Modelling Spam Cans (Bulleid Pacifics)

[Mallard60022]

I think '74 is a dead Duck for me as it was Withdrawn in June 1963 .

That sorts that out!

Fairly sure I have found that Kenley and '58 had their crests swapped in late Works visit 1960 and never changed back! First time I'd read that in Derry!

Such fun...keeps me cool...NOT!

70 appears to maybe be a better bet!

Phil

[Mallard60022]

I've informed The Cornwall Railway Society about the caption error with '74, from their collection of Mike Morant pictures. That was then used on the SREMG's pages.

I have let them know too.

Phil

Edited August 10, 2022 by Mallard60022
Deed done

[John Tomlinson]

On 08/08/2022 at 15:40, Mallard60022 said:

I find that 74s tender was Modified/Cut Down for my period so that helps, as I have many of them.

I thought it had a Raves tender till scrapping, but nope.

Looks like I will have to consider making Tangmere, with raved Tender, into 34070 as Tangmere's Tender was Cut in 1958.

Now to check '70!

I'll try to find a suitable donor for '74, BUT I think I have two City of Wells to become '74. I need to double check! Maybe I'd planned this ages ago and forgotten!

Thanks for all the help everyone.

P

 

Intrigued by this, I have now had a delve into Derry.

 

My offer is that this in fact is 34076, "41 Squadron".

 

One of three with the positioning of the plates to be able to get the arrrow from "Golden Arrow" on the bodyside. See photo on p72 of book.

 

Moved from Eastern Section to be re-shedded to 72A Exmouth Jn., on 8th October 1957.

 

Fitted with 4500g tender no.3275 (i.e. narrow) at Eastleigh in September 1957, no doubt on the works visit prior to re-allocation to 72A.

 

Fitted with AWS, hence box just above the buffer beam, during General Overhaul, 6 - 8/59. Withdrawn January 1966, so pic sometime between.

 

John.

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

I've informed The Cornwall Railway Society about the caption error with '74, from their collection of Mike Morant pictures. That was then used on the SREMG's pages.

I have let them know too.

Phil

Thanks, after a little more perusal, it looks likely to be 34076 in the picture, 72A engine, correct GA crest placing, correct tender and a number that could be easily misinterpreted as 34074 in a photo that has to be blown up very substantially for it to be readable at all.     

 

FWIW, If intending to use a photo as a modelling reference, I habitually check that the caption matches the printed references for the loco it's stated to be, and the year the picture is claimed to have been taken. 

 

An error rate of around 5% seems fairly typical. 

 

One I particularly recall related to 34061 "73 Squadron" which had been involved in an accident but the caption suggested the photo (in which the damage was evident) had been taken after it had been repaired! Almost right, but evidently a year adrift, and probably just a simple typo. 

 

John

Edited August 10, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

8 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

Intrigued by this, I have now had a delve into Derry.

 

My offer is that this in fact is 34076, "41 Squadron".

 

One of three with the positioning of the plates to be able to get the arrrow from "Golden Arrow" on the bodyside. See photo on p72 of book.

 

Moved from Eastern Section to be re-shedded to 72A Exmouth Jn., on 8th October 1957.

 

Fitted with 4500g tender no.3275 (i.e. narrow) at Eastleigh in September 1957, no doubt on the works visit prior to re-allocation to 72A.

 

Fitted with AWS, hence box just above the buffer beam, during General Overhaul, 6 - 8/59. Withdrawn January 1966, so pic sometime between.

 

John.

And transferred to Eastleigh, 09/1964, which narrows it down a little more.

 

John S.

[Oldddudders]

Hornby R2369 is 34074. They seemed convinced it had run Arrow duties, providing them and holes in the casing. 

[Dunsignalling]

19 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Hornby R2369 is 34074. They seemed convinced it had run Arrow duties, providing them and holes in the casing. 

