Hawthorn Dene

[Les1952]

Les,

 

I'm late to this, so I hope you're still progressing. I'm also very interested in the Durham Coast line (in N Gauge).

 

You mention COVHOPs going to Bristish Steel and ICI, but I saw lots of them go to and from Steetley at West Hartlepool. I think they may have come from Thrislington and probably by a Southern approach, unfortunately. But perhaps they also travelled further North on the Coast line.

 

A couple of thoughts on sources, if you still need any:

 

- The North Eastern Railway Association produces a number of inexpensive booklets - Line Diagrams of the NER Stockton - Hartlepool - Sunderland - Newcastle; Workings of Local Freight Trains.... Darlington District 1953; Passenger Locomotive Working Darlington, Newcastle and Sunderland Districts 1948 all give useful background, though I realise they're a bit early for your setting. Google will help to update the line diagrams (1920s) but relevant photos will help show what infrastructure was still current in the 1960s.

 

- Pictorial sources abound on the Web - Time Capsules as part of the Photo Forums website is free - if you look for a contributor called Chris Davies, he has lots of pictures of NE England including a set showing a WD tour including Hawthorn Colliery - definitely worth the trouble.

 

Regards,

 

Roy Marshall

 

Many thanks for this-  I have pictures of the Covhops at Billingham so know about the Southern route- I'm still trying to work out where the stuff from Fulwell and hawthorn quarries went, and in what sort of wagons, though the tarps give a good looking train that looks the part.   I may not be able to afford a rake of Covhops in any case as I'm getting together the bits for another new layout at the moment (German again and in a different time period to Furtwangen Ost).

 

I am an NERA member and have the line diagram- but I'll get a copy of tyhe freight train diagrams as that should confirm the presence or absence of lime and/or sulphate traffic.

 

All the very best

Les

[Les1952]

Some more rebuilding

 

Further testing of the colliery showed that the point from the loop to the pit itself is also shorting- it seems I have a point with duff insulation as this shorts when set to the yard and with no power supply beyond it.

 

 

I've looked at the layout and I didn't need the point (which is just as well as I'd have had to remove the flight to get the new one in).  I've replaced the point with plain track and the lines now all run.  Just a little cleaning and removal of surplus ballast to make it run smoothly with all locos.

 

 

A couple of test shots for the pictues I've used on UK Model Shops. the light area on the bank is sunlight shining over next door's roof (just) and onto that end of the layout....

 

Hawthorn Dene is now listed in the  eLayouts section under 3mm or less Nottinghamshire.   Hopefully it will attract an exhibition or two....

 

All the very best

Les

[R Marshall]

Les,

 

A little more digging revealed COVHOPS at Coxhoe with 51C shedded Q6s evident. I guess these would have come in via Station Town and Castle Eden, though . CONFLAT Ls were also used. See attachments.

 

I hope to see Hawthorn Dene at one of the NE shows.

 

Are your A3s Dapol? If so how do they run?

 

Regards,

 

Roy Marshall

[Les1952]

Hello- Thanks for the pics.

 

I think I'll stick to the 5-plank wagons with tarps, as these were used elsewhere for stone and the only wagon photos I have at Fulwell Quarry are 5-planks (I've yet to find wagon pics from Hawthorn Quarry which would definitely have been routed along the coast).

 

I've spent quite a look at the Chris Davies pics (and trawled through 806 of them) but couldn't find any "Hawthorn Colliery" (which I assume to be Hawthorn Combined Mine).  One or two of the locations seem a little suspect- "Seabank Colliery" is most likely Seaham Colliery, and "NCB Loco Juno" was a seaham Harbour Dock Company machine.  Can't fault the choice or quality of the photos, though!

 

Some pics of mine from 1972 at Hawthorn Combined Mine and South Hetton Colliery.

 

 

A couple of the steamers.

 

 

Beta ex- Brandon Pit House.

 

The Hawthorn Combined Mine was a bit further North and in No.2 Area- I've set Hawthorn Dene just over the border in No.3 Area.

 

To finish with, one at Shotton in 1975 or so (I forget the exact year but it was the year before it closed)

 

 

Having been a bit of a catalyst for the Q6 I wonder If I can persuade Dave Jones to follow his Hudswell (Boldon No.1513 was this type) with an outside-cylindered Hawthorn- the 16" would do nicely, No.63 at Philadelphia worked from South Hetton at one time......

 

All the very best

Les

 

unusually this time not edited for typos, but having started the post on the laptop I had to change computers when under Win8/IE it wouldn't manipulate the images.  As a result I had to dash downstairs to use the machine on the desk....

