Arthur Posted June 27, 2014 Share Posted June 27, 2014 And, if serving the works, you'll need a good few as well. The works history as it currently stands (other history's are available) has it as a cold charge, open hearth works in the 1960's. The open hearths would be oil fired and consume considerably more oil than the reheating furnaces would have in 1990's mode. As has been said elsewhere, an anchor mounted tank is a big gap in the RTR ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted June 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2014 Quite a number of Midland Tar Distillers tanks were moved around the Black Country from gas works. I don't know what the exact workings were but I suspect they were tripped to Bordesley, as I saw some full train loads going north through Snow Hill heading towards Oldbury. Paul Bartlett's site has some photos but site is under maintenance at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted June 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Rattling my brains on the Nechells area, the ACC tanks at Curzon St which came out from Aston Gas Works ground frame were probably not tar. There was a chemical works adjacent to the gas works by Saltley station which I seem to remember belonged to Brothertons. Since Birmingham Corporation Gas Department days they had a contract for processing various by-products from the gas works. Whatever the process was it gave off lots of nitrogen dioxide so could have been associated with some ammonia related process. There was a tar works off Aston Church Road, which was connected to the Aston-Stechford line at Robinsons Sidings ground frame, just east of the Derby line bridge at Washwood Heath. I believe that Robinsons was owned by Midland Tar Distillers but can't confirm this. Regarding traffic on the South Staffs, Jan Ford's Blog has various references to Midland Tar Distillers tanks in freight trains passing Sedgeley Junction. Edited June 27, 2014 by TheSignalEngineer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted June 28, 2014 Share Posted June 28, 2014 Mention of tank wagons in posts above, makes it opportune to point to a current thread on Oil terminals around the country ... see... http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35437-oil-terminals-no-more/ Post #33 in this thread lists oil terminals, without dates at, :- Rowley Regis BromsgroveCharringtons Hawkesbury Lane (Between Coventry and Nuneaton) Albion (Sandwell and Dudley) All near enough to justify traffic via BCB ?? And post #96 has interesting details of other traffic And an extract from a 1971/2 WTT at post #169 Quote:- Hard to believe how many paths were catered for during 1971/72, but this is what the WTT contained back then:- . 6M33 1715 Coy Hebrandston-Shrewsbury 6M34 2325 MX Coy Tidal Sidings-Soho Pool 6M37 2100 Coy Llandarcy-Rowley Regis 6M38 0600 Coy Llandarcy-Rowley Regis 6M39 1840 Coy Llandarcy-Rowley Regis 6M40 0335 MX Coy Llandarcy-Rowley Regis, Witton, Wednesbury or Spring Vale 6M41 1140 Coy Llandarcy-Rowley Regis 6M49 0955 Coy Waterston-Albion 6M50 1510 Coy Waterston-Albion 6M51 0500 Coy Waterston-Kingsbury 6M52 2025 Coy MX Waterston-Albion 6M53 0048 MX Coy Waterston-Albion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeh Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) Rattling my brains on the Nechells area, the ACC tanks at Curzon St which came out from Aston Gas Works ground frame were probably not tar. There was a chemical works adjacent to the gas works by Saltley station which I seem to remember belonged to Brothertons. Since Birmingham Corporation Gas Department days they had a contract for processing various by-products from the gas works. Whatever the process was it gave off lots of nitrogen dioxide so could have been associated with some ammonia related process. There was a tar works off Aston Church Road, which was connected to the Aston-Stechford line at Robinsons Sidings ground frame, just east of the Derby line bridge at Washwood Heath. I believe that Robinsons was owned by Midland Tar Distillers but can't confirm this. Regarding traffic on the South Staffs, Jan Ford's Blog has various references to Midland Tar Distillers tanks in freight trains passing Sedgeley Junction. The Brothertons works were indeed alongside Nechells Gas Works and took by-products directly from there. The had siding connections to both the Midland and LNW lines, the later as Eric says via the connection to Nechels Gas Works at Aston Gas Siding Ground Frame. Robinson Brothers did become part of Midland Tar Distillers. There was traffic to there tripped the short distance from Windsor Street Gas Works, amongst others. In the mid 60s there were relatively few block oil workings, the main ones being to Albion, Soho Pool and Rowley Regis as already mentioned. As others started up, to industrial locations, these were often one way block