Black Country Blues

[Mark Forrest]

A history of Guy motors can be found here;

there are a couple of photos of the factory in Lady Wulfrun's flickr collection:

Guy Motors Factory, Park Lane, Wolverhampton by Lady Wulfrun, on Flickr

 

Guy Motors Limited. by Lady Wulfrun, on Flickr

[RANGERS]

The Guy in the picture has the operating division on the cab door, it's not clear but the second line looks to be Tinsley Park Works (the top line looks like Stocksbridge), indicating Sheffield and hence a Sheffield plate. Usual practice until very recently was the purchaser or supplying dealer would register the vehicles, not the manufacturer so they would be registered at the local VLO.

[Coombe Barton]

The level of attention to detail that everyone's putting into this is astounding. We're talking about something that's about a millimetre high and will only be registered by perhaps 0.01% of people not on RMweb eventually seeing the layout.

 

It really is a tribute that so many peole are giving of their knowledge and expertise ao that the final product is as perfect as it can be in interpretation.

[Mark Forrest]

I have a quick question about the fuel tanks for our Stanlow Shell - Trafalgar Sidings workings (7L35 and 7L41).  Am I correct in thinking  these would be grey Class A tanks?  If so, is the livery applied to these suitable for our era?  I've found a photo of some in 1971 which appear to be in this livery, so just wanted to check.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Just wait until we see what size rivets the numberplate has been fitted to the bumper with, you ain't seen nothing yet!

 

Mike.

 

(I would have used a smiley, but they are greyed out for some reason)

[Coombe Barton]

Or would they be screws?

 

And if so, straight or Phillips?

[The Stationmaster]

I have a quick question about the fuel tanks for our Stanlow Shell - Trafalgar Sidings workings (7L35 and 7L41).  Am I correct in thinking  hese would be grey Class A tanks?  If so, is the livery applied to these suitable for our era?  I've found a photo of some in 1971 which appear to be in this livery, so just wanted to check.

What product are they supposed to be carrying Mark?  It it's diesel or gas oil they will be grey cars.

[Guest Phil]

Bear in mind that this was mid 1960s with vacuum braked tanks

http://www.derbysulzers.com/92094chester66.jpg

and this was 1967

http://www.derbysulzers.com/92047stockport67.jpg

 

And this was less than two decades later - link to the shot of the Aberystwyth Stanlow empties climbing Talerddig.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tunnel_one/6775254501/sizes/l/

 

 

You need to be pitched in between, and it is a moot point as to whether the tanks would still be vacuum braked in 1975. If I were a BCBer I'd be treating a rake of those Bachmann tanks to some very very heavy weathering, turning them practically black, then adding all the gunge and dust to them. Don't forget the distinctive number plate between the top of the ladders at the laddered end. This was a trademark of the Stanlow tanks IIRC

Edited December 30, 2012 by Phil

[Enterprisingwestern]

Phillips or Pozidrive?

 

Mike.

[Coombe Barton]

Phillips or Pozidrive?

 

Mike.

 

Or one of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives

 

 

And how rusted would they be?

 

[EDIT] Pozidriv screws weren't developed until the 1960s, so maybe a little early for them to be on trucks of the era?

Edited December 30, 2012 by Coombe Barton

[2ManySpams]

Can't see the promised Pie dispenser either, and that track needs ballasting...

Not overly sure about the sleeper spacing / colour either...

[2ManySpams]

A quick overlay of the map onto Andy's original (!) map

 

BCB_map_v4.jpg bcb map.jpg

Good job somebody else is paying attention! Well done that man.

[Indomitable026]

And then there were two.....

 

 

Not wired yet, but had enough - off to the pub

[Worsdell forever]

And then there were two.....

Keep 'em apart, you don't want too many...

[2ManySpams]

Keep 'em apart, you don't want too many...

Would save a lot of time and effort that way...and with genetic engineering you could have any fiddle yard you wanted...

 

(Busy burning No1 daughter's music on to her Nexus 7)

[DonB]

I worked for a couple of years at a Screw manufacturer in Birmingham in 1953/55. A little before I arrived there, they we were involved in the development and design of the heading tools for producing the cruciform drive shape, so that they could get into the market for the self-tapping screws. I remember the hours of examining the raw material wire for defects before allowing it to go into production. Pozidrive came much later.

My understanding was that the catalyst for the Philips design was that they could not be undone by a normal screw driver, or, in the case of larger sizes, with the use of a coin, thus reducing pilferage during war-time!. (Urban myth??)

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Evenin' chaps,

 

Hazchem labels are unlikely to be a feature in 1975, also a lot of tank wagons had pre-TOPS numbers then.

 

Cheers

 

Dave.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71

[Indomitable026]

 

Would save a lot of time and effort that way...and with genetic engineering you could have any fiddle yard you wanted...

 

(Busy burning No1 daughter's music on to her Nexus 7)

That raises more questions;

 

How many daughters do you have?

 

What would you're ultimate "GM" fiddle yard look like?

 

What the hell is a Nexus 7 ??????

[figworthy]

BSC vehicles would have been registered locally by the operating division they belonged to. The minerals division were mostly registered in Northants, not certain about the Tubes Division though, although the escort and Transit vans and Ford D Series tractor units were supplied by Wards of Wellingborough, and had Northants plates, there were a couple of Leyland Bison tippers which ended up on internal use in the tube works at Corby which had KY plates (Rotherham?), but it's possible they were transferred from outside.

KY (along with KU and KW) used to be Bradford, but I've seen suggestions that it was taken over by Sheffield in 1974.