 

Edited November 10, 2014 by Les1952

[Les1952]

 

 

I hope to see Hawthorn Dene at one of the NE shows.

 

Are your A3s Dapol? If so how do they run?

 

Regards,

 

Roy Marshall

 

Hopefully I'll get further North than Nottingham once the layout has appeared in Railway Modeller.

 

All the A3s are Dapol and run very well, as do the A4s.  One A3 lost its piston rod from its guide and had a warranty repair to fix it and a second had a broken pin on delivery casued by a transit bounce, again fixed underr warranty  but there are 11 A3s and 5 A4s and all run very reliably- the only faults to manifest themselves are a couple of Bachmann decoders inside them losing their addresses after shorting out when derailed due to operator error- these chips will be replaced by Lenz or Zimo as and when I can afford it.

 

Lemberg with sound is very impressive- I've had it reblown with a Pauliebanger sound file rather than the Youchoose one as the whistle is more impressive on Paul's.  I'll have to try for another video of it.

 

All the very best.

Les

[Two_sugars]

That view of Shotton takes me back a bit, Les. . .

 

The coal from Shotton and South Hetton was taken down the Haswell/Hart line. Often by  Q6 or, in later days by a 37 diesel. 

 When the line closed South Hetton coal was sent to Hawthorn underground.

 

John

Edited November 10, 2014 by Two_sugars

[R Marshall]

Les,

 

Bless you for the Q6 then!

 

I'll want two, at least

 

Regards,

 

Roy Marshall

[Brian D]

Hello- Thanks for the pics.

 

I think I'll stick to the 5-plank wagons with tarps, as these were used elsewhere for stone and the only wagon photos I have at Fulwell Quarry are 5-planks (I've yet to find wagon pics from Hawthorn Quarry which would definitely have been routed along the coast).

 

I've spent quite a look at the Chris Davies pics (and trawled through 806 of them) but couldn't find any "Hawthorn Colliery" (which I assume to be Hawthorn Combined Mine).  One or two of the locations seem a little suspect- "Seabank Colliery" is most likely Seaham Colliery, and "NCB Loco Juno" was a seaham Harbour Dock Company machine.  Can't fault the choice or quality of the photos, though!

 

Some pics of mine from 1972 at Hawthorn Combined Mine and South Hetton Colliery.

 

S Hetton 2.jpg

steamyhetton.jpg

 

A couple of the steamers.

 

Beta-1973a.jpg

 

Beta ex- Brandon Pit House.

 

The Hawthorn Combined Mine was a bit further North and in No.2 Area- I've set Hawthorn Dene just over the border in No.3 Area.

 

To finish with, one at Shotton in 1975 or so (I forget the exact year but it was the year before it closed)

 

Stagshaw4.jpg

 

Having been a bit of a catalyst for the Q6 I wonder If I can persuade Dave Jones to follow his Hudswell (Boldon No.1513 was this type) with an outside-cylindered Hawthorn- the 16" would do nicely, No.63 at Philadelphia worked from South Hetton at one time......

 

All the very best

Les

 

unusually this time not edited for typos, but having started the post on the laptop I had to change computers when under Win8/IE it wouldn't manipulate the images.  As a result I had to dash downstairs to use the machine on the desk....

Fantastically atmospheric shots, Les.  It takes me back to a time when the world was so different - no WWW, jihadists, mobile phones, etc.  Is the world now a better place?  I'm not at all sure.

It would probably be around 10 years earlier when I would return to the North East with "me Mam" during school holidays.  We'd walk down to the call box outside Easington colliery and Mam would make a reverse charge call to "me Da" back home in Essex, or there would be much pushing of Button A or Button B a midst the unique toilet smell of the GPO call box - happy days.

Hawthorn Dene is looking really good now.  I must try and get a bit further up country to see it at an exhibition.

Best Regards,

Brian.

[60091]

Hello Les

I've continued to follow Hawthorn Dene and thought it was time to say hello again.

Congratulations with the exhibition invites and hopefully if Hawthorn comes further north I'll get to see it.

 

As I mentioned many pages ago I've always been interested in the Durham Coast Line and the "inland" route via Haswell and Castle Eden. I've been looking around as well as trying to remember any info which might help re freights via the coast/covhops etc. What freight info I have been able to find, shows virtually all freight going north out of Teesside via Bowesfield-Stillington-Ferryhill. The covhops to Hartlepool (as mentioned) also going that way. The vast majority of traffic via the coast seems to have been coal originating from local collieries?? 

