Have Hornby hit an Iceberg?

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Passenger Boat trains running into the docks seems to have commonplace later on in the 1930's onwards, but I don't know about earlier times.

 

I think the Ocean Terminal was built about this time and the liners left from the adjacent quay. Although the terminal is gone, the rails are still there. This quay is still used for cruise ships and you can see them towering over the skyline at frequent intervals.

 

 

 

 

As Pete says, the Canute Road crossing is still in use, but only a few times a week. Mostly the traffic is WIA car carriers

 

I think Renault use Southampton exclusively. The ships themselves are really ugly, basically boxes with a sort of bow. From some angles it is difficult to see which way they go.

 

Incidentally, the locos might have been T9's. At that time they were the best that LSWR had to offer although they were yet to be superheated. I cannot really comment on coaching stock as the SEMG website only covers one tri composite but the captions do allude to both corridor stock and 'emigrant' coaching stock, both of which would be relevant. There is also the Pullman connection as these were available in small numbers at the time but I get the impression, mainly as dining cars.

[A Murphy]

In the luridly titled but quite good Titanic, Destination Disaster by Eaton and Haas, (1987) they refer to the train bearing second and third class passenegers leaving Waterloo at 7.30 and arriving "at the dockside" shortly after 9.30am. At 9.45 the train bearing first class passenegers left Waterloo and arrived 11.30. This must have been dockside for a twelve o'clock departure.

 

Cheers,

 

Alastair

[coachmann]

Has Hornby Hit and Iceberg becomes a discussion about Titanic and now Southampton dock. Wot about the plight of the polar bear?

[petethemole]

The Ocean Terminal was post-war; It was opened in 1950 by Clement Atlee, the Prime Minister. It replaced earlier building at Ocean Dock, originally White Star Dock.

Pete

[petethemole]

Re the polar bear:

 

 

Pete

[petethemole]

Back on topic, I'm not sure where it can go now. Hornby Hobbies made sure the Airfix kit of the ship was available this year for those who want it, without making a big fuss about it. The only other thing I could imagine them doing would be a Titanic Boat Train set, which would probably involve a non-superheat T9 and a rake of LSWR coaches. A massive outlay on tooling for a fairly short sales window, although it might be a long term earner (especially the coaches, in SR livery?) but probably would not please the accountants. Would it be regarded in some corners as tasteless? I think it might. They would have to have decided on anything about 3-4 years ago. Maybe with their ?unwise? investment in Olympic tat souvenirs, they decided not to take a risk on Titanic merchandise. Personally I'm rather glad.

Pete

[Charlie]

I think Renault use Southampton exclusively. The ships themselves are really ugly, basically boxes with a sort of bow. From some angles it is difficult to see which way they go.

 

Really? I'm sure when I did temp work down there I saw a few Range Rover laden trains go through. Plus there is always the odd occasion when the royal train passes by.

[Edwin_m]

Disused Stations website has a feature on Southampton boat train stations.

[Ron Ron Ron]

.....Further research gives the Arrival time for the 1st class boat train for the Titanic as 11.30am for a 12 noon sailing. This must be dockside as there wouldn't be time to get passengers and luggage from the station to the ship.

...... At 9.45 the train bearing first class passenegers left Waterloo and arrived 11.30. This must have been dockside for a twelve o'clock departure.

 

Hi Pete & Alastair.

The bits I've read and what's been repeated on the radio series, is that the first class passenger's luggage went ahead, with their personal servants having unpacked it and readied their suites.

First class passengers in those days (we are talking "Upstairs Downstairs" or Downton Abbey" here) wouldn't have carried their own bags or arranged their own porterage. They had someone to arrange all that with the railway company or shipping line.

One version also adds that their fires were lit and the rooms warmed. I didn't know they had fireplaces in individual cabins?

 

 

I think the Ocean Terminal was built about this time and the liners left from the adjacent quay.

 

 

The Ocean Terminal was post-war; It was opened in 1950 by Clement Atlee, the Prime Minister. It replaced earlier building at Ocean Dock, originally White Star Dock.

 

Pete is correct, the original Ocean Terminal opened in 1950 and served throughout the 50's and 60's, but by the start of the 70's the era of the ocean liners (QE2 apart, which used another terminal) had gone and the cruise industry had faded. The unused Ocean terminal fell into disrepair and was finally abandoned for a number of years, being demolished in 1983 IIRC?