trains with the empties tripped out and sent back by normal wagon load trains.Flows that started in the later 60s included Naptha to gas works at Coleshill, Tipton and Nechells, the Tipton one being of BCB interest. Sources were Thames Haven, Fawley, Milford Haven and Avonmouth for a while. For a mid-60s BCB I would suggest tanks for the works would be tripped in daily in blocks of four or five on one of the Bescot trippers. Which reminds me I promised Mark a 1960s WTT.... Regards Mike Edited June 30, 2014 by mikeh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted June 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2014 (edited) I well remember the Fawley - Tipton workings. One Saturday I was at Dudley Port with a possession of the interlocking for changes at Albion. A Class 33 appeared at the Up Goods Loop exit signal, which was the start of our block. It had come via the Princes End branch. There was no way that New St could set a route to get him out so they called us to see if we could help release him. It's amazing what you can do with pressing the Registry Relays on the old Westronic F1. Engine released, crew happy. Edited June 30, 2014 by TheSignalEngineer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted July 1, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2014 Quite a number of Midland Tar Distillers tanks were moved around the Black Country from gas works. I don't know what the exact workings were but I suspect they were tripped to Bordesley, as I saw some full train loads going north through Snow Hill heading towards Oldbury. Paul Bartlett's site has some photos but site is under maintenance at the moment. We have one of their wagons in the fleet, might need a few more then! (just straight out of the box Hornby, except for wheels and couplings) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted July 1, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2014 Don't forget that they had lots like this 14T Anchor Mount and older. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mtd/h32835152#h25e50e3c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted July 1, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2014 We have one of their wagons in the fleet, might need a few more then! DSCF3563.RAF.jpg (just straight out of the box Hornby, except for wheels and couplings) Looks HO to me Mark... (Joke from another thread) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted July 1, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2014 Bachmann did an earlier 14T for Warley show but they are offered at silly money. POW Sides did a transfer for about £3 so a rattle can and some S/H wagons would look a better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) Bachmann did an earlier 14T for Warley show but they are offered at silly money. POW Sides did a transfer for about £3 so a rattle can and some S/H wagons would look a better option. A problem being that the MTD fleet appears to have gone largely unrecorded - even Tourret has little on them. The main batch we did record by measuring were anchor mounted, and as already mentioned, there is no sign of a model of these in 4mm. Unfortunately, like all tank wagons, there was considerable variation in each of the designs of anchor mounted wagons. Paul Edited July 1, 2014 by hmrspaul 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted July 1, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2014 I agree about the lack of pictures of MTD tanks. Considering they were a daily sight at Snow Hill I'm struggling to find a shot of one in traffic. Similarly with ACC although I saw them on an almost daily basis the only photo I've seen in traffic is Paul's that is linked above in post 528. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Clive Mortimer of this parish seems to have done some research, coming to similar conclusion re. the paucity of pictures. see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61979-hanging-hill/#entry812931 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 You are probably aware of this site devoted to freight :- http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/index.htm#stock and the page detailing some of the designs :- http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/4-rstock/5-tank.htm#top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 An acquaintance suggests, as a basis for research, the most likely "suspects" for supply of tank wagons in the 1960s were :- Powell Duffryn, possibly through subsidiary Cambrian Wagon .... history at http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/powell-duffryn-plc-history/ Marcroft Wagons of Swansea .... http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1955ICSW-Marcroft.jpg Standard Wagon ... http://www.tymawrpublications.co.uk/BooksWagon.html W H Davis ... of Langwith, Mansfield.... still in business ... http://www.whdavis.co.uk/ searching for "BR Tar wagons" threw up ... stock list at Northampton & Lamport Rly Ex Private Owner (PO) Wagons ? 