 

However one photo I have shows a possibility for the wagons used at Hawthorn quarry... it's a copy I picked up at an exhibition (possibly Armstrong Collection?)

It shows a B1 on a passenger train, probably late 50s, passing through Blackhall Station. In an overgrown siding next to the main line are two ex LNER 13t coal hoppers. I looked up a brief history of this type in Larkins BR wagons 1968-73.... It said that under BR they saw only brief use carrying coal, but being a useful wagon, saw many more years service carrying iron ore and stone. Not sure why two should be at Blackhall... but maybe a possible link with Hawthorn Quarry?

 

Also enjoyed seeing more of your old photographs of the area  - thanks for posting them.

 

Regards

Alan

Edited November 11, 2014 by 60091

[Les1952]

Many thanks for all the comments and compliments, gents.  I'll try to deserve the latter...

 

The roster for goods trains on Hawthorn Dene at Grantham show last September looks a bit like this (which includes "flights of fancy" and "might-have beens")

 

Southbound loaded 21-tonners - coal (long train) with J27 usually

Northbound empty 21-tonners (long train) with tender-first B1

Northbound steel girders (bogie bolsters) with Tyne Dock O1 - sets this as a Teesside to South Shields train

Southbound empty bogie sulphate wagons with West Hartlepool WD - no idea if these ran on the Coast (probably not) but they all say "Empty to Haverton Hill" on the side so the back story is they're coming from Sunderland docks...

Southbound fast goods, mainly vans, with B1/V2/pacific.  Includes fish so probably started at South Shields and will pick up again at West Hartlepool

Nothbound and Southbound slow freights with J25 etc

Southbound 5-plank tarpaulins with Class 24 (25/0) and brake tender- thought of as limestone from Fulwell or Hawthorn quarry.

Northbound coal fulls, Blackhall or Horden to Sunderland docks or Tyneside power station, Class 24- may become Q6

Northbound oil train (not really prototypical but local tankers from Robbies) with J39

Northbound and Southbound parcels- I was worried about the Northbound one being too short but have found a picture of a Sunderland to York parcels with three bogies and a brown van hauled by a V2, just as well as my V2s are weaklings....

 

There are also two Northbound and one Southbound expresses with Pacifics , a local with a D20 and celerestories including an NER brake, a DMU, 2MT with inspection saloon and a Class 37 with one or two brake vans.

The list will change/develop as I get more exhibitions under my belt.

The sound fitted locos are lemberg on Southbound express, the West Hartlepool WD and the 2MT on the inspection saloon.  The two Southbound ones are stopped by the signal and the saloon stops to inspect the PW gang....

I do know that three expresses is one too many.

Hope this helps.

Les

Edited November 12, 2014 by Les1952

[60091]

Hi Les

That's a great variety in the fiddle yard - and who's to say that at some time in the late 1950s and 1960s those trains didn't run along the coast.

I lived next to the line for several years, late 80s-90s and during that time I saw an incredible variety of trains. However, the day to day reality was an hourly passenger service, mostly 142s-143s and 156s and a steady flow (until 1995) of 56s on coal trains.

 

For extra variety - you might have seen photos of the Newcastle -York parcels behind a Peak? ...A possible replacement for your ailing V2s. Amazing variety of vans on those trains. I also have a copy of an article which mentions ,at certain times of the year, regular weekend excursions to Newcastle from Manchester/Derby and Sheffield during the early 60s. Some ran via Washington, others via the coast. Haulage was either a Black 5 or a Jubilee.

 

Alan

Edited November 13, 2014 by 60091

[Brian D]

Hi Les,

In my spotting days at Easington when steam ruled (Q6s & J27s) coal and green DMUs almost everything else, I don't recall seeing any northbound empty coal trains working beyond Easington Colliery - all the empties terminated in the colliery sidings and returned full southbound to West Hartlepool. No coal trains either full or empty went "through" in either direction as I recall.  I don't know what happened in early diesel days as my hormones kicked in and I lost interest in train spotting.

Your "Northbound coal fulls, Blackhall or Horden to Sunderland docks or Tyneside power station, Class 24- may become Q6" sounds a bit hopeful to me unless this is what happened in diesel days which would rule out the Q6.

What I do remember seeing is the countless Newcastle to Middlesborough and return green DMU workings (was it a half hour service via the Durham coast line at that time?).  I think you could usefully include these workings in your schedule.

