1 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 This is going to turn into one of those great philosophical debates held around a bonfire in the middle of nowhere at three o'clock in the morning by a group of people so drunk that any great epiphanies will be forgotten by breakfast time. I've been to a few of those... 5 2 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 47137 Posted October 1, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 1, 2021 5 minutes ago, MrWolf said: This is going to turn into one of those great philosophical debates held around a bonfire in the middle of nowhere at three o'clock in the morning by a group of people so drunk that any great epiphanies will be forgotten by breakfast time. I've been to a few of those... Well if we browse eBay -> Collectables -> Model trains, they use "gauge" as the qualifier so we can probably relax here at any rate. - Richard 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted October 1, 2021 Share Posted October 1, 2021 Excellent. I am already onto more practical matters such as: Has my motorcycle fallen over during the night? Has my tent leaked? Most importantly, where did I stash that bacon? 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hroth Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 Oh well, looking at the current weather, into each life some rain must fall... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin S-C Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 17 hours ago, Compound2632 said: Ah, but what gauge to those scales? HO is 4'8½" gauge at 3.5 mm/ft; OO is 4'1½" gauge at 4 mm/ft. So I return to my original point that each represents a particular combination of gauge and scale. Thus OO9 is "the scale used for OO models - i.e. 4 mm/ft - with 9 mm gauge track", or more succinctly "2'3" gauge railway at 4 mm/ft scale". Sorry about all this - I used to be on a couple of international committees that dealt with symbols, units, terminology, and nomenclature. Who cares what gauge. That's not the point. (I'm going to throw in an unreasonable number of smileys into this so you know I'm not upset!) You said "there is no difference between H0 and 00" which rather surprised me, coming from someone who I know, knows what he's talking about! As I said, there is a huge difference between H0 and 00. I am not going to argue what that difference is, but am arguing that they are not the same - which goes back to my original point, that Airfix were quite wrong to express these symbols on their boxes of plastic soldiers as though they were the same thing. They were stating that the figures in their boxes were both 1:87 and 1:76 scale at the same time, which is patently nonsense and was obvious to even a 9 year old me. The problem being that Airfix didn't intend their figures to be two scales at the same time - so what did they intend? Who knows? But their box labelling was neither correct nor helpful and 6 decades later we have Bachmann perpetuating the confusion. Here I am desperately trying to drag the discussion back to the original posters comment! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin S-C Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 17 hours ago, Compound2632 said: Surely the diorama just has the Commandos towards the front attacking the Kommando entrenched towards the rear? WWII politics is all about forced perspectives. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin S-C Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 16 hours ago, Compound2632 said: No, that's redundant. 16.5 mm gauge is implied by OO. Not if its H0 !! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted October 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 2, 2021 I'm always up for pointless philosophical arguments at any time of day! 12 minutes ago, Martin S-C said: You said "there is no difference between H0 and 00" which rather surprised me, coming from someone who I know, knows what he's talking about! You take my remark out of context. You said "OO is a gauge" to which I replied: 21 hours ago, Compound2632 said: To continue down a rather pointless rabbit-hole, if that is the case, there is no difference between HO and OO. And try explaining OO9 from your premise... My point being that OO is more than just a gauge, it's a combination of a gauge and a scale. If HO and OO only denote gauges, then they are the same since they both denote a gauge of 16.5 mm. I was deploying the reductio ad absurdum. 12 minutes ago, Martin S-C said: As I said, there is a huge difference between H0 and 00. Of course. One denotes a scale of 3.5 mm/ft (in a British context at least), the other a scale of 4 mm/ft. (Or as a ratio, 1:76.2, not 1/76.) 2 minutes ago, Martin S-C said: Not if its H0 !! OO implies 16.5 mm gauge; HO implies 16.5 mm gauge. Saying that the gauge is 16.5 mm is a necessary but not a sufficient condition for the model to be OO or HO: it is necessary to specify the scale too. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 (edited) Meanwhile.... Back in the world of 304.8mm / ft.... I think that I said this would get complicated. Edited October 2, 2021 by MrWolf Typing with hind paws again... 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 39 minutes ago, MrWolf said: Meanwhile.... Back in the world of 304.8mm / ft.... I think that I said this would get complicated. Well fished, sir. Well fished 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrWolf Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, MarkC said: Well fished, sir. Well fished Thanks awfully old chap... 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted October 2, 2021 Share Posted October 2, 2021 This is a belting offer. It’s been on at £500 for past 2 or 3 months, relisted each time it fails to sell. This time he’s added a discount. See if you can tell how generous he was…. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dynamis-Train-set-Bachmann-Railways-30-046-Rare-Out-of-stock-Digital-Set-/174955481289?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0 Split down, this is perhaps worth £250 new. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted October 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 2, 2021 "Looking for a buyer who knows what they are doing" As presumably opposed to a seller who in reality hasn't got a clue I suppose... 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted October 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 2, 2021 Why does this mention Airfix in the description?!? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133889969628 Also one of my pet hates, a miniscule description but War & Peace length blurb.... 1 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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