simon hudson Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 This morning was lovely here in North Wales, I was sent up to work in our Llanrwst branch and the drive up the valley was fantastic as usual.I arrived at Llanrwst and no parking spaces in the usual spot so I crossed over and parked in the Co-Op, as I have many times before. As I walked the short walk to work I thought strange this is very quiet not many parked here.3 hrs later I found out why.A spy camera has been fitted and anyone over staying 2 hrs gets an automatic fine. OH S***t.I know its my own fault and probably no defence, new signs had been put up in Welsh at about 7 foot high and in English above that at about 10 foot high. I only work up at Llanrwst when needed up there I work in a one man shop so I only found out when chating to one of our regular customers 3 hours later.Apparently all the locals are up in arms but too late for me alas. I did go into the afore mentioned store to be told "Oh theres hell on about it but it's a private parking company and we have no say or any connection with them sorry if the camera picked you up yo will get done" So what started out as a grand day turned sour plus as I was driving a company van I'm in the bad books with the boss I know I was driving and I parked it up so I will have to pay.Just venting my frustration and annoyance.I passed my test in 1973 and have only ever had 1 parking ticket in that time and have always prided myself on a clean sheet.Am off to swear smash something up OH B****R- Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium spamcan61 Posted April 16, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 16, 2012 If it's private property then it's not a fine, only courts, police and councils can issue fines. It's an invoice dressed up as a fine. Many people have ignored the stream of official looking letters and threats, these parasites are all bark and no bite. Search on just about any motoriing/legal website and you'll see that these demands are best ignored. edit: see following for example:- http://www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=8899 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon hudson Posted April 16, 2012 Author Share Posted April 16, 2012 I whole heartedly agree and if I had been in my car I would have done just that, but my boss who is a grand fellow is of the old school and I shall just have to see what happens I personally would just bin it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hughes Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Was the 'contract' - which you are deemed to agree to by parking the vehicle - actually confirmed at any point by the 'keeper' of the vehicle? I'd assume not. In which case the vultures have no right to chase the keeper of the vehicle, as he was not a party to the agreement, and - unless they read RMWeb! - they have no knowledge of who the driver was. Unless your boss likes paying these vultures then I'd suggest he simply ignores them; they'll just send increasingly shrill letters for a few months and then forget about it. And claiming it's a 'fine' is simply disgraceful! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Torper Posted April 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2012 You might find the following helpful: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets Your boss might be heartened by the paragraph beginning "If you weren't driving, you're not liable and you've no need to tell who was" DT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
industrial Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 If they are not legal why do the DVLA give the details to the firms then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted April 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2012 Because they pay them ......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon hudson Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 From what I can gather the private parking companies pay a small fee to for every enquiry to the DVLA.I have read the various reports on the web so I'm now waiting to see what happens. As an aside I arrived up here in Llanwrst deliberately early to get a space.yes everyone else has the same idea What makes it more annoying apparently all other car parks are going to be pay and display even ones more or less out of town I know we country folk have had it easy but the old perenial subject of, it will stop people from coming to town It's happend down at the coast in Colwyn Bay and Llandudno. Then the council bemoans the fact the streets are dead. Funny old world Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oggy1953 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 From what I can gather the private parking companies pay a small fee to for every enquiry to the DVLA.I have read the various reports on the web so I'm now waiting to see what happens. . Then the council bemoans the fact the streets are dead. Funny old world So does that mean anyone can pay a fee and get details from DVLA ? Very dangerous. Most councils seem to be putting up parking charges to make up the shortfall in cash due to capping of the council tax. Then wondering why town centres are dead and everyone shops 'out of town'...weird idea if you ask me. To be fair our council haven't put up parking fees by much...Just closed librarys and swimming pools and turned off street lights between midnight and 5.00 am. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 The situation's equally interesting if they clamp your vehicle. This happened to a friend of ours who had parked in her own designated / marked space outside her own flat! I sued the clamping company in the County Court and got the money back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackRat Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Without over complicating a civil matter, I would suggest you tread carefully. There are one or two solicitors and at least 1 barrister on here who may be able to offer advice through the forum...................?? But essentially you have entered on property which they have some claim or title over, and as part of such entry you are required to pay. Whilst not a fine, I would imagine that there is a way of them reclaiming the monies via a civil action, possibly including baliff action? Advice often comes free, but in the long term can work out very expensive indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 What about offering to pay a "reasonable amount" for the parking by cheque, but stating that encashing the cheque signifies acceptance as full and final payment? Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54Strat Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 This happened to my gf in Morrisions in Chester. We didn't pay and wrote them a letter saying we didn't enter into any contract with them and won't be paying them, and were careful not to admit any hint of liablilty, i.e, driver details or intention. The letter they sent back showed a poorly 'photoshopped' image of a sign where one was not, as if that would proved we entered into a contract ? Showed this to the manager of the shop and he was a bit shocked to say the least. Of course these companies are reputable and above board. Don't worry, it's not worth their while to pursue a non payer through the courts, so they'll phrase hollow threats like 'may affect your credit rating' but soon give up and no harm done. It's those law abiding people who pay without question that makes it worth their while. For every charge issued, I wonder how many people pay up? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 What about buying a petrol Stihl saw, keeping it in the boot and cutting off any clamps you get and the head of anyone who tries to stop you? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 30801 Posted April 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2012 What about buying a petrol Stihl saw, keeping it in the boot and cutting off any clamps you get and the head of anyone who tries to stop you? Well there's criminal damage to the clamp and the sparks will make a mess of your paint and put little pits in your windows. Beheading people is fine though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerfan Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Some useful advice here: http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/private-parking-tickets#start Seems ignoring them is a good way of tackling unfair charges. Unlikely that they would try to make a claim through court action but it is a risk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted April 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2012 What about buying a petrol Stihl saw, keeping it in the boot and cutting off any clamps you get and the head of anyone who tries to stop you? Been there, done that. Would probably weigh the clamp in for scrap nowadays. It's a long story but entailed the company giving me "permission" to park (4am behind the Dominion theatre off Tottenham Court rd), when I parked they then clamped me and laughed, I waited till they left and cut the clamp off. Never heard anything from it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon hudson Posted April 17, 2012 Author Share Posted April 17, 2012 The whole issue is about private car parks not council ones apparently council ones are regarded differently to your local supermarket.Yes I'd love to chop the camera down knowing my luck it would fall on me or my car!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted April 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2012 There is hope against these vultures. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/supreme-court-rules-against-car-park-operator/story-e6frf7jo-1226326330457 It seems the court found fault because they look exactly like a council fine, so deceptive. Kevin Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 A friend who is a solicitor told me that if you write 'do not clamp' on your wheel rims and your vehicle gets clamped, call the Police. You have made an offer of contract not to clamp. If they clamp the wheel, they are in breach of contract because they have gone ahead and clamped it without making you an offer or negotiating. The Police can force them to remove the clamp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 A friend who is a solicitor told me that if you write 'do not clamp' on your wheel rims and your vehicle gets clamped, call the Police. You have made an offer of contract not to clamp. If they clamp the wheel, they are in breach of contract because they have gone ahead and clamped it without making you an offer or negotiating. The Police can force them to remove the clamp. You could of course carry around your own set of clamps...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold teaky Posted April 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2012 As per some of the advice above Simon. My wife received one of these "invoices" following an over stay in an out of town (just) group of shops. I did my on-line research. We decided to completely ignore all correspondence and the sequence of events exactly matched what the on-line research suggested. As I recall, it went something like: invitation to pay (writtten to look like a fine), further letter suggesting legal action, solicitors letter, further solicitors letter, nothing ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted April 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 17, 2012 You could of course carry around your own set of clamps...... A friend of mine who is a keen caravaner had a clamp used for securing his 'van. Several years ago having sold his then caravan he went to a caravan dealer to view a replacement, leaving the clamp in the boot. When he came out of the dealers he found he had been clamped because he had parked in the car park of the adjoining property (there was no indication of where one parking area began and the other finished). When the clampers turned up to collect the 'fine' whilst someone diverted the clampers attention he used his clamp to clamp their van. He then insisted that they remove the clamp from his car before he released their van at which point they became very aggressive but fortunately he had already called the police who turned up at that moment. As it was private property the police told the clampers that they could not make my friend remove the clamp and also warned them about their aggressive behavior. The outcome was that they removed their clamp from my friends car, which he moved to a part of the car park that was not within the clampers remit before releasing the van. An added bonus was as soon as the clampers van moved back onto the public highway the police stopped them because their van had no tax! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
noiseboy72 Posted April 17, 2012 Share Posted April 17, 2012 Ignore any fines on private property. These rely on a silent contract - IE: you read and agreed to the conditions on a sign. It simply is not enforcable. The maximum amount they can claim through the civil courts is the amount they lost through lost income. If the car park was free, then they cannot claim anything back! These companies prey on the weak, be one of the strong! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted April 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 17, 2012 I hope the OP doesn't take this as directed at him but the simplest way to avoid such a fine is not to park on private property or follow the rules if you do, I'm afraid that I find the attempts by many to wriggle out of paying almost as bad as those solicitors who get celebrities off a variety of offences on technicalities, don't do the crime and you don't have to pay the fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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