chrisf Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 The wagon at Bescot is a 16 tonner. I'm wondering if it was used for spoil, though, because if it was there would be slots in the sides a little over half-way up. I understand that this was done to prevent overloading, which had led to accidents in the past. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2012 The wagon at Bescot is a 16 tonner. I'm wondering if it was used for spoil, though, because if it was there would be slots in the sides a little over half-way up. I understand that this was done to prevent overloading, which had led to accidents in the past. Chris If the pic had been dated much earlier I would have said that the slots were still to be cut in that wagon but with a 1999 date (if correct - and it probably is) that clearly wouldn't be an explanation. So possibly it was used for other jobs but it's not easy to puzzle out what other than to say it could easily be overloaded if in use for spent ballast or spoil without the slots. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2012 The ZKV is a 27T Iron Ore Tippler. There were 1000 of these built and they were often used for stone traffic, and finally for spoil. They didn't have holes cut in like the 16T wagons for spoil use as they were much stronger 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 The ZKV is a 27T Iron Ore Tippler. There were 1000 of these built and they were often used for stone traffic, and finally for spoil. They didn't have holes cut in like the 16T wagons for spoil use as they were much stronger Can I have half a point for knowing about the spoil holes?! Chris 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Two more pictures for you 1 Mixed rake of dogfish and sealions at Healey Mills 2 Shark Plough \ brake van in middle of consist of Sealion / Seacow Cheers 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Superb pictures, may have to go raid the bargain bin for the ex-ore wagaons rather than go Grampus (i'm very cash starved) thanks black and decker boy chrisf, yes you can have half a point! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrange Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Very handy thread this (again) can anyone provide other examples of formations? I take it spoil trains were loaded with a excavator, were they brought to the work site by road or rail? If by rail was it on a lowmac wagon? Just looking for ideas for short/more unusual variants on a ballast train Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Horn Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Just one example ZVR DB900045 TJH01 Trowse Sunday 8th April 2001 Copyright Tim Horn Edited March 10, 2012 by Tim Horn 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 10, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) S-Kits do KWA plant carrier kit: 'Dozer not included. Cheers, Mick Edited March 10, 2012 by newbryford 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 In the example you offer the brake force created by the 37 and seacows would be plenty to stop the train under normal circumstances, but in the event of a broken coupling in the dogfish portion there would be nothing to stop the dogfish running away as they would be unbraked. For the train to be correctly formed the last 3 vehicles must have working brakes controllable from the loco, the above formation would be illegal. cheers All it needs is a brake van to be marshalled at the rear, there is no requirement for "the last 3 vehicles must have working brakes controllable from the loco", can you poiint me to this rule please because I have never heard of it, there is also no requirement for a brake van in the middle.Can you explain how the last 3 vehicles would be braked from the loco on a partially fitted freight? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) Shark Plough \ brake van in middle of consist of Sealion / Seacow These would have a continuous brake and would not be unfitted swingers. Edited March 10, 2012 by royaloak Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 (edited) All it needs is a brake van to be marshalled at the rear, there is no requirement for "the last 3 vehicles must have working brakes controllable from the loco", can you poiint me to this rule please because I have never heard of it, there is also no requirement for a brake van in the middle. Can you explain how the last 3 vehicles would be braked from the loco on a partially fitted freight? I think there are a couple of wires crossed here - the fact that the Dogfish would need a brake van at the rear is, I think, what Rivercider was getting at. The 'last three braked' rule applies on a fully fitted freight where one or more vehicles is piped or has the brakes isolated on that wagon. The brake must be continuous from loco to last vehicle, but not necessarily operating on every vehicle, provided it is operating on the last three. There must, however, be enough brake force available on the remaining vehicles. Engineers trains booked as Class 7 (45mph ?) but actually operating as Class 8s (35mph) were quite common on the ER around the time I took my pics, usually because one or more vehicles were piped or isolated. The Shark in the middle wasn't an operating department requirement, it was done for the Engineers' convenience. Edited March 10, 2012 by stuartp 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
royaloak Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Ah I see, I thought we were talking about partially fitted not piped trains. Thanks for clearing it up. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian G Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) I have a rake of 7 dogfish, 3 seacows, 1 sealion and a shark in 7mm, plus a few ex boplates with a load of 4 wheeled wagons for another engineers train. Ian G Edited March 11, 2012 by Ian G 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted March 11, 2012 Author Share Posted March 11, 2012 I'm not the only one increasing knowlegde from this thread now then? I'd like to say i have the wagons to go with my 37 and Shark now to show you but having rather major cash flow issues at the moment.... watch this space and i'll get them one day, honest! Cheers again for all the good info and pics guys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrange Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 S-Kits do KWA plant carrier kit: Cheers, Mick Do Shawplan still stock S-kits?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2012 Do Shawplan still stock S-kits?? They have odd ones - best S-Kits stockist these days is Nairnshire Modelling Supplies. HTH, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrange Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 They have odd ones - best S-Kits stockist these days is Nairnshire Modelling Supplies. HTH, Mick Nice one, cheers Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrange Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Not looking too promising judging by Nairnshires site, have emailed them Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrange Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Update - they have no new stock and wont for the foreseeable future Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted March 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 13, 2012 Update - they have no new stock and wont for the foreseeable future Shame, as it's not a bad kit to build once you suss out how to keep it from riding high on the bogies. Cue silly ebay prices...... Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted March 26, 2012 Author Share Posted March 26, 2012 I have some sandwich garnish! Picked up 2 secondhand ZKA 'Limpet' wagons today which can be hooked up after the shark. Just had a quick read back over the thread and found they're air braked so i'll probably now just look at a selection of Sealions to fill the sandwich and keep it simple without the seperate brake van. What are the downsides (there's bound to be down sides!) with the old Lima model? With our household budget the way it is I have to look at the cheaper options than the brand new Sealions available. I'm more of a watching trains go by fan than a rivet counter anyway. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 There is nothing dramatically wrong with the Lima Sealion. The internal baffle plate is too big, it should only go half height and there should be mesh canopies over the handwheels that operate the chutes. Depending on era, there may have been issues with bogies but I certainly used them after fitting canopies and ballast loads. They can be made to look good if you paint / weather the chutes (metal silver with a light rust wash) and the inside of the hopper. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted March 27, 2012 Author Share Posted March 27, 2012 There is nothing dramatically wrong with the Lima Sealion. The internal baffle plate is too big, it should only go half height and there should be mesh canopies over the handwheels that operate the chutes. Depending on era, there may have been issues with bogies but I certainly used them after fitting canopies and ballast loads. They can be made to look good if you paint / weather the chutes (metal silver with a light rust wash) and the inside of the hopper. Thanks B&DB. To Ebay! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ess1uk Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 There is nothing dramatically wrong with the Lima Sealion. The internal baffle plate is too big, it should only go half height and there should be mesh canopies over the handwheels that operate the chutes. Depending on era, there may have been issues with bogies but I certainly used them after fitting canopies and ballast loads. They can be made to look good if you paint / weather the chutes (metal silver with a light rust wash) and the inside of the hopper. I've got a few Lima sea cows that I've weathered and they look ok. Great thread this, learning loads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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