 

 

This quay is still used for cruise ships and you can see them towering over the skyline at frequent intervals.

 

The particular berths alongside the old Ocean terminal site aren't used by cruise ships. Mostly this quay is used by vehicle carriers and other cargo ships.

The new Ocean Terminal (opened in 2009) is situated on the opposite side of the Ocean Dock, but the monster sized liners of today seem to virtually fill the whole Ocean Dock up.

 

Here's are some photos of part of the Eastern Docks, where you can see liners in the Ocean Dock alongside the new Ocean Terminal, with vehicle transporters also inside the Ocean Dock, mored alongside the site of the old Ocean Terminal.

 

I think Renault use Southampton exclusively.

Really? I'm sure when I did temp work down there I saw a few Range Rover laden trains go through.

 

Indian firm Tata, send their Land Rover and Jaguar products out from Southampton. You see Range Rover's, new Disco's, Freelander's, Evoke's and Defenders.

Other manufacturers who use the port include BMW (exporting their Oxford made Minis) and Honda (who send Swindon made cars like the CRV out from here).

 

Importers include Ford (they have a huge vehicle storage site in the Western Docks), Renault, BMW (X5's and Z4's from the USA) etc.

 

 

 

.

[petethemole]

Correct Ron, Ocean Terminal was demolished in 1983. It was one of the first things ABP did when they bought the newly privatised port. They brought a wrecking ball in over Easter weekend and trashed the iconic Art Deco style seaward end, then stopped and began stripping the interior. I think they knew it was potentially controversial and made sure the most likely reason for an emergency listing was too far gone. However the Council officer responsible at the time, who I knew for many years (now sadly passed on) apparently didn't think it was true Art Deco and given the fait accompli nothing was done. It was a bit of a white elephant by then anyway. I was renting a room at the shop of a dealer in ocean liner memorabilia at the time. He did a deal with the demolition contractors to buy fittings, signs etc and I spent several days helping him, including taking down the big railway clocks from the platform. I still have a big glass ashtray from there, slightly chipped, hence I got to keep it.

 

Years earlier, in 1963 I think, I was on an Ian Allan railtour to Eastleigh and Southampton Docks with 92220, which included visiting the viewing balcony to see RMS Queen Mary leaving,

Pete

[Guest Belgian]

There's one small part of the post-war Ocean Terminal still extant: the eastern end of the bridge which crossed the railway tracks and roadway remains as (I believe) it contains some electrical equipment.

 

JE

[petethemole]

Probably not for much longer I think, we just did a historic building survey on it.

Pete

[JohnR]

Theres a bit in this months Heritage Railway about some railway tickets (GWR Plymouth - Paddington & LSWR Southampton - Waterloo) which were sent to White Stars New York office to be sold on the return voyage to passengers.

 

Although the 1906 Salisbury disaster had curtailed the races for the boat traffic, it was still common for both railways to take passengers off incoming liners - Plymouth allowing an earlier arrival in London.

[kevinlms]

In the luridly titled but quite good Titanic, Destination Disaster by Eaton and Haas, (1987) they refer to the train bearing second and third class passenegers leaving Waterloo at 7.30 and arriving "at the dockside" shortly after 9.30am. At 9.45 the train bearing first class passenegers left Waterloo and arrived 11.30. This must have been dockside for a twelve o'clock departure.

 

Cheers,

 

Alastair

 

1/2 an hour doesn't sound long. Perhaps the bulk of the luggage had been forwarded by an earlier train?

 

Kevin Martin

[Ron Ron Ron]

Kevin, read my post above (Post 34).

First Class passengers would have had nothing to do with their luggage.

That is said to have gone ahead with a servant(s), who would have unpacked the contents required for the journey and stowed it all away.

On arrival the First Class passengers would have been whisked to their luxury suites, which by then would have been fully prepared for their arrival.

[Ozexpatriate]

Let us hope Clive Palmer does not hit an icebeg with his Titanic 100th anniversary commemoration either.

 

Sorry - should have checked Wheeltappers first: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/55770-titanic-ii-to-hit-the-high-seas/