Keep up the good work.

Regards,

Brian.

[60091]

Hi Brian and Les

Brian - your post jogged my memory and what you said would be correct. Workings to the coast line collieries and the line via Heselden Bank/Haswell/South Hetton were both split between Hartlepool and Sunderland South Dock locomotives. As a general rule South Dock probably used steam for longer ... to the very end, in the case of Silksworth and Ryhope collieries, while Hartlepool/Thornaby started to use 37s much earlier. Inland the cut off was Shotton and there's a nice photo o of a 37 from Hartlepool in the exchange sidings in Past and Present North East Vol 4. One of my memories is of 37s working the branch to Wheatley and Thornley collieries (mid 60s) and my disappointment that it was never steam. Starting to reminisce and going off topic!

 

Les... for something completely different - have you seen Ian Carrs' photo of the royal train behind a Class 40 at Horden in 1963? (Ian Allen Diesels on the Eastern) Although the caption doesn't mention it, I think the visit might have been something to do with Peterlee??

 

Regards

Alan

Edited November 13, 2014 by 60091

[Barry O]

Hi Brian and Les

 

 

Les... for something completely different - have you seen Ian Carrs' photo of the royal train behind a Class 40 at Horden in 1964? (Ian Allen Diesels on the Eastern) Although the caption doesn't mention it, I think the visit might have been something to do with Peterlee??

 

Regards

Alan

Alan

 

yes it was. They also painted the station and promptly closed it! 

 I can remember the buildings but can only remember travelling (on a Met Cam set) from Horden once as a child. 

 

The coal from horden always seemed to head south.. i can remember Q6, J27, WD and 37s on coal trains, Met Cam DMUs and Peaks on both passenger and parcels trains (including teh sleeper to London and a train to Colchester)

 

best regards

 

baz

[R Marshall]

Just for clarity, West Hartlepool shed closed at the same time as Sunderland (17.09.67) and final allocation was 2 x Q6 and 7 x WDs - I can't say how they were used, but it would be surprising if they didn't serve the collieries. I've got a picture of a WD with loaded 21T hoppers at Newburn in June 1967. And a West Hartlepool Q6 on Hesleden bank in February 1967 with empties.

 

Seaham and points North seem to have been served from South Dock as stated above.

[Les1952]

Thanks for all this info- 

 

Now a teaser- I've got a picture of coal fulls at the South end of Dawdon with a J27 (or could be a J26) on the front and something (possibly No.60, a WD saddletank with a Lambton cab) giving it an almighty shove up the rear - seemingly working a bit harder than the J26/J27.   So from this I deduce that not all Dawdon coal went out through Seaham staithes, and that odd loads at least went off to Teesside.

 

Similarly there is a picture of another J27 arriving at Dawdon from the South with what looks like coal fulls- could this be a train of Easington, Horden or Blackhall stuff for shipping at Seaham?   Certainly these trains weren't the normal run of the mill, but as the coastal pits didn't all work the same seam there would be differences in the quality of the coal produced.

 

I also remember sitting on Seaham station for an hour after just missing a train (not long after the end of BR steam, I'd been trying and failing to get into Seaham Colliery) and two class 37s came through with coal empties, one Northbound and the other southbound........

 

There is a last week picture of one of West Hartlepool's WDs on the inland route.  They also worked to Thrislington via Billingham, and there are a couple of good pics of them between West Hartlepool and Seaton Carew on Southbound coal, but this could have come down the inland route to Old Hartlepool.

 

I do need an excuse to run coal trains as they were the staple diet of the line- if I've set the layout on the only stretch that didn't have any I'm going to have to bend reality a bit.   the D20 is very much a flight of fancy as they seem to have been very irregular on the line since WW2, most passenger being V3 or L1 hauled up until the first DMUs in the mid-fifties- these were 8-car sets by the way!    An 8-car DMU was a replacement for an L1 + 8 coach train. 

 

I lived at Darlington until 1970, then three years at Durham, five at (West) Hartlepool and two at Eston before moving to Notts at the start of 1980.  Oddly enough there is a picture in the NERA Express, (no.215- the centre spread) with an aerial view of Faverdale works, and in the lower right is the house I grew up in drying out after building before the first owners moved in.......

 

All the very best

Les

[60091]

Hi Les.... re the above post...

 

If only we had a time machine...!

I think some of the answers might also be found in the collections of local photographers like Ian Carr and Ken Hoole. 

