The Fall & Rise of the 60's ( was The End of the Tugs?)

[Crossfell5]

Seen 2 working today - 60071 and 60096? (at Rectory)

[rs4]

Hi

 

My contribution........seen on Friday at Doncaster.

 

60096 back in action. Very exciting !

 

Well worth the trip [stevenage into London then up WCML to Warrington. Back across through Manchester, Sheffield onto Donny then back down ECML].

 

It's years since I've been up the WCML further than New St, surprised that Crewe is still very much packed with eye catching spots....

 

Anyway, picture attached..

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Mallard60022]

Seen 2 working today - 60071 and 60096? (at Rectory)

 

That light blue one with the small white dots and name to do with children was at Donny Decoy today, facing south at 11.15. (Sorry I don't really know anything about diesels). I was driving over the bridge from the M18 slip at Potteric so no pic I'm sorry.

36E

[Glorious NSE]

The US Rail Industry is in a completely different league and can offer cheaper locos than we can in the UK.

 

If Sterling ends up at parity with the US$ that will change!

 

No it won't.

 

Which UK company can offer you a diesel where the "guts" have been in continuous incremental development for years (since the 1930s in "new broom" terms, or since the mid 1980s as directly comparable spec with the same series of engines) Which UK builder has tens of thousands of loco's working across the globe in every type of service from commuter trains to the most demanding of heavy haul duties, on terrain ranging from permafrost to desert, sea level to mountain range.

 

EMD offered a loco straight from their tried and tested parts bin that they knew from years of continual experience would just come together and work - that experience, quantity of build and simplicity of design is what makes them cheaper rather than the exchange rate.

 

No UK manufacturer has had years of continuous loco building experience since the 1960s, that's where to put the blame for the death of the UK loco building industry rather than "durned furriners". The "crumbs" that were ordered by BR (class 56, 58, 60) are nowhere near enough to support an industry over decades.

 

Having said all of that - something that might theoretically change with the exchange rate though is where they are assembled...I thought with 250 machines on the cards from an early stage a UK production line might have been worthwhile.

 

Anyhow, this US model railroader is hoping to get back to $2 to £1 days

[rob D2]

Good posts from nidg and ron there.personally I actually like 60s and sheds alike, different ends of the decade and very different designs. Remember of course that ews always planned to have the 250 sheds as well as the sixties and other types but competition put paid to a larger fleet.

 

I wonder if there is any slack in the mendip rail fleet for db to borrow more 59s ?

 

Are these viewed as better to work on ?

[beast66606]

A welcome return of a tug on the Dee Marsh yesterday.

 

60051 on 6M86, 13:18, Llanwern - Dee Marsh loaded steel passing Hawarden at 18:34, in very low light 1/40s @ f3.2

[Grimleygrid]

Nice photo Beast, good to see a 60 on a different working!

[Steadfast]

That doesn't half look good Dave! A proper loco on a steel once more.

The train loco (60071 I think) on 6V98 Lindsey-Westerleigh failed overnight, so the inward, and the 6E41 return later today is running with 60054 piloting the other tug. Should make a nice fot!

cheers

 

jo

 

 

[Fenway Park]

That explained why the Westerleigh depot was empty this morning when I drove up the M4. The usual 66 pairing were there this afternoon with the Robeston working.

[Steadfast]

Well the weather today wasn't the best, but double tugs was still a spectacle worth going to catch. Because the late arrival meant the train was still at Westerleigh after about 12.15, when 6B13 from Robeston arrives, there was the unusual occurance of 4 locos in the sidings. 59203 worked 6B13 in with 66165 DIT as insurance, and 60054 worked 6V98 from Lindsey and the 6E41 return with failed 60009 DIT. The pictures show the train shunting in the sidings, with 6B13 waiting to move into the terminal once the 60s have gone, and 60054 leading 60009 past Westerleigh Village at the foot crossing

The full collection from today is at http://joalder.fotopic.net/c1828728.html

cheers

 

jo

[Guest 34008Padstow]

Not a clear shot but thought id add this one

[Simon_R]

60040 seen alive and well today outside Burton-on-trent :-)

[the banker]

60051 shunting oil tanks outside my office window in Colnbrook this morning

[beast66606]

60085 made a welcome return to the LBT/FFPS circuit on Easter Monday - 05 April 2010

 

Didn't quite make it to the station for the train passing.

 

60085, MINI Pride of Oxford, on 6F74, 12:11, Liverpool Bulk Terminal - Fiddlers Ferry Power Station loaded HTAs, via Olive Mount

 

Back to Slutchers lane bridge - and in the meantime some "kind" soul had made off with my zoom lens, which I had stupidly left on the bridge in the heat of the chase - ho hum (pretty likely to be a fellow enthusiast too)

 

The classic shot ..

60085, MINI Pride of Oxford, on 6F09, 17:10, Fiddlers Ferry Power Station - Liverpool Bulk Terminal empty HTAs, via Olive Mount

 

And off to Walton to run round again, and then take the "high level" (via Earlestown) to Liverpool

[Grimleygrid]

Good work Beast nice photos.

