Kirkby Luneside (Original): End of the line....

[Physicsman]

Totally agree, in the 1970s Birkenhead still had a road with gas lights, very Victorian and creepy on foggy mornings / evenings.

 

Jeff - be wary of LEDs they are way too bright for most model uses.

 

Thanks Dave. No LEDs being used overtly. The Viessmann gas lamps operate at around 6 - 12V and give out a lovely "warm" white light which isn't overly bright. They look the part.

 

I used grain of rice lamps inside my buildings, btw.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

That's why I like this thread so much too... Now, this is starting to sound like the plot of a 60's B movie. Maybe Jason should put up a few posters advertising it at the local theatre...

 

No, not caves, just that the Yorkshire attitude would make sure that all the light from the candle was used inside the house...

 

They had CANDLES in Yorkshire? If I'd known that in the 60s I'd have been so jealous! Better than rubbing sticks together in Bedfordshire, eh?

Jeff

[Jason T]

'Thomas and the Dinosaur-infested Volcano, featuring Cybertron', the book that the Rev W Awdry's publisher thought best left alone.

"Good Gracious" said Annie to Clarabel, "That velociraptor looks like it may be overpowering Cybertron, who is quite obviously somewhat damaged from stumbling into that lava flow earlier on". "Is that Spiderman that I see on Henry's footplate?" replied Clarabel; "He should be able to offer some assistance, especially as he appears to be carrying Obi Wan Kenobi's light sabre"

 

A best seller in the making

[MichaelW]

They had CANDLES in Yorkshire? If I'd known that in the 60s I'd have been so jealous! Better than rubbing sticks together in Bedfordshire, eh?

 

So I'm reliably informed... Must say that when I was living in Bedfordshire in the early 80's, we did have that new fangled electrickery.

[Physicsman]

'Thomas and the Dinosaur-infested Volcano, featuring Cybertron', the book that the Rev W Awdry's publisher thought best left alone.

"Good Gracious" said Annie to Clarabel, "That velociraptor looks like it may be overpowering Cybertron, who is quite obviously somewhat damaged from stumbling into that lava flow earlier on". "Is that Spiderman that I see on Henry's footplate?" replied Clarabel; "He should be able to offer some assistance, especially as he appears to be carrying Obi Wan Kenobi's light sabre"

 

A best seller in the making

 

Come on Jason - try to be a bit more imaginative!!

Jeff

[uax6]

Blimey You lot have been busy!

 

Rob, I hope that you have found the ideas batted around useful?

 

Jeff, I like the fact that you had a model of my van on your last layout, mind you the ladder-rack is in the wrong place, it should be mounted on the nearside.... ;-} BTW, I look out of the windows here in work and look straight at a Provender store! It's now painted black (on the uprights) and white on the panels.

 

With regards to lighting, (Jeff you are probably going to hate me here!) is that people use Continental model Lamps, which, invariably, are of Continental design. Mikes models used to do some nice whitemetal lamps for quite a few UK companies (these are being produced again, but I can't think by whom. They also did MR yard cranes). You will probably find that the lamps should be Oil, not gas (although the MR did install its own gas works in some stations), so would be a differing design yet again. You will have to study the photos you have got for the S&C for the era that you are modelling. Even the Signalbox might only have two lamps, one near the book, and one (maybe two if it was big) somewhere over the frame.

I also suggest googling british streetlamps and looking at some of the results, as the designs for UK lamps and columns are distinct, and there are plenty of collectors out there! (I'd like an ESLA for my drive one day!).

 

Again, it's all part of the fun of researching your model! (I have a drawing for an LMS lamptop scanned if you want it?)

 

Andy G (still no signs of nudes, although I bet they would be a bit burnt near the volanco!)

Edited November 27, 2012 by uax6

[robmcg]

Rob, I've had a look at the templot data for track panels and sleeper spacing - for 60ft track panels, standard sleepering seems to be 24, 25, or 26 per length - with reduced spacing at the ends - so from the end, sleeper centers are at 12", then 26.5", 27.5", 28.5", staying at 29.5" till they start reducing again at the other end. Fairly sure that 24 per length uses 31" spacing, and gets there slightly quicker.

 

I don't remember seeing in the track manual I've glanced at spacings for less than 24 per length.

 

rounded off, sleeper gaps 4mm , 9mm , 9.2mm , 9.5mm , 9.8mm , then 15 at 9.8mm -ish then back to 4mm per 60' length, but since my lengths are 248mm not 240mm the one adds a squidgeon to each gap, occasionally, and observes to oneself that there is no such thing as a straight line in nature.

 

actually it will be 4.1 9.2 9.5 9.9 10 or there abouts till it looks right

 

easy as lighting an oil lamp in a freezing gale at Ribblehead really...

 

You can sleep easily now Jeff.

 

Rob

Edited November 27, 2012 by robmcg

[Physicsman]

rounded off, sleeper gaps 4mm , 9mm , 9.2mm , 9.5mm , 9.8mm , then 14 at 9.8mm -ish then back to 4mm per 60' length, but since my lengths are 248mm not 240mm the one adds a squidgeon to each gap, occasionally, and observes to oneself that there is no such thing as a straight line in nature.

