RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted May 19, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 19, 2015 (edited) Ass washers. Sponges on sticks. Reputedly invented by the Romans. Not that clever as were multi user I believe...................... L.E. Gion Edit: to apologise for reducing the thread to toilet humour (but Coachman started it Sir/Miss......... ) Edited May 19, 2015 by Mallard60022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 7007GreatWestern Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 I wondered if the new Hornby Collett "Hall" would make a better candidate for conversion to a "Modified" than the new Bachmann model. On paper, it has quite a lot going for it. The Hornby has a motor smoothed by a flywheel, tender pickup and (I think) DCC socket located in the tender. It is also better in some respects than the Bachmann model - the slide bars in particular are streets ahead and the boiler banding is less overscale. What's more the Railroad models can be had for barely half the price of the Bachmann model. What would be involved? Well, you'd have to source your own Hawksworth bogie, though Comet do a kit for that. You would also have to replace the cab handrails and steam pipes. Neither of these is a great loss as they are among the worst features of the Hornby model. You would also have to deal with the protruding plate frames, revised smokebox saddle and that (now notorious) footplating under the smokebox. I would have thought it would be reasonable easy to make the visible plate frame sections and saddle from plasticard. Alternatively, could this be made as a "slide-in" component by means of 3d-printing? When it come to cutting out the "curved drop" in the footplate between frames, well, at least you're cutting into plastic rather than mazac. The $64,000 question however, is whether it is necessary to cut back the Hornby chassis as Brian Kirby has had to do with the Bachmann offering. There is good news and bad. The bad news is that Hornby's chassis block follows the contour of the Collett "curved drop" exactly as Bachmann's. This suggests that Hornby certainly weren't mindful of a future "Modified" while designing their Collett "Hall". The good news is that Hornby have positioned their mounting screw rearward of the front face of the pistons. So, it would not be necessary to find an alternative means of securing the front of the body to the chassis. Additionally, you would have to modify the bracket that supports the boiler just for'ard of the front splasher. Can anyone think of any other changes that would have to be made? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 7007GreatWestern Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Does anyone on the forum have the capability to design a 3-D printed Hawksworth bogie to enable conversion of a Hornby Collett "Hall" to a "Modified Hall"? They would of course need access to an appropriate GA drawing and CAD software capable of producing STL files for submission to a bureau such as Shapeways. Said print would of course have to be capable of attaching to the Hornby chassis, and take standard bogie wheel axles. Because it would be for a niche market it could be produced with no front coupling and could represent the distinctive plate across the front face. The closest I have to CAD software is an elderly version of Sketchup which I think does not allow STL export. Sorry. There are however some very bright sparks on RMWeb for whom this would be child's play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 We're on the final stretch, these pics show the new footplate parts going in, since i have to glue these, i've elected to use plasticard, mostly black. I started with the floor to get the level, then used a wedge of filed down white plasticard under the saddle. When these had set, i added the side sections, which can be seen lying ready in front of the buffer beam. A few spots of superglue attach the plastic parts to the mazak and works well as a handy gap filler, a thin coat of satin black covers imperfections, my rivet pattern is part guesswork and part based on photos kindly found above. (Correction: Earlier i was wondering what metal they had used on the body? Well the footplate is certainly metal, but the boiler outer is of course a plastic moulding, but with a very snug-fitting mazak plug inside.) BK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Here's the re-erected loco, 6988 is now ready to re-enter service, i'll add a fine wire coupling bar later. Cheers, Brian. 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 7007GreatWestern Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Here's the re-erected loco, 6988 is now ready to re-enter service, i'll add a fine wire coupling bar later. Cheers, Brian. CIMG4829.JPG CIMG4830.JPG CIMG4832.JPG CIMG4834.JPG Brian, That looks absolutely superb. I'm amazed what a difference your mod makes. Now it really looks and feels like a Modified Hall! It's a great credit to your ingenuity and nerve. Not everyone would fancy carving ruddy great lumps out of a £100+ model. I have a couple of questions for you. Firstly, how did you represent the rivets on the Plasticard? It looks very convincing. Also, have you been able to run the loco at all? Does it perform well at low speeds when pulling away from standing? Is it able to pull a decent load? Does its performance differ from the earlier Bachmann Collett "Halls"? Thanks once again and best regards, Andy (aka 7007GreatWestern). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locoholic Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Marvellous work, Brian. I wish I could saw that straight with a piercing saw. I hope someone from Bachmann sees your work, and what a big difference it makes to the appearance of the model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Downer Posted May 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2015 Watching Brian Kirby's brilliant work I feel almost glad Bachmann buggered it up. Modelling wins the day! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) With these modifications the model now looks like a Modified 'Hall'!!! Well carried out Brian. No doubt the Bachmann folk will have looked at this and may be wishing they had taken more care. I can see now that it was no small mistake. At worse, Bachmann might be seen to have taken a cavalier attitude that has possibly dented confidence in the company in the same way that 'design clever' undermined Hornby's position. Edited May 20, 2015 by coachmann 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TrevorP1 Posted May 20, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2015 Great work Brian! Admiring your nerve at attacking a brand new model. Now it looks like a Modified Hall! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froxfield2012 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Great work indeed Brian. Like others, I wish I had those skills as your changes make a real difference. Although the detailed pictures make it look so straightforward that I might.......No, don't even think about it. Brilliant email chain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 We are a bit short on photos. So how does the rest of it stack up against the Replibach model especially that firebox front band 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) With these modifications the model now looks like a Modified 'Hall'!!! Well carried out Brian. No doubt the Bachmann folk will have looked at this and may be wishing they had taken more care. I can see now that it was no small mistake. .... ...which sort of suggests that RTR isn't the answer to everything! Hopefully there'll be nothing mechanically wrong developing, as the guarantee has been well and truly invalidated. .....how does the rest of it stack up against the Replibach model especially that firebox front band I've got the Replica body somewhere, and the front frames on that were a bit shonky. Your photo confirms it. Edited May 20, 2015 by Horsetan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) Thanks again chaps and chapesses, The rivets were done using the "rivets for cheats" technique, joking aside they're just off-white indian ink dots from a drawing pen. They wouldn't stand up to close inspection in a showcase, but they suffice for a quick glance, especially since i don't know the precise pattern, in any case bulbous rivets tend to catch the light, so that's what they really represent. My 6988 is not the smoothest runner of late, but to be fair it hasn't been run-in yet, no doubt a bit of tweaking will sort any problems. Afraid i can't report yet on pulling power, the old Replica/Bachmann like the above "Mere Hall" could just about pull the skin off a rice pudding, let's hope 6988 is stronger. Years ago i altered a "Mere Hall", by making the front tender bearings deliberately sloppy, making the tender nose-dive on it's own. Adding extra weight to the tender and hanging the tender front on the cab coupling, increased traction on the rear loco axle. It's a bit of a copy of one of Mike Sharman's techniques from the 1970s. Cheer's Brian. Edited May 7, 2016 by Brian Kirby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDJR7F88 Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 A review of the new re-tooled Bachmann Modified Hall Class, in smart BR Early Lined Black Livery Weathered. Developed by Frederick Hawksworth, 71 of the Class where built from 1944 to 1950. The Class where a Charles Collett's original Hall design, featuring a number of modifications, including a new designed running plate, plate frame bogie and larger three-row superheater.Bachmann first released the re-tooled version of the Modified Hall back in 2013, but due to a number of errors with the design Bachmann made the choice to recall the model. Now in 2015 the new updated version of the model has arrived, featuring many changes and improvement on the first release. Sadly there are still a few issues with the design, some of which will be picked up in the review. Still, the models level of detail and livery application is up to Bachmann high-standards, plus running performance too, after a thorough run in. Hope you enjoy! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulmVtZSKAd4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Can anyone confirm that the Bachmann cab front is (still) recessed between the cabsides? This might be another error...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 7007GreatWestern Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 Hello bigherb, You were asking about the "Replibach" Modified Hall model. In his book "Building 4mm Loco Kits" no less a figure than Tony Wright said of it "Here's Bachmann's Modified Hall - quite a little beauty, wouldn't you say?" (Page 52.) High praise indeed from a staunch LNER man! It was a very good model by the standards of its day. It was light years ahead of its contemporary, the Dapol "County". The main cosmetic flaw of the model was the rather bulbous firebox. It didn't capture the wasp-waisted Belpaire shape as well as the later Collett "Hall". The main problem with the model overall was the spilt chassis. I had two and foolishly sold them when Bachmann announced they would be producing a "Modified Hall" to modern standards. They looked good and ran like Swiss watches. Oh well, you live and learn..... I believe it is now difficult to get spares for them. We are a bit short on photos. So how does the rest of it stack up against the Replibach model especially that firebox front band Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted May 21, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2015 . I had two and foolishly sold them when Bachmann announced they would be producing a "Modified Hall" to modern standards. I sold mine too and now wish I hadn't. I thought Bachmann had announced the (previous attempt at a) new Modified Hall as a chassis upgrade only, to replace the split chassis. In this case it's a real pity they didn't stick to just that, leaving the original body alone. Surely that would have been a cheaper option than this half-hearted and compromised attempt at a new body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 If there is a market for an accurate Modified 'Hall', it wouldn't surprise me if Hornby were working on one even as I type this and lots of little men in China are busy sawing rectangles out of chassis blocks in readiness.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDJR7F88 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 If there is a market for an accurate Modified 'Hall', it wouldn't surprise me if Hornby were working on one even as I type this and lots of little men in China are busy sawing rectangles out of chassis blocks in readiness.... Would certainly be interesting if they did! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDJR7F88 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 A few more screen shots from my resent review of the Modified Hall. Hope they are of help and again sorry about the low quality of the images. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulmVtZSKAd4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I cannot understand why the error on the front running plate between the frames. It was correct on the old replica/Bachmann split chassis ones. I guess I won,t be replacing the older model after all. Another peeve, and this I will shall with the standard Halls, there is still no provision for fitting DCC sound on these models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster83G Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I was looking forward to the arrival of the Modified Hall and had placed a pre-order with my faithful supplier but the error with the front-end was too noticeable. Given the increasing cost of models I expect what I am purchasing to be a faithful reproduction of the prototype and not to require major surgery. My order was cancelled. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveb860 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Well, despite it's errors, the modified Halls have sold very well, so I guess a lot of people are not that put off by it, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted May 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2015 Well, despite it's errors, the modified Halls have sold very well, so I guess a lot of people are not that put off by it, Really? I've been looking at Hereford Model Centre website since they arrived and I'd question that assumption.Stock levels remain constant at 24.Don't all kill yourselves in the rush and I hope this post generates sales.Usual disclaimers apply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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