 

Why have they suddenly required another loco up there? I am surprised that they haven't moved another 59 up there.

[The Stationmaster]

Interesting observations above from Ron and Nidge - making, I think, most of the salient points - EMD locos work straight out of the box, the Class 60s very definitely did not and needed a lot of development work plus a massive amount of TLC once in traffic to make them work.

 

In their first 6 months or so the Yeoman 59s suffered - if I recall correctly - only two failures which rated as 'casualties' under the BR recording system work, and one of those was defective AWS (kit supplied by BR Crewe works).

 

In user terms the EMD locos have always had higher availability figures and lower casualty rates and that is what matters to operators, planners, account executives, and accountants. It's just a shame that the 66s were built down to a price and suffer lots of faults from the Driver comfort viewpoint and there seems to be a persistent niggling accessibility problem with the translation of US design practice to UK loading gauge constraints and something not being easy to get at when the loco first goes into traffic.

 

As for seeing new large diesel locos of British design I think we can forget it - we've more or less sold our loco building industry down the river although perhaps British factories might one day get a chance to assemble something designed, and engined, from overseas.

 

As far as the Class 60s are concerned I think the answer is simple - they will last as long as their operating and maintenance cost justifies their continued existence; assuming there is traffic which needs their capability of course. They certainly won't remain in traffic on the basis of sentiment or because they were 'made in England' because if rail operators follow that sort of line they're as good as writing their suicide note.

[beast66606]

Good work Beast nice photos.

 

Why have they suddenly required another loco up there? I am surprised that they haven't moved another 59 up there.

 

It's on the way ... 59205 at Crewe being readied.

 

Just had a text which implies either 59201 or 60085 has failed and the loaded is double headed

 

Further text (Ta AV) - the 59 has slipped to a stand and is being assisted by the 60

 

A bit of rain on the bank and the 59 can't cope

[Grimleygrid]

It's on the way ... 59205 at Crewe being readied.

 

Just had a text which implies either 59201 or 60085 has failed and the loaded is double headed

 

Further text (Ta AV) - the 59 has slipped to a stand and is being assisted by the 60

 

I was just going to say that we all know which one has failed and it certainly wouldn't have 59 numbers on the side!

 

Have heard of a couple of occasions where the 59 has struggled, seems a bit strange as they have superior pulling power?

 

I did wonder if that was why 205 was as Crewe.

[beast66606]

I did wonder if that was why 205 was as Crewe.

 

Having extra large sandboxes fitted maybe

[Steadfast]

Further text (Ta AV) - the 59 has slipped to a stand and is being assisted by the 60

 

A bit of rain on the bank and the 59 can't cope

A couple of weeks back it was wet, and it took two attempts to get the 59 started with about 3000t on the drawbar at the Stop board on the entry to Westerleigh. There were 28 tanks and a 66 dead behind the 59. The track is flat, or slightly downhill, but has a tight ish curve. Mind you, back in the day, a 60 got 28 tanks moving whatever the weather. It seems although a 59 has more grunt, a 60 delivers it more easily

cheers

 

jo

[The Stationmaster]

A couple of weeks back it was wet, and it took two attempts to get the 59 started with about 3000t on the drawbar at the Stop board on the entry to Westerleigh. There were 28 tanks and a 66 dead behind the 59. The track is flat, or slightly downhill, but has a tight ish curve. Mind you, back in the day, a 60 got 28 tanks moving whatever the weather. It seems although a 59 has more grunt, a 60 delivers it more easily

cheers

 

jo

 

 

Something amiss there methinks - a 59 correctly handled should be able to easily start more than 4,000 tons trailing on a rising gradient on a curve, after all they have been doing that (and more) on stone trains for a very long time. Sounds almost as if the Super Creep is not working, or not working correctly - I wonder if there are some maintenance shortcomings nowadays and/or some shortcomings in Driver training.

[Glorious NSE]

Hmmm yes, these are the DBS maintained ones though not the somewhat carefully maintained Mendip pool of loco's...the super creep gear would certainly be non-standard kit for DBS to maintain...

['CHARD]

Hmmm yes, these are the DBS maintained ones though not the somewhat carefully maintained Mendip pool of loco's...the super creep gear would certainly be non-standard kit for DBS to maintain...

Sounds like these might be scary monsters for DBS then

 

I've already got my coat on, as it goes.

[Steadfast]

AFAIK the majority of maintenance on the DBS ones is still carried out at Merehead by Mendip Rail - certainly 205 had a major exam there before heading onto the Murcos, and 206 has reportedly been sat there for three weeks awaiting parts.

Indeed I meant to mention the stone trains in my post Mike, climbing away from the quarries is no easy task with 4000t+ in tow, which is why I was so surprised to see the struggle it had (59203 btw)

cheers

 

jo

[40044]

It was quite lucky (or not, depending on your point of view!) that 60085 was spare at Warrington this morning. The only other locos on hand were 40145 and 47815...