There's a picture in Derry (P.36), captioned as 34074 clearly showing it with Arrow attached, but is dated March 1949 and the loco is carrying neither nameplate or badge.

 

John

 

EDIT. The Hornby model of 34074 reflects that condition, which lasted probably only a month or two before naming. Formal ceremonies had ceased by this time.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[John Tomlinson]

18 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Hornby R2369 is 34074. They seemed convinced it had run Arrow duties, providing them and holes in the casing. 

 

This looks right, as according to Derry, 34074 was one of the ones that could be fitted with the arrow from "Golden Arrow" (there's actually a 1949 picture of 34074 in Derry on p36, with the arrow fitted).

 

Moreover 34074 also received a 4500g tender around the same time as 34076 (02/58). However, the photo above of 34074 at end of life with a high rave tender is borne out by Derry as the one it carried in service, as this being only one of five that weren't modified with cut-down raves (see p35).

 

John.

Edited August 10, 2022 by John Tomlinson

[Dunsignalling]

5 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

This looks right, as according to Derry, 34074 was one of the ones that could be fitted with the arrow from "Golden Arrow" (there's actually a 1949 picture of 34074 in Derry on p36, with the arrow fitted).

 

Moreover 34074 also received a 4500g tender around the same time as 34076 (02/58). However, the photo above of 34074 at end of life with a high rave tender is borne out by Derry as the one it carried in service, as this being only one of five that weren't modified with cut-down raves (see p35).

 

John.

Are we turning the pages of Derry in unison, John?😀

[Mallard60022]

Been a little bit of intriguing fun this has. Apologies if it took us off on a bit of tangent.

Great to get so many double checks and confirmations as well as good advice, as always.

Thanks gain

P

[John Tomlinson]

As this is a Spamcan thread, its worth mentioning that if you click on the life end picture of 34074 above, you get to the picture in Flickr.

 

If you then click on the man's name (it isn't his original picture), you get a whole set of BR (SR) pics with many Bulleid Pacifics.

 

John.

[SD85]

Regarding tenders, I should add another useful fact for those modelling Southern steam in 1967. 34021 Dartmoor is recorded in most accounts (including Derry I think) as retaining a 5500 gallon tender until withdrawal in July that year. However numerous shots of the locomotive in 1967 show that it was running for some time before and up to withdrawal with a 4500 gallon one.

 

Hope this is of use.

Edited August 16, 2022 by SD85

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, SD85 said:

Regarding tenders, I should add another useful fact for those modelling Southern steam in 1967. 34021 Dartmoor is recorded in most accounts (including Derry I think) as retaining a 5500 gallon tender until withdrawal in July that year. However numerous shots of the locomotive in 1967 show that it was running for some time before and up to withdrawal with a 4500 gallon one.

 

Hope this is of use.

IIRC, 34018 Axminster had a similar tender swap fairly late on, though I think that is included in Derry. 

 

Things got rather "ad hoc" in the last few weeks/months.  If done at a running shed, and involving a tender from the scrap line, such exchanges could easily have failed to get onto the engine card, especially if no further works visit occurred before withdrawal.

 

Even in earlier times, unrecorded temporary swaps were not unknown, usually lasting only a few days while a fault on a loco's own tender was dealt with.   

 

John

[Mallard60022]

Slightly odd request as usual. 

The total Lack of Spare Accessory Packs for WC BB (the Brake Rods apparatus really) from any supplier has left me thinking if anyone has found an alternative 'method' of making those?

It seems that MN ones are available from some suppliers.

Phil

[Dunsignalling]

51 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Slightly odd request as usual. 

The total Lack of Spare Accessory Packs for WC BB (the Brake Rods apparatus really) from any supplier has left me thinking if anyone has found an alternative 'method' of making those?

It seems that MN ones are available from some suppliers.

Phil

Hi. Phil.

 

You can get etched brass ones off RT Models, much more robust.

 

John 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

Thanks John. I'd forgotten that they existed.

