A good day turned bad

[spamcan61]

If the payment demanded bore some resemblance to the loss suffered a few more of us might think that way - and it isn't a fine.

[Baby Deltic]

I hope the OP doesn't take this as directed at him but the simplest way to avoid such a fine is not to park on private property or follow the rules if you do, I'm afraid that I find the attempts by many to wriggle out of paying almost as bad as those solicitors who get celebrities off a variety of offences on technicalities, don't do the crime and you don't have to pay the fine.

 

In all fairness, Dave, these clampers and cockroaches don't always make their warning notices obvious. A lot of the time, the notice is deliberately placed such that it is not easily seen.

[mcowgill]

I hope the OP doesn't take this as directed at him but the simplest way to avoid such a fine is not to park on private property or follow the rules if you do, I'm afraid that I find the attempts by many to wriggle out of paying almost as bad as those solicitors who get celebrities off a variety of offences on technicalities, don't do the crime and you don't have to pay the fine.

 

I was on an MG run a couple of months ago, the meeting point was South Mimms services, about the only sensible place for 90 cars to gather before circumnavigating the M25. We were told in advance by the services to use the Coach park rather than the car park and that we could stay as long as we liked. Quite a few of us arrived over 2 hours before the start of the run and later received 'fines' in the post despite being told we were fine. It looks like the parking enforcement company ignores instructions from the landowner.

 

As far as I know nobody has paid up, particularly in view of the the parking company threatening to also invoice the charity we were raising money for! A very pleasant bunch of low life...

[skipepsi]

I hope the OP doesn't take this as directed at him but the simplest way to avoid such a fine is not to park on private property or follow the rules if you do, I'm afraid that I find the attempts by many to wriggle out of paying almost as bad as those solicitors who get celebrities off a variety of offences on technicalities, don't do the crime and you don't have to pay the fine.

 

I think it depends how clear the signage is to start with if it is clear that you are parking on someone else's property then it is you're fault.

[beast66606]

I think it depends how clear the signage is to start with if it is clear that you are parking on someone else's property then it is you're fault.

 

I would agree the signage needs to be (very) clear, I have almost been caught by this however the lack of other vehicles rang my alarm bells so I checked around and found a sign, and moved, pronto.

[simon hudson]

I agree with beasts comment and quite openly say I parked there and it was my own fault my point was having parked there so many times in the past and not having been to Llanrwst for 3-4 weeks. I did my normal thing and parked in the car park, I thought something was a bit strange as all the local s who usually would be there weren't and I thought check the signs. As originally stated the Welsh language ones are at about 7 foot from ground level the signs are about 2 foot high) the English language one is directly above that and the wrting isn't exactly large.I think vey naughty been an Englishman living in Wales I can get by in Welsh,but I'm not fluent.Still it's happend I've vented my anger and await the postman so will keep you informed.You never know they might lock me up in Durham closer to me mam!!

[54Strat]

I hope the OP doesn't take this as directed at him but the simplest way to avoid such a fine is not to park on private property or follow the rules if you do, I'm afraid that I find the attempts by many to wriggle out of paying almost as bad as those solicitors who get celebrities off a variety of offences on technicalities, don't do the crime and you don't have to pay the fine.

 

Having first hand experience of one of these firms using scaremongering, lies, doctored photographs and threats I would see my stance of not paying as a service to society, rather than any other implied notion.

 

It's not a crime and it's not a fine, but these firms would have you believe it.

 

Paul

[beast66606]

Sorry but it's not actually your land to park on, I don't really want to argue about it but you are not performing any service to society, maybe in your case they were OTT, but the converse argument is the many firms and/or individuals who are plagued by people parking on THEIR property, if the general public were so innocent (most of) these firms wouldn't exist. Imagine if I decided to use your garden as my car park, how long would you say "That's ok" ? - what difference is your garden from any other piece of land owned by A.N.Other ?

 

Many years ago when I worked in central Manchester, the owners of our building had to introduce one of these firms as commuters were parking in the private car park behind the building, accesed through an obvious gate and with "Private Car Park" signs all over the gate and all over the surrounding walls, now perhaps it was down to the users and/or owners of the building to waste their time, and possibly get into a violent confrontation to persuade these people that they should park on PUBLIC land, despite the many signs saying "Private" or perhaps the private firm sorted the problem out in a few days.

 

I don't condone heavy handed tactics on EITHER side, but there are no doubt plenty of cases were members of the public DO park on private land and would continue to do so, at an inconsiderable inconvenience to the owners, without a financial deterrent.

[54Strat]

I'm not arguing about rights, the point I made was that a firm who seeks revenue by implying and suggesting through underhand tactics that a offence has been committed when one hasn't should be stood up to. That's all.

 

Paul

 

 

 

[chris p bacon]

I'm not arguing about rights, the point I made was that a firm who seeks revenue by implying and suggesting through underhand tactics that a offence has been committed when one hasn't should be stood up to. That's all.