 

 

Adrian

[Talltim]

This book is worth a read , although probably not necessary to build a Guy! http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Good_Turn_(book)

 

Edit: RMWeb really doesn't like URLs with parenthesis at the end

Edited December 30, 2012 by Talltim

[TheSignalEngineer]

Hi Andy

 

I think the spur at Princes End was actually built, certainly the formation was, but there is some doubt if it ever opened. In 1921 part of the formation was used for Tranters Siding which served Tranters Boiler Works and remained in situ until 1967. The OWW line stayed open until April 1968 to serve the South Staffs Wagon works but closed once a connection was laid in to the Stour Valley at Bloomfield Jn. There was a proposal in 1969 to re-open it between Tipton and Dudley with a chord from the Stour at Bloomfield, but this came to nothing.

 

One other point regarding your revised map, surely the connection to serve the 'Shaft should face Darlaston?

 

Regards

Mike

At both ends there were some earthworks indicating that there could have been a chord started but not finished, possibly only the bridge at the High Street near Bradleys Lane was missing. The earthworks are clearly visible on the 1887 OS Map at co-ordinates 395400, 293700 available through www.old-maps.co.uk.

 

Unlike Andy's map the OWW end seems to head towards Bilston, just right for the steeleworks.

[wagonbasher]

 

That raises more questions;

 

How many daughters do you have?

 

What would you're ultimate "GM" fiddle yard look like?

 

What the hell is a Nexus 7 ??????

 

Chris is clearly keeping his options open like fleet numbering in the diagrams book

 

A

[Arthur]

I’ve divided the build into three components, the cab, the tractor chassis and the trailer.  For the cab, this was the starting point (which I forgot to photograph!, but this stock photo will do, though mine was in a light grey, BRS livery);

 

 

 

The other donor vehicle was a Base Toys AEC Mercury tractor and trailer. That was similarly dismembered, and from that I will use the tractor chassis and the trailer bogie. The trailer body will be scratch built.

 

 

The Cab.  The rivets holding on the axle keeper were drilled out and the cab separated, with a thin cutting disc in a 4.5” angle grinder, just behind the leading mudguard.  The cab, interior and glazing were the only parts used, the rest going into the spares box.

 

Here’s the cab stripped down, drilled for mirror brackets, and wipers. The original lacks the narrow rear window which was such a feature on the actual Motor Panels pressings. As it's very obvious on a tractor unit I drilled and filed one out.  The headboard on the roof is being built up from styrene, superglued on and then flooded with araldite to make it secure. A panel of plasticard will form the top.  The front bumper will be built up from overlays of plasticard to represent the heavy steel channel of the prototype, complete with recess for the towing pintle. I did intend to preserve the printed GUY name on the cab front but it kind of disappeared at some point during the work......Plan B will have to be implemented.

 

 

I made the mistake at this point of surfing the net for prototype photographs and came up with some photos and drawings showing the cab rear.....and suddenly an air intake/ filter and header tank seemed essential.....

 

The header tank is a piece of 60 thou with a corner chopped off. Three bits of tiny micro strip form the pressed strengthening ribs and the filler neck is a bit of wire.  The air filter comprises a short length of plastic tube with the ends filled, the intake is a length of plastic rod and the cap was punched from 60 thou and shaped by spinning and filing in a mini drill. The lower air pipe is bent up from brass wire which locates in a hole in the lower cab.  All of these additions are attached with a short length of brass wire inserted into holes drilled into the cab.

 

Parts for the air cleaner

 

 

A cruel close up of the cab rear, a bit of tidying up methinks.

 

 

TBC

 

 

And here’s the cab interior, details picked out in paint, gear lever from a pin, the head is etched with the correct gate pattern for a Guy Five speed, you’ll have to trust me on that one.....

The driver is from Slaters, horribly mutilated with scalpel and pliers to better look the part.  Finally a bit of paper was UHU’ed to the dashboard to replicate that in the prototype photo.

 

 

I primed the tractor unit with Tamiya grey primer, it gives a nice thin coat, tidied it up, and gave it a second coat.  The inside was brush painted light blue and, when dry, the first of two coats of thinned Precision Paints BSC blue was brushed on. The bumper was painted a slightly off white, just to kill the glare.

 

Here’s a head on shot with the completed cab headboard, I think that the basic casting is a pretty good representation of the prototype.

 

 

TBC

[R A Watson]

Watching that clip from The Gaffer the thing that struck me was the works yard and entrance, was it then prototype for Stubby's building?

 

Wally

[Mark Forrest]

What product are they supposed to be carrying Mark?  It it's diesel or gas oil they will be grey cars.

We are moving heavy oil for the re-heating furnaces - I'd assumed this to be diesel, but could be wrong

 

Bear in mind that this was mid 1960s with vacuum braked tanks

http://www.derbysulzers.com/92094chester66.jpg

and this was 1967

http://www.derbysulzers.com/92047stockport67.jpg

 

And this was less than two decades later - link to the shot of the Aberystwyth Stanlow empties climbing Talerddig.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tunnel_one/6775254501/sizes/l/

 

You need to be pitched in between, and it is a moot point as to whether the tanks would still be vacuum braked in 1975.

Are the first two black Class B tanks or were Class A tanks really that filthy? The Talerddig shot is lovely - it's now my desktop wallpaper on the workbench PC

 

 

 

Hazchem labels are unlikely to be a feature in 1975, also a lot of tank wagons had pre-TOPS numbers then.

 

In those respects the Bachmann model in the link above looks promising then - cheers