 

easy as lighting an oil lamp in a freezing gale at Ribblehead really...

 

You can sleep easily now Jeff.

 

Rob

 

Evening Rob,

 

It's been a very quiet day on the thread - almost as if everyone here IS asleep! Hopefully I might get something done tomorrow when I start work on the first tunnel mouth. I have some ideas in my mind, we'll see what happens.

 

Glad you've got your rail dimensions sorted!

 

Jeff

[ChrisN]

Reply generally to lighting. I had thought about, and may still, put lighting inside my station building not because I want to run the railway with the lights off but because I have detailed the inside and it is either that or leaving the lid roof loose and charging people 50p to look inside.

[Physicsman]

I think that when it comes down to it we are all free to do exactly what we like. I happen to have a lot of (quality) lighting from my old layout. So while I may not light up all the buildings, I'll certainly put some street lights in. I'm also not a slave to the prototype - I use the original to guide me. I never want to be someone who engages in conversations that my signs were a scale inch too small or my cess had the wrong kind of ashes. I just want to create the right atmosphere and impression. So £200 worth of existing lighting isn't going to go to waste for the sake of buying more.

 

The point I'm making is that we should do what we feel works for us on our layouts. Rule 1 applies and if people don't like what you do, well, they can go and look at something else.

 

No, I'm not in a mood here. I think - and I've given this a lot of consideration here - that there are SO many choices that, in the end, you should take advice, make a decision and do what's right for you. Scott (Jukebox) - this is what we discussed in PMs a few weeks ago. Take advice and then proceed in your own way.

 

Chris - if you fancy lighting - do it. Some like it, some don't. It's your layout - so you don't have to justify your choices to anyone but yourself.

 

Jeff

Edited November 27, 2012 by Physicsman

[MichaelW]

Well said that man - it is indeed for us to decide what we do with our layouts. Advice is freely given on here, and hopefully our input is welcomed and listened to (of course, that doesn't mean it has to be followed). The problem starts when opinion becomes an absolute...

 

Lights are needed to finish off the scene - working or not is up to the builder of the layout, but a station with no lamps does look wrong. (Unless it's a halt in the middle of nowhere...)

 

How is the other half of the fiddle-yard Jeff? Are you still awaiting points?

[Physicsman]

Hi Michael. I've got 3 54"/36" turnouts ordered. It's a standard configuration, but for the first time since I started buying them, Marcway didn't have any in stock. So I've had to wait until a new batch is ready...hopefully not too much longer!

 

I've done very little over the last 2 days due to other commitments. But I've made some estimates from photos and will start work on the tunnel portals tomorrow. My previous post was caused more by my study of the tunnels than the lights. There are no plans available, so "estimate" is what I'm going to do - tunnel portals in the style of the S&C (including those gorgeous run-offs) but not a slavish copy! I'm hopeful (so this will probably ruin the whole thing) the construction will only take a few days... ha, ha!

 

Jeff

[MichaelW]

I'm sure it will only take a few days. The problem is minimising the number of wasted days of experimentation getting to the point that you can build them in a few. I shall look forward to seeing the result.

 

Bailey Bridges may start again on Friday, I'll be able to get some smaller I-beams at Wakefield, then I'll see what I can do with them. I'm really looking forward to getting to do something like this again.

[Jason T]

My opinions were just that, mine, and I know that a lot of people disagree and that is cool and the gang. If I had £200 of lights knocking around, then would I throw them out because some tit on the Internet said he didn't like them? Would I heckers like

 

Thing is, I reckon my points are valid and whether we choose to aim for unreachable levels of realism or do what we like, then things like that are still worth considering in my opinion (I sound really opinionated today, don't I? )

 

Anyway, does anyone know where I can get a DCC ready Stegasaurus?

Edited November 27, 2012 by Sandside

[Physicsman]

Jason, don't get me wrong. My comments weren't focussed on what you'd said at all. I happen to agree with your viewpoint - working lighting isn't necessary on a layout and is frequently overdone. I spent far too much money on those Viessmann lamps and far too much of my time wiring the damn things up! It looked pretty, visitors were impressed, but it was way over-the-top! But I'll certainly do some tasteful, and minimal, (harummph!!) lighting on KL

 

As for OO gauge dinosaur models... I think I saw an ad on TV tonight for them - buy the latest Wii U product and you get a Stegosaur, Triceratops and Percy TTT engine free!

 

Btw, as I've said previously, I don't think you are opinionated in anything but a normal way. I'm far more likely to take your advice than some of the to**ers I've seen making occasional contributions on other threads. At least you know what you are talking about and your thread is a shining example of good modelling practice!

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

I'm sure it will only take a few days. The problem is minimising the number of wasted days of experimentation getting to the point that you can build them in a few. I shall look forward to seeing the result.

 

Bailey Bridges may start again on Friday, I'll be able to get some smaller I-beams at Wakefield, then I'll see what I can do with them. I'm really looking forward to getting to do something like this again.