It seems that the more you look at the evidence, the more complicated it becomes. Apart from having fun operating the layout, the most important thing, which you mentioned, is that Hawthorne runs with local coal traffic well represented without worrying too much where it comes from and where it's going to

 

However here are a few more details.

I have a copy of BR Eastern Region Freight train loads book for 1967. This is for diesel workings only but does give an insight into local freight flows.

1) There is an entry for freight from Hartlepool to Sunderland "via Horden" and return. Like most entries the only info is on the number of wagons to be conveyed by various diesel classes not the type of traffic being conveyed. 

2)Local collieries - all mentioned by name - so obviously coal! Virtually every colliery as far north as Seaham/Dawdon (and Hawthorn on the inland line) have an entry for workings to/from "Billingham or Wilton ICI" No other destination is given for this coal.

Interestingly coal from Shotton, Thornley, Trimdon and also again, supprisingly, Hawthorn is shown as going to Tees which probably explains the frequency of 37s on these workings.

Coxhoe, Hart and also Trimdon sent coal to Hartlepool.

 

For whatever reason, no workings are shown going north to Sunderland or beyond from any local colliery. Possibly because they were steam worked from South Dock ??

Sorry all the above doesn't answer all your questions and isn't directly related to Hawthorn and the coast line. Also only relevant to 1967.

These can only be the main traffic flows and I'm sure there will have been plenty of variations.

 

Cheers

Alan

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

[R Marshall]

Les,

 

Seeing your teaser, I've been browsing that Darlington District freight working 1953 leaflet of NERA - probably the one you want (if they have produced it) is Newcastle District, which will cover Sunderland, I guess.

 

One small crumb of comfort is that West Hartlepool had a working WH15 - mineral empties, or XPOs (could this be NCB ex PO colliery wagons, or something from Steetley?) from Cemetery North to Tyne Dock (timed departure at 09.00).

 

More interestingly, there was WH28 (Dep. 06.15) goods and empties to Easington (where Seaham traffic was detached) and Hawthorne (sic) Quarry (Arr. 08.00). This must mean that coal traffic was coming South through Hawthorn Dene. There is no loaded equivalent shown, which suggests that Sunderland engines were working the full trains at least as far as Easington. The train was to be marshalled for Dawdon, Seabanks (sic), Seaham Goods, South Dock and mineral empties (the last for points further North, or Easington more likely?). A 09.25 departure on the same working went no further than Easington.

 

Secondly, all the J26s were shedded on Teeside - your 0-6-0 at Dawdon will be a J27, I think.

Edited November 16, 2014 by R Marshall

[Two_sugars]

I seem to recall being told that the reason for ICI being on the Tees, was for the Durham coal for the chemical works.

I can't remember coal travelling south from further north than Easington. . the coal from Seaham and  Dawdon that wasn't sent out via Seaham dock was sent up Hesleden

bank to Hawthorn Coke works or down the Haswell/ Hart line. . .

I also have a recollection of tanker trains ( oil or diesel/petrol) coming north from perhaps Wilton to the Wear or Tyne.

 

John

[R Marshall]

John,

 

I'm not clear on what you're saying with this, Hesleden and Hesleden Bank are between Hart and Castle Eden. Do you mean somewhere on the NCB line that used to run past Cold Hesledon East-West?

 

Roy

 

Les,

 

I've been looking for an excuse (if one were needed!) to run my D20 North along the line. All of the recorded D20 workings from West Hartlepool, that I can find, reference the Leeds Northern line via Eaglescliffe and Northallerton and I've pictures of 62372 in Marsh Lane Cutting at Leeds (light engine, but showing a Stopping Passenger headlamp code - probably returning from servicing at Neville Hill) and Southbound at Eaglescliffe (the shot only shows 2 vans behind the tender - the rest of the train isn't visible).

 

However, Another picture of 62380 (a Tweedmouth engine!) has at least 8 coaches behind the tender, setting out Northbound from West Hartlepool. Puzzling.

 

Roy

[Two_sugars]

 Do you mean somewhere on the NCB line that used to run past Cold Hesledon East-West?

 

That's the one. Crossing the A19 just north of the Pemberton Arms and skirting the pit-heap..

The line from Hart through Castle Eden, Thornley crossing, and Shotton continued north to South Hetton and into the Hawthorn complex.

[Les1952]

Hello.

 

Again thanks, gents, for all the info. 

