Black Country Blues

[2ManySpams]

Oi ! I resemble that remark !

 

Too true....!

[TheSignalEngineer]

Thinking about telegraph poles, most on the old Birmingham S&T division had gone by the mid 1970s. I did a costing for a project for direct burial of cables c1969 on the Hednesford line. The South Staffs would have been done about 1973.

[Andy Y]

That's useful Eric but it may upset OG.

 

Would the wires have been removed leaving the poles for any length of time or would pole removal have happened at the same time as cables being buried?

[TheSignalEngineer]

It varied. There are still a few poles about at the bottom of embankments, some from the 1960s electrification. One stood on the old Harecastle line until at least 2000, and those on the canal at Smethwick have been disused for over 40 years I would guess.

[28XX]

An effort was made to flog them off to adjoining landowners rather than go to the expense of recovering them.  When I was student engineer I chauffeured the Tyseley area signalling inspector (who didn't have a driving license) around the farms on the Aynho - Bicester line trying this trick.  These were the last poles on the B'ham division to go, the date would be winter of 1978 / 9.

 

Damned if I can remember his name, a slight, quietly spoken man, close to retirement, with a shock of snowy white hair.  Shared the end office with Keith Hopkins.

 

For the model, the cut - down stumps would still be visible after, say, 2 years.  Comparatively clean and tidy concrete troughing will be needed as well.

[Andy Y]

An effort was made to flog them off to adjoining landowners rather than go to the expense of recovering them.  

 

Thank you; an interesting concept; it's unlikely they'd have been particularly successful on that slice of BCB so there may be grounds to have poles without wires and with lineside trunking. That should keep OG happy as I did mumble about getting the right sag to the lines if he did start knitting.

[Geoff Cook]

Thank you; an interesting concept; it's unlikely they'd have been particularly successful on that slice of BCB so there may be grounds to have poles without wires and with lineside trunking. That should keep OG happy as I did mumble about getting the right sag to the lines if he did start knitting.

 

But the plan was to eventually run the layout to an earlier time period so the trunking would not really be correct if we do this

[2ManySpams]

But the plan was to eventually run the layout to an earlier time period so the trunking would not really be correct if we do this

 

And given the positive response Tim's nice steamers had, it would be a pity to include 'modern' features that would preclude this.

[TheSignalEngineer]

In areas prone to corrosion of metals such as near a gas works or steelworks many routes were cabled in wooden trunking on posts in LMS/LMR days before concrete troughing was used. I've never seen it on a model as yet, but someone may have done it.

Would probably be an appropriate solution for BCB possibly with an odd couple of old poles or some with with just 4 wires for a couple of circuits to the steelworks, or possibly some old poles on the canal bank. 

Remind me when you get round to it and I will design a few suggestions as to what could be done to cover a wide timeframe, say 1950s to early blue diesel.

Edited March 28, 2013 by TheSignalEngineer

[The Stationmaster]

But the plan was to eventually run the layout to an earlier time period so the trunking would not really be correct if we do this

Ah, 'Black Country Black' - I like the sound of that

[Sidecar Racer]

 The same will apply to the farside of OG's canal tunnel and I'm sure there's plenty of other bits that can be hidden in due course. Most layouts don't show the back of the signal box or hide the magnificent tunnel entrance deep in a cutting but BCB isn't normal.

 

 Which could be why it works so well .

Edited March 28, 2013 by Sidecar Racer

[coachmann]

The telegraph poles dissapeared as trunking took place along the Chester-Holyhead line. The poles had been a pain to photographers for years anyway, but there were other benefits as well. Trunking meant clearing lots of lineside vegetation. This operation opened up new vistas for lineside photographers, and I did my bit to assist!  Today much of my old patch is overgrown now.

Edited March 28, 2013 by coachmann

[Siberian Snooper]

Here's a couple of piccy's I took at the Ally Pally.

 

 

 

 

These are just to whet your appetite, I'm off to toy train club

 

Cheers SS

[Worsdell forever]

Cracking shot of Tina, thanks SS.

[Timara]

One or two more....

 

 

 

 

I wasn't originally going to post this last one, as I mentioned in a previous post (page 22), but it is a record of what was a one-off, so I guess it's worth it....

 

[Jason T]

Paul, on John's camera are a few more shots of Tina but as I took them, they are probably a bit blurry to say the least!

[emt_911]

Tim

 

It would have been criminal to have left that last photo out. Simply stunning.    