P

Edited August 22, 2022 by Mallard60022
Mistaken

[John Tomlinson]

15 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Thanks John. I'd forgotten that they existed.

P

 

If you are doing an order to RT, there are several useful goodies on his website. The cast front steps actually have a proper means of fitting to the front buffer beam, and consequently are far more forgiving than the Hornby ones, which seem to fall off if you breathe on them!

 

John.

[Mallard60022]

22 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

If you are doing an order to RT, there are several useful goodies on his website. The cast front steps actually have a proper means of fitting to the front buffer beam, and consequently are far more forgiving than the Hornby ones, which seem to fall off if you breathe on them!

John.

Umm yes John. I sort of got 'stocked up' apart from Brake Roads. Drain Pipes, Steps etc. I had to restrict myself as I need to CHECK tender Tops before getting carried away.

A lot of my Loco Stock is pre owned and often the essential 'bits' were/are missing. However this sort of detailing is a nice winter occupation.

Many thanks,

Phil

 

 

[John Tomlinson]

22 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Umm yes John. I sort of got 'stocked up' apart from Brake Roads. Drain Pipes, Steps etc. I had to restrict myself as I need to CHECK tender Tops before getting carried away.

A lot of my Loco Stock is pre owned and often the essential 'bits' were/are missing. However this sort of detailing is a nice winter occupation.

Many thanks,

Phil

 

 

 

Me too, very rare to buy anything "new" now unless it is on sale.

 

How is it do think that people are so dim as to lose the detailing packs? Just careless I suppose, or else take a look and say "I can't be bothered with that" and chuck it away. Apparently surveys have shown that only a small number are actually fitted by the customer. In my view, they make a lot of difference, along with other things like trying to shorten the loco/ tender distance, if not to prototype then at least to the minimum to work on your layout.

 

John.

Edited August 24, 2022 by John Tomlinson
spelling mistake

[Mallard60022]

Never rains etc.

Just acquired a 2002, 35029. Broken, well destroyed by something,  Valve Gear and some minor damage to the Loco body. Fixed that body damge, bar some details like Whistle, some of the Injector Pipework and a Tender Ladder (some of the rear Lamps are missing too).

Bit of glue showing on the Smoke Box, where someone has reattached the onside Smoke Deflector with an excess of something horrid, but nothing some weathering won't hide.

It actually works smoothly, which is a start! I had to refit the mangled pick up strips and reattach the Base Plate that holds those. Stripped off the bits of Rods that were actually still attached. New Valve gear set coming from Lendons. (Less than a tenner).

However, some of the Hex Bolts for the Coupling Rods don't seem to fit the hole in the wheel.  Strange as I am sure they all came out of those holes! 

Firstly does anyone know which Bolts these are as an Accessory for this particular Loco; none of my spares seem to want to fit? I have asked Hornby!

Second, if the thread in the little brass wheel insert part is knackered, what could I do to deal with that?

I think I can deal with most other stuff, except those missing Tender Lamps are very detailed and a special part that plug fits by the look of it? The cast ones from RT look 'crude'. Any suggestions for a replacement or do I have to actually make a few from Plasticard? (Dread that thought). 

Why bother you may ask? Well I either have  a decent Engine for around £50, including the new spares, or a  source of swapsy Body, Tender and maybe Chassis. It wont be 35029, unless I do this as a pre AWS/Speedo version, as I have an as new 35029 already.  

Many thanks.

Phil

[John Tomlinson]

3 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Never rains etc.

Just acquired a 2002, 35029. Broken, well destroyed by something,  Valve Gear and some minor damage to the Loco body. Fixed that body damge, bar some details like Whistle, some of the Injector Pipework and a Tender Ladder (some of the rear Lamps are missing too).

Bit of glue showing on the Smoke Box, where someone has reattached the onside Smoke Deflector with an excess of something horrid, but nothing some weathering won't hide.