 

Firstly on Dawdon coal- it couldn't travel up the NCB line to South Hetton and Hawthorn Cokeworks as the two inclines were self-acting, which meant that wagons coming down had to be heavier than those going up as the weight difference was what made the incline work.  These inclines were originally for coal coming down into Seaham Harbour but later for stone to be loaded into coasters for tipping at sea, rather like the stuff that was tipped from Sunderland pits. All that could go up the inclines were empties.  One of the Marsden videos has some good footage of the inclines and of the South Hetton WDs working to the top.

 

I've probably got a similar D20 photo on the coast line- though the trains were longer than I've room for.  Through trains from Newcastle to Middlesbrough loaded to eight bogies.  There are also records of occasional B1s finding their way onto these in the fifties but my B1s have enough options without taking on passenger.  I suspect tender engines were rare as they had to be turned at each end where an A8, V1/3 or L1 (which were the usual power) would only need to run round and take water- or if a Teesside loco "drop back" to the next Southbound working without needing to go for turning first.

 

One thing I did find out from reading through 1959 Trains Illustrateds- I picked up a very tatty bound set really cheaply- was that the Metrovick Co-Bos were run in from Middlesbrough to Newcastle via Sunderland and back on eight-coach trains said to be "Mark 1 stock".  They also worked a Middlesbrough- Harrogate-Leeds-York-Middlesbrough turn, presumably with the same stock.  I'd not really realised they were built at Stockton.  I'd sold my Metrovick when planning this layout- I'll not replace it with another kit as there wasn't really enough room inside to chip it.  If an r-t-r version appears then I have an excuse for buying one.....

 

If there is an entry for Dawdon Colliery to Billingham ICI then the loco could well have been a Teesside J26, but how many can tell a J26 from a J27 on an N-gauge model?  I can for some locos but I'm a bit of a geek..... My surviving pair are J27s- one isn't yet chipped.  My J26 has died and donated its tender to another J25.

 

Some pics-

 

 

At the top of the slope from the coal drops the new smoother crossing by the new pointwork- makes it a bit more plausible that road wagons actually could have gone through the pit yard.

 

 

Progress with bedding in the line into the screens where the point has been removed.

 

 

The reason there are no pithead wheels at Hawthorn Dene- they've been taken down and are being scrapped- must get another welder and some more rust paint.  It does look like a main line in front.....

 

 

To whet the appetite for the new German layout- this weekend's purchases for that line running in on HD.  You'll not find that opne in a working timetable (or out at exhibition.....)

 

 

And finally....

 

 

 

 

Model railways are built on tea and coffee, in my case mostly tea.  My teapot was more than a little past it so I've treated myself to a new one. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It is of course bigger on the inside......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

All the very best

Les

 

nore typos removed, but never all.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Les1952

[R Marshall]

Les,

 

Love the teapot.

 

Didn't know that about the Co-Bos.

 

According to RCTS Part 5, only J26s had round cab spectacles - all J27s and some 22 J26s had been converted to the same shape as Q6s. So, as you say, difficult to tell the difference unless it has circular cab spectacles, or you know the number range of each class (J26 65730-65779; J27 65780-65894). What was that about geeks?

 

Regards,

 

Roy

[60091]

 

One thing I did find out from reading through 1959 Trains Illustrateds- I picked up a very tatty bound set really cheaply- was that the Metrovick Co-Bos were run in from Middlesbrough to Newcastle via Sunderland and back on eight-coach trains said to be "Mark 1 stock".  They also worked a Middlesbrough- Harrogate-Leeds-York-Middlesbrough turn, presumably with the same stock.  I'd not really realised they were built at Stockton.  I'd sold my Metrovick when planning this layout- I'll not replace it with another kit as there wasn't really enough room inside to chip it.  If an r-t-r version appears then I have an excuse for buying one.....

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Hi Les

I forgot to mention the Co Bos...

There's a really good photo of one heading south through East Boldon in  September 1958 - D5702. This is in David Allens "Diesels in the North Eas"t The stock appears to be everything except Mk 1s !... a real mix.

However, you'd probably need to extend your fiddle yard to fit this one in. It's described as a 13 coach test train.

 

I'd also forgotten they were built at Stockton.

 

Cheers

Alan

 

 

Edited November 19, 2014 by 60091

[Les1952]

I can (just) fit a 13-coach train in the longest road of the Southbound fiddle yard, but prefer two shorter ones.

 

I do have a simple rule on J26/27s

Round spectacles- definitely J26

Balance weights to wheels - definitely J27

Otherwise could be either, look at the number.

 

All the very best

Les

 

Does the tea pot make me a Tea-time Lord?

Edited November 19, 2014 by Les1952