 

Duncan

[James]

A little bout of silliness.... Some plotting (surely not?) went on between myself and Jason (Sandside) on the train back to Kings Cross yesterday that a 60 would be worth giving a spin on something freight-related. I'd have preferred the tanks, but Nigel suggested the clays instead.

 

There's a clearer shot of Flavio's building to come later. (it does look utterly superb btw!)

 

60061_BCB_V0347a.jpg

 

60061_BCB_V0351a.jpg

 

Cheers!

 

Is that the one I weathered?

[Timara]

Is that the one I weathered?

There is only the one! Hard to think it's, what, 6 years ago now? I've had to give the transfers some attention recently when they started trying to lift off. Much like the real things did infact!

[James]

You should have done the transfer properly then! I can only work with the materials provided!

[TheSignalEngineer]

I don't think it will be necessary to go to the extend of this pole at Cheltenham which became disused with Gloucester resignalling

 

Photograph C E Steele

 

More likely to have a couple to feed things away from the main trunking like these

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrwhg633.htm

 

Regarding trunking, this shot at Saltley Junction has some running out from the signal box, also some for track circuit tails at lower level on the right.

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrsalt676.htm

 

You'll also need a yard lamp or two around the sidings points. There are at least 3 types on this shot at Washwood Heath, all fed by wires on the poles.

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/mrwhg630.htm

 

 

[Siberian Snooper]

As promised yesterday here are some more.

 

Not seen much of the 'oss, so here's one, just to prove he's not been turned into burgers

 

 

The best shot I could get of Andy's cottages

 

And another viewed through the canal bridge / tunnel sorry the important bit is not in focus.

 

 

 

 

Well that's all folk's.

 

SS

Edited March 29, 2013 by Siberian Snooper

[Worsdell forever]

I must say the second shot of Andy's cottages is by far the better one... 

 

I was a little worried that 'Oss may have been sold for a good profit, I guess they thought he would be a bit tough.

[coachmann]

I love this layout.....currently my fav with so much character and detail. I guess it also reminds me of Greenfield when looking at the location from the hillside into Chew Valley. It is probably a good job I cannot rebuild my layout to match without rebuilding the shed!

Edited March 29, 2013 by coachmann

[Guest Phil]

I love this layout.....currently my fav with so much character and detail. I guess it also reminds me of Greenfield when looking at the location from the hillside into Chew Valley. It is probably a good job I cannot rebuild my layout to match without rebuilding the shed!

 

The project is fantastic Larry and holds so much promise, and in that I acknowledge the short time the gang have had to put the concept into fruition and display it at two large shows. There is a lot more to do in my opinion - some that shows, and some that still needs doing. Because the project is so near to my own I can look objectively at it and comment, hopefully without causing any offence - something I was going to hold off until seeing it in the flesh. Online and magazine photos and video clips have shown a great deal more and I do feel it worthy of comment.

 

The right hand side of the layout is really good with plenty of urban clutter, some decay and a little "rundownness". This is captured really quite well, although more detail, and cameo detail could improve. I definately think there is scope to show evidence or a runaway mishap at the shunt neck near the bridge. There will almost certainly have been a rough shunt causing a raft of steel to go over the stop block (missing ?) and into the blue brick abutments. A few scattered sleepers and some weathered in rebricking maybe ? The "Steele" S&T cabin and some other buildings presumably will be bonded into the baseboard to eliminate the "just plonked" view.

 

The bit that concerns me though is the left hand end of the layout. Altlhough there was some greenery around in the Black Country in 1975, IMHO there wasn't half as much as there is now - now that a lot of industry has closed down and been landscaped. Industrial premises were quite near to the railhead and I feel that the piece of "rural England" between the exchange sidings and Trafalgar works appears to be greater than it should be. Remember there were hundreds of very small collieries, foundries and metal bashing plants all around, and there wasn't a great deal of undulating countryside without piles of spoil junk and fenced off or walled off property. IMHO there needs to be a little more evidence of past industry on the left hand side of the layout, even if it is a long closed works with a collossally tall brick chimney. Maybe a couple of small spoil heaps where the spoil from the cuttings was dumped.

 

Finally that absolutely beautiful GJR viaduct needs to be absolutely caked in 135 years of grime, soot, algae and anything else you can daub on it. Muxh as it looks really pretty with some very ornate brick and stonework, we are talking about 1975 here.

 

 

Excellent work guys and I really am looking forward to seeing it in the flesh soon.