Help wanted: replacement wheelsets

[signalmaintainer]

I'm a bit perplexed when it comes to selecting correct replacement OO gauge wheelsets. I have three Mainline/Bachmann 57-foot coaches with plastic wheels, and a several Bachmann wagons that I wish to convert to prototypically correct -- if they're not so already -- metal wheelsets.

 

I'm not really certain how to determine which diameter is correct for which model, whether to opt for spoked vs. discs, holes or no holes, etc. I don't want to assume that what's on the model is correct and just let it go at that.

 

Can someone please point me in the right direction? Also, any recommendations on manufacturers?

 

Thanks!

[Adrian Wintle]

Paul;

 

The basic rule of thumb is that coaches and non-passenger coaching stock should use 3'6" wheels (14mm) while goods stock should be on 3' (12mm) wheels. There are, of course, numerous exceptions, but this works in most cases.

 

For the coaches, you could try the Bachmann coach disc wheels - they are relatively cheap, but run well. I have found that the axles tend to be just a bit short in some cases, giving a bit of wheel slop. I've never tried the new Hornby 14mm coach disc wheels, so I can't comment on them. I tend to use Gibson or Romford coach disc wheels, but the costs go with these wheels.

 

For wagons, Hornby or Gibson wheels tend to be my choices. The type of wheel is dependent on the wagon and the vintage. Older wagons (like most private owner wagons) would be on spoked wheels, while newer wagons (like BR mineral wagons) would be on 3-hole discs. Bachmann tend to put the correct type of wheels on their wagons, but again there are exceptions.

 

Adrian

[billbedford]

I'm not really certain how to determine which diameter is correct for which model, whether to opt for spoked vs. discs, holes or no holes, etc. I don't want to assume that what's on the model is correct and just let it go at that.

Without reference to photographs you are never going to know whether you model is correct.

[signalmaintainer]

Without reference to photographs you are never going to know whether you model is correct.

Yes, well, I have access to hundreds of photos,none of which tell me about correct wheel diameter.

[signalmaintainer]

Paul;

 

The basic rule of thumb is that coaches and non-passenger coaching stock should use 3'6" wheels (14mm) while goods stock should be on 3' (12mm) wheels. There are, of course, numerous exceptions, but this works in most cases.

 

For the coaches, you could try the Bachmann coach disc wheels - they are relatively cheap, but run well. I have found that the axles tend to be just a bit short in some cases, giving a bit of wheel slop. I've never tried the new Hornby 14mm coach disc wheels, so I can't comment on them. I tend to use Gibson or Romford coach disc wheels, but the costs go with these wheels.

 

For wagons, Hornby or Gibson wheels tend to be my choices. The type of wheel is dependent on the wagon and the vintage. Older wagons (like most private owner wagons) would be on spoked wheels, while newer wagons (like BR mineral wagons) would be on 3-hole discs. Bachmann tend to put the correct type of wheels on their wagons, but again there are exceptions.

 

Adrian

 

Thanks, Adrian. That certainly gets me going in the right direction! Much appreciated.

[billbedford]

Yes, well, I have access to hundreds of photos,none of which tell me about correct wheel diameter.

Wot?? You have no access to any drawings at all which give wheel dimension? no books, no magazines, no internet?

[Guest 40-something]

Hi

 

I use Hornby 12mm 3 hole wheels on my goods stock (60/70's era) and 14mm coach wheels on coaches either from Hornby or Bachmann. I think wagons such as the lowmac use 10.5mm wheels, Im sure Gibson do these wheelsets

 

Hope this helps

[kevinlms]

Paul;

 

The basic rule of thumb is that coaches and non-passenger coaching stock should use 3'6" wheels (14mm) while goods stock should be on 3' (12mm) wheels. There are, of course, numerous exceptions, but this works in most cases.

 

For the coaches, you could try the Bachmann coach disc wheels - they are relatively cheap, but run well. I have found that the axles tend to be just a bit short in some cases, giving a bit of wheel slop. I've never tried the new Hornby 14mm coach disc wheels, so I can't comment on them. I tend to use Gibson or Romford coach disc wheels, but the costs go with these wheels.