 

Michael - I'm looking forward to seeing how you build them. Post plenty of pics.

 

Jason - I've ordered that Orbital album from Amazon ... delivery in about a week, so I'll give you my opinion when I've played it a couple of times!

 

Jeff

[jukebox]

When all else fails, Rule #1 is the most important thing to remember!

 

The lighting question is a vexxed one: having accquired a brace of Bachmann Mk.1 Pullmans to emulate the Tees-Tyne Pullman, I was more than happy to be a guinea pig test subject for Richard from DCCconcepts new Lighted Dining Tables - it helped me upgrade a pair of Railroad Brake Third's to lighted status.

 

The (relative) downside is 1) now the Hornby's look better then the Bachmanns and 2) I have one lighted coaching set - but three our four other trains worth that aren't.

 

I think Jason's theory is very sound - to do lighting properly would take a lot of skill, time, and money. But I also think there's room for it from a "play value" perspective - so, for instance, I wouldn't remove the pick ups from my lighted coaches just to derogate them down to the standard of the rest of my fleet.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

[robmcg]

Wot's all this about lighting? Trackwork! That's what we want.... all agreement from here about freedom to model in own ways.

 

Dry run with 25 sleepers/248mm yes, 3 of the wooden wedges in the chairs are wrongly? installed left-hand... bottom left... not sure if they varied in real life... Glue shortly after final tweaking, then a book weight, gauge check after 10-20 mins and overnight glue setting.

 

[MichaelW]

That's looking good Rob. Did you go with the double sided tape in the end?

[Rowsley17D]

That's looking good Rob. Did you go with the double sided tape in the end?

 

Looks like it, you can just make it out in the photo if you look very hard.

[uax6]

Sorry Jeff If I've spouted off too much about lamps! It was only meant as a general thing to help try and show that some things you can buy are not quite correct! You are correct in that rule 1 aplies and after spending £200 I'd want to re-use them too!

 

Anyway, back to the job in hand. I asked in work if I could get hold of any drawings of the portals, and the result was a deathly quiet! Ah well, I did try.

 

Rob, the keys on the track can be put in either way round. They tend to be put in on the side that the rails moves away from (as the rail gets dragged with braking etc) so that they get forced into the chair more.

 

Andy

[Physicsman]

Back to Kirkby Luneside!

 

I've made a series of measurements on 5 different photos of the Blea Moor northern portal and obtained the dimensions of the key parts of the fascia. Using the 5 pictures - only one taken from an almost front-on view (viewed from a train) - has generated very consistent results. So I'm confident of these dimensions to within about 6", 2mm in OO. I think that's quite acceptable considering that I'm not trying to produce a slavish copy.

 

One oddity/characteristic is the oval shape of the tunnel mouth itself. I've decided to replicate this, though it'll make the brickwork around the entrance a bit trickier to scribe.

 

So I now have a diagram with approximate dimensions, real and scale and it's time to start converting this into some drawings on 3mm MDF...

 

I'll see what I can do, photo-wise, later.

 

Jeff

[Physicsman]

Sorry Jeff If I've spouted off too much about lamps! It was only meant as a general thing to help try and show that some things you can buy are not quite correct! You are correct in that rule 1 aplies and after spending £200 I'd want to re-use them too!

 

Anyway, back to the job in hand. I asked in work if I could get hold of any drawings of the portals, and the result was a deathly quiet! Ah well, I did try.

 

Rob, the keys on the track can be put in either way round. They tend to be put in on the side that the rails moves away from (as the rail gets dragged with braking etc) so that they get forced into the chair more.

 

Andy

 

Andy - and everyone else - please do not apologise! We all have our views on different matters and it's good to hear them - they are all very helpful.

 

At the end of the day, we do our best - and sometimes compromises have to be made .... as with these tunnel faces! Andy, as you can see in my previous post, I've resorted to measuring photos. I don't think it'll be too far out! Thanks for looking.

 

Jeff

Edited November 28, 2012 by Physicsman

[Physicsman]

Here is a photo of my measurements for the portal...

 

 

I've hit a practical snag which has stopped work completely for the moment. The diagram is based on the 6 foot spacing between the mainlines, 24mm in OO. However, the mainline separation on my layout is set at 30mm. In addition, there is a complication of exactly where the rail goes between leaving the viaduct, passing through the tunnel and then into the fiddle yard. Why is this? Because only half the yard is laid - I'm awaiting turnouts.

 

So until I know the exact rail separation at the position of the tunnel mouth (it may still be 30mm) I won't know what factor to scale the sizes shown in the diagram. I'll just have to wait. Fortunately I've worked out how I'm going to build the structure, so I can proceed once the other track is down.

 

Jeff

Edited November 28, 2012 by Physicsman

[MichaelW]

That's an incredibly neat sketch, but it does capture the look of the prototype. How are you going to deal with the widened 6ft? Stetch it sideways, or make the whole thing bigger? I guess you'll have to be careful to not lose the elliptical shape of the arch.