It actually works smoothly, which is a start! I had to refit the mangled pick up strips and reattach the Base Plate that holds those. Stripped off the bits of Rods that were actually still attached. New Valve gear set coming from Lendons. (Less than a tenner).

However, some of the Hex Bolts for the Coupling Rods don't seem to fit the hole in the wheel.  Strange as I am sure they all came out of those holes! 

Firstly does anyone know which Bolts these are as an Accessory for this particular Loco; none of my spares seem to want to fit? I have asked Hornby!

Second, if the thread in the little brass wheel insert part is knackered, what could I do to deal with that?

I think I can deal with most other stuff, except those missing Tender Lamps are very detailed and a special part that plug fits by the look of it? The cast ones from RT look 'crude'. Any suggestions for a replacement or do I have to actually make a few from Plasticard? (Dread that thought). 

Why bother you may ask? Well I either have  a decent Engine for around £50, including the new spares, or a  source of swapsy Body, Tender and maybe Chassis. It wont be 35029, unless I do this as a pre AWS/Speedo version, as I have an as new 35029 already.  

Many thanks.

Phil

 

I'm not sure if the hex bolt for the driving (middle) axle is the same thread as that for the other two.

 

The driving axle hex bolts come in different sizes with  different lengths of the untapped part that takes the washer and the connecting rod. I've bought little packs of both bolt and varied washers from parts suppliers in the past, and used different ones to those on the loco to push out the big end further, making the con rod less likely to foul the hex bolt on the front driving wheel.

 

John.

[Mallard60022]

31 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

I'm not sure if the hex bolt for the driving (middle) axle is the same thread as that for the other two.

 

The driving axle hex bolts come in different sizes with  different lengths of the untapped part that takes the washer and the connecting rod. I've bought little packs of both bolt and varied washers from parts suppliers in the past, and used different ones to those on the loco to push out the big end further, making the con rod less likely to foul the hex bolt on the front driving wheel.

 

John.

Thanks for that. Yes that's what's been happening John. I'll wait till the VG Set arrives as I think it includes Coupling Rod Bolts.

I'm normally much more careful about removal of Bolts etc. and placing them in the correct 'order'. This time I was slapdash.

Not working on it today anyway so it can wait.

Was looking for a new Speedo yesterday. £10+ post; AC Models.! Nah, I'm not that desperate! I have the 'Eccentric' for the Driving Wheel, so I'll furnish one from wire and summit else for the Loco Footplate End.

3' rule applies!

Phil

[Dunsignalling]

6 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Thanks for that. Yes that's what's been happening John. I'll wait till the VG Set arrives as I think it includes Coupling Rod Bolts.

I'm normally much more careful about removal of Bolts etc. and placing them in the correct 'order'. This time I was slapdash.

Not working on it today anyway so it can wait.

Was looking for a new Speedo yesterday. £10+ post; AC Models.! Nah, I'm not that desperate! I have the 'Eccentric' for the Driving Wheel, so I'll furnish one from wire and summit else for the Loco Footplate End.

3' rule applies!

Phil

I consider the Hornby speedo drives to be a PITA at any price!

 

I'm still working through my ancient stock of castings bought in person from Albert Goodall of fond memory, which don't attach at the wheel end - much easier all round. 

 

Hope RT still does them for when I finally run out....

 

John

Edited August 24, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

I consider the Hornby speedo drives to be a PITA at any price!

 

I'm still working through my ancient stock of castings bought in person from Albert Goodall of fond memory, which don't attach at the wheel end - much easier all round. 

 

Hope RT still does them for when I finally run out....

 

John

Just going to check John. Was busy actually on the real railway today.

Sadly they don't appear to be there.

Phil

[Dunsignalling]

44 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Just going to check John. Was busy actually on the real railway today.

Sadly they don't appear to be there.

Phil

 

Looks like I'll need to make my own, like you, then Phil. 🙂