 

For wagons, Hornby or Gibson wheels tend to be my choices. The type of wheel is dependent on the wagon and the vintage. Older wagons (like most private owner wagons) would be on spoked wheels, while newer wagons (like BR mineral wagons) would be on 3-hole discs. Bachmann tend to put the correct type of wheels on their wagons, but again there are exceptions.

 

Adrian

 

Upto Mk2 coaches, almost all coaching stock used 3'6" wheels (14mm in 4mm scale), then 3' or 12mm. Modern stock imported probably has wheels around the same size.

 

Wagons almost all used 3' or 12mm. Main exceptions being early (19th Century Brakes - 3'6") were 3 ', or special wagons (typically Lowmac's or container flats 2' 8", I think). Very few of the total fleet would be exceptions though.

 

Kevin Martin

[signalmaintainer]

Wot?? You have no access to any drawings at all which give wheel dimension? no books, no magazines, no internet?

 

Of course I have internet, which is why I'm able to come this site and request assistance. As to the other sources, no, else I would not be asking for assistance.

 

In your initial post, you used the word "photographs," not "books," "magazines" or "internet." If you can direct me to a magazine, web site or book that has photographs of wheel dimensions, please do so. Otherwise, I'm tending to think you're being intentionally provocative rather than helpful.

[signalmaintainer]

Kevin and Joe, thanks for your help!

[billbedford]

In your initial post, you used the word "photographs," not "books," "magazines" or "internet." If you can direct me to a magazine, web site or book that has photographs of wheel dimensions, please do so. Otherwise, I'm tending to think you're being intentionally provocative rather than helpful.

I'm having real difficultly reconciling your wish to make your stock 'correct' without doing even minimal research in published sources. I'm guessing that you have already assumed that the information you've been given today is substantially correct.

[Andy Y]

Otherwise, I'm tending to think you're being intentionally provocative rather than helpful.

 

I concur.

 

Bill; there's some sensible foundation advice given to a reader who may not be as able, given his location, to obtain further resource information without some guidance. Please stop being so grumpy and winding people up or you'll go back on the queue where postings are checked by a member of the team before being released.

[craigwelsh]

Upto Mk2 coaches, almost all coaching stock used 3'6" wheels (14mm in 4mm scale), then 3' or 12mm. Modern stock imported probably has wheels around the same size.

Actually all coaching stock up to the BR mk1 stock used 3' 7 1/2"  (14.5mm) wheels as standard, BR went for 3'6 after a lot of research into newer oils etc and went for the smaller wheels later on when they could justify the cost of roller bearings. That is a pedantic prototype point however and Hornby disc wheels were 14mm exactly last time I checked. The finescale manufacturers however aim for the 14.5mm diameter mainly to replicate the earlier larger wheels.

 

Don't forget many early models compromised on 12mm wheels on coaches to have the flanges below the solebar level and therefore buffer heights could be compromised if you fitted 14mm wheels to these. I can't remember if these coaches would have been compromised, I think it was mainly Hornby offerings at the time.

 

Wagons were mainly 3' 1 1/2" too.

[brossard]

And some not so early models - the Dapol Stove R being one example. After some struggle I (and I'm sure many others) got 14mm wheels in and it runs well.

 

John

[MJI]

The B4 B5 and BT10 BR bogies are all 3 foot / 12mm

 

Lots of Mark 1s got fitted with B4s or B5s

[Jamie]

Paul you appear to be using C&L track on Ettinsmoor? If so, I find Hornby metal wheelsets can bounce along the chairs due to coarser flanges.

If you are keen on the economy of metal wheels from the RtR big boys as opposed the smaller suppliers, I'd recommend the Bachmann option. But I only use such as a temporary fix before Gibson/Maygib/whoever's wheels go in for further improved appearance.

[Guest 40-something]

Paul you appear to be using C&L track on Ettinsmoor? If so, I find Hornby metal wheelsets can bounce along the chairs due to coarser flanges.