 

Paul

 

I don't like these companies but what should the owners of the land do ?

 

We now have barriers on the town car park as commuters took it over for free parking, they then plagued the nearby residential areas parking across entrances and blocking paths, the police did nothing so some residents decided to damage cars, no one was caught but the parking in that area declined. I built a property near to the station which was temporarily blocked time and again by inconsiderate parking but as the digger can tow anything we dealt with it !

In the next town Aldi has started to use a company to enforce 2 hour parking restrictions on their land, when it started the local traders were vocal in their opposition as it seems that many of them were using the car park themselves and parking in it for up to 8 hours, the many hairdressers also complained that as hair appointments could be 4 hours many of their customers were being caught out. There is no shortage of parking in the town far from it, but Aldi is free and the adjascent market square is pay + display 30p hour.

It's easy to park in Aldi now for shopping.

[Baby Deltic]

I'm not arguing about rights, the point I made was that a firm who seeks revenue by implying and suggesting through underhand tactics that a offence has been committed when one hasn't should be stood up to. That's all.

 

Paul

 

It might not be an offence under criminal law, but there might be a transgression under common law. I won't say civil law because, AFAIK, 'civil law' is not recognised in the UK although often things will be referred to as a 'civil matter'.

[Ozexpatriate]

First let me say I'm a bewildered foreigner. Please let me know if I've got this wrong.

 

1. There's a car park for some kind of retail business.

2. The car park is (presumably) intended for patrons who, if they shop briskly, can use this car park gratis.

3. The car park features a sign saying something to the effect that if you park for longer than a certain time limit, then you will receive a bill.

4. And this is commonplace in Britain?

 

People often use the expression "only in America", but this is new to me.

 

Perhaps there is a think tank who provide consulting services to the makers of CCTV systems to come up with new systems of renumeration to help pay for CCTV systems?

 

I apologize if I am a bit off-topic, but I only seek to understand. Is something like this not considered a sufficiently effective deterrent, with even less cost to the property owner?

 

It is a very lucrative business for tow-truck operators in the US who are granted access to private property to remove improperly parked vehicles. The threat of impounding your car is much more intimidating than having a bill appear in the mail.

[54Strat]

Ok, I'll bite again.

 

I agree, there maybe a common law case but that's not where they can make money from. It's in their interest to coerce people to pay charges using whatever means they think they can get away with. There's very little chance they can convince a judge that the damages they suffered are even quantifiable never mind reasonable and the additional cost and time of court procedings make it unviable, so they resort to bullying.

 

Which is again my point, I can't abide a bully.

 

Paul

[industrial]

One of our semi local towns has got free parking but are finding all the spaces are filled by commuters who meet up there and then car share from there on so the shoppers have got no were to park. Also one of the park and rides for the local town is also treated the same as well.

 

Yes beast 66606 is correct that why should people park for free on somebodies land when they are not using the shops (or other use) it is their for.

[beast66606]

I don't like these companies but what should the owners of the land do ?

 

That seems to have not been answered by those who support the "don't pay" policy.

 

I agree, there maybe a common law case but that's not where they can make money from. It's in their interest to coerce people to pay charges using whatever means they think they can get away with. There's very little chance they can convince a judge that the damages they suffered are even quantifiable never mind reasonable and the additional cost and time of court procedings make it unviable, so they resort to bullying.

 

Which is again my point, I can't abide a bully.

 

That description is no doubt true for some of the firms, like everything in life there will be baddies, however it does not change the simple fact that the land is private and therefore if the owner chooses to put terms and conditions on its use, you either adhere to them or you pay. I don't hold with the "the damages they suffered are even quantifiable" defence, once steps have to be taken to enforce the conditions then costs occur, equipment to prove the use, man power to check it etc - of course if everyone parked where they are entitled to, or followed the rules then none of this would be required. Why should I have to pay more to park to cover these costs ? I don't stay for 6 hours in a "Free for 3 hours" car park (for example), so I don't want it changing to "£3 per visit" simply to cover the costs to take steps against those who do abuse the system. I already have that problem with my insurance. I don't park in disabled spaces, I don't park in parent and toddler (even though I once had one), I don't park on private property - but people DO and cause major inconvenience to others around them.

 

I did say that my comments were not directed at the OP, and I had hoped any discussion would generalise rather than bringing up specific cases, I've already given a converse situation where steps had to be taken to prevent people using private parking spaces. If anyone can suggest an alternative method of enforcement that works (we also tried flyers under the windscreen wipers to remind people it was private land, the next day the same cars were back so they obviously didn't give a t*ss, until the clamps came out, THEN they became bothered) then I'm sure you could make a lot of friends, but for now, as long as it's CLEARLY signed, and I mean CLEARLY not up on a wall in the far corner of the land, then I don't see an issue.

 

PS - I equally can't abide those who think "I can do what I like with no consequence" (not that I'm saying this applies to anyone here)