3777 Esso Tank Wagon (B.R. registration) ? 7307 Tar Wagon (G.W.R. registration) **** For Sale **** ... Picture at http://www.nlr.org.uk/about-nlr/stock-list/wagons/ Didcot Museum have a 1898 ex GWR, Chas. Roberts Tar wagon listed ... http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/guide/wagons.html Llanelli and Mynydd Mawr Railway list three tar wagons in their stock Birmingham Library has a file ref. MS 1179 .... Midland Tar Distillers 1941 -1958 (sadly, no pictures) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 An acquaintance suggests, as a basis for research, the most likely "suspects" for supply of tank wagons in the 1960s were :- Powell Duffryn, possibly through subsidiary Cambrian Wagon .... history at http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/powell-duffryn-plc-history/ Marcroft Wagons of Swansea .... http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/File:Im1955ICSW-Marcroft.jpg Standard Wagon ... http://www.tymawrpublications.co.uk/BooksWagon.html W H Davis ... of Langwith, Mansfield.... still in business ... http://www.whdavis.co.uk/ searching for "BR Tar wagons" threw up ... stock list at Northampton & Lamport Rly Ex Private Owner (PO) Wagons ? 3777 Esso Tank Wagon (B.R. registration) ? 7307 Tar Wagon (G.W.R. registration) **** For Sale **** ... Picture at http://www.nlr.org.uk/about-nlr/stock-list/wagons/ Didcot Museum have a 1898 ex GWR, Chas. Roberts Tar wagon listed ... http://www.didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/guide/wagons.html Llanelli and Mynydd Mawr Railway list three tar wagons in their stock Birmingham Library has a file ref. MS 1179 .... Midland Tar Distillers 1941 -1958 (sadly, no pictures) I don't think Marcrofts built wagons in those days, merely repaired them. Tank wagon builders that come to mind include Hurst-Nelson, Gloucester Carriage and Wagon (who certainly built pressurised-gas wagons during the period in question), South Staffs at Tipton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 A quick follow-up to Fat controller's post:_ NRM have a file of Hurst Nelson drawings .... (I assume at York) ALS3/102/A/7/1 Hurst Nelson & Co, Lon Official album of wagons built, including for export, No 37, c 1939-1941 Gloucester Carriage and Wagon http://apps.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=040-d4791&cid=0#0 includes Photo Albums as part of production records Archive held at :- Clarence RowAlvin StreetGloucesterGL1 3DWEngland And ... http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mickssrsource/tpagesrs/tpowagbutton.html Lists this reference (article or drawing or picture???) NCB 20 ton TAR TANK MRN Oct-90 NCB48374 Lagged & fitted with steam coils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Quick thread hijack, if I may - is the BRCW archive available/accessible anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 The address given by Don is the Gloucestershire archives, just round the corner from the station. I've dealt with them in the day job and found them very helpful. They have a lot of GLoucester RCW material. Jonathan - a quick search of the National Register of Archives, the best place for locating corporate records in the UK - suggests the Staffordshire archives in Stoke on Trent would be a good place to start. Since I'm searching on the phone,scrolling through the search results isn't too straightforward so I can't be sure they hold things like drawings. They certainly have the business records however. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indomitable026 Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 Eight out of the Seven Black Country Blues team met last night. We drank beer, ate pies and talked - well you know - Major plans were hatched...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Upside down !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 And now in Stereo (or at least the right way up) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted August 5, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 5, 2014 Eight out of the Seven Black Country Blues team met last night. We drank beer, ate pies and talked - well you know - image.jpg Major plans were hatched...... Posted by iPad by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I see the Wagonbasher's glass is in it's usual virtually empty state. "Do you want a pudding sir?", "Yes, Doombar." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avonside1563 Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I see the Wagonbasher's glass is in it's usual virtually empty state. "Do you want a pudding sir?", "Yes, Doombar." Of which he had single handedly succeeded in drinking the barrel dry! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now