If you are keen on the economy of metal wheels from the RtR big boys as opposed the smaller suppliers, I'd recommend the Bachmann option. But I only use such as a temporary fix before Gibson/Maygib/whoever's wheels go in for further improved appearance.

 

I don't know how c&l compares to peco code 75, I have no probs with the flanges riding on the chairs, I do agree that the Bachmann wheelsets have finer flanges

[Jamie]

Yeah, chairs stick further up the railside (bullhead rail vs Peco's flatbottom). On mine, Hornby wheels run OK on the scenic part (SMP track), but rattle along the chairs on the fiddle yards (C&L).

[signalmaintainer]

Thanks to everyone who's responded with advice. I'm definitely on better ground now and can move ahead with more confidence. Just a matter of referring to photos for the type of wheels as the dimameters are pretty much in the bag.

 

Things are bit easier on this side of the pond re: wheelsets for the past 100 or so years of standard-gauge railroads (33-inch, ribs or no ribs; 36-inch and 28-inch, all disc and no slots).

 

Yeah, chairs stick further up the railside (bullhead rail vs Peco's flatbottom). On mine, Hornby wheels run OK on the scenic part (SMP track), but rattle along the chairs on the fiddle yards (C&L).

 

Jamie, I'm using SMP BH rail. No problem with flanges striking it.

 

But the low-profile sleepers do make it a challenge to ballast!

[brossard]

As you're in NA you might find this useful for suppliers and other info:

 

http://home.ca.inter.net/~brmna/

 

John

[kevinlms]

Actually all coaching stock up to the BR mk1 stock used 3' 7 1/2" (14.5mm) wheels as standard, BR went for 3'6 after a lot of research into newer oils etc and went for the smaller wheels later on when they could justify the cost of roller bearings. That is a pedantic prototype point however and Hornby disc wheels were 14mm exactly last time I checked. The finescale manufacturers however aim for the 14.5mm diameter mainly to replicate the earlier larger wheels.

 

Don't forget many early models compromised on 12mm wheels on coaches to have the flanges below the solebar level and therefore buffer heights could be compromised if you fitted 14mm wheels to these. I can't remember if these coaches would have been compromised, I think it was mainly Hornby offerings at the time.

 

Wagons were mainly 3' 1 1/2" too.

 

I always understood there was a wear allowance (3" rings a bell), so that 3' 7 1/2" would be a brand new tyre, a fully worn tyre 3' 4 1/2", so a 14mm at 3' 6" is a good compromise. Wagons pro-rata so 12mm is similarily good.

 

Kevin Martin

[billbedford]

Things are bit easier on this side of the pond re: wheelsets for the past 100 or so years of standard-gauge railroads (33-inch, ribs or no ribs; 36-inch and 28-inch, all disc and no slots).

Yerbut, in 101 different axle lengths........

I just been through that minefield.

[Guest 40-something]

Yeah, chairs stick further up the railside (bullhead rail vs Peco's flatbottom). On mine, Hornby wheels run OK on the scenic part (SMP track), but rattle along the chairs on the fiddle yards (C&L).

 

Interesting to know that Jamie, thanks. My side project will be using finer track than Peco so will go with SMP!

[craigwelsh]

I always understood there was a wear allowance (3" rings a bell), so that 3' 7 1/2" would be a brand new tyre, a fully worn tyre 3' 4 1/2", so a 14mm at 3' 6" is a good compromise. Wagons pro-rata so 12mm is similarily good.

 

Kevin Martin

Yes there will be wear allowances but I wanted to make sure the correct nominal values were out there. Gibson, Exactoscale and Maygib wheels are closer to the 14.5mm anyway for example if you go beyond the wheels of the RTR manufacturers.

 

C+L and Exactoscale have much more scale chairs for their BH rail track hence very overscale flanges do have issues with them. The blobs on SMP track are a bit underscale to give more compatibility.

[edcayton]

There are several photo's of (old) wagons with different types of wheel on the two axles. No idea how common it was though, and probably more so in "internal user" wagons in collieries etc. I'd guess they would be at least nominally the same diameter though!

 

Ed