Fleischmann Steam Locos - Performance?

[nigcuberail]

I have had a liking for German steam ever since dabbling in N gauge back in the 70's (my pride and joy then was a delightful Fleischmann 2-10-0) and seeing some in action in the Moselle valley during holidays.

 

So, as a different rolling stock option for a shunting puzzle I was looking around at second-hand Fleischmann tank locos (nice 0-10-0 would be just the job!)

 

There seem to be a few around on a certain auction site, but a bit of research shows them as having the dreaded pancake type motors

 

Could any RMwebber re-assure me that they don't exhibit the same characteristics as the Lima/Hornby types?

 

Also, I assume they are DCC friendly?

 

Any feedback would be appreciated.

[Allegheny1600]

Hi there,

Firstly the Fleischmann pancake motor is nothing to be dreaded - it's a very good motor, much better made than the UK or Italian version, so no need to worry about that!

Secondly, the only way to tell if it would be DCC compatible is to have a damn good look at the box - it should have the 6 pin decoder socket so it would look a little like this: ****** where each * is actually a white dot in a black square! Beware as some unscrupulous people have been known to switch boxes!

OR, you can always ask the question, if the answer is positive and the loco isn't DCC compatible, you have good cause to get your money back.

A lot of Fleischmann models with the ringfield motor were made well before the advent of DCC so it is something to be aware of that a lot of people will be getting rid of their older non-DCC compatible models on Ebay!

It is possible to convert the older models to DCC but it is much harder than normal, I've been told and I have never tried it myself! I'm speaking H0 here, are you referring to H0 or N?

The German Ebay I find, tends to be very scrupulous so you should have no problems dealling with them in Germany and Google translate or the like is your friend with that! No import duty but neccessarily higher shipping unfortunately.

HTH,

John E.

[nigcuberail]

Firstly,

 

Many thanks for the re-assurance that the Fleischmann motors are OK.

 

Secondly,

 

Apologies for not making it clear that we are talking HO here.

 

 

I am no stranger to DCC so hard wiring decoders does not hold any fears for me if sockets are not present.

Having done several split chassis Bachmann "things" and some WM kits, successfully , Fleischmann should'nt be too much of a challenge.

 

I shall do a bit more homework, and have a look at Ebay.de

[Horsetan]

The Fleischmann ringfield motors are reputed to be very good for their era - so much so, that Hornby is said to have allegedly produced a clone for their own "Silver Seal" ringfields.

 

One thing to note about some of the models Fleischmann produced prior to the mid-1980s: the scale they used wasn't a true 1:87, but variously 1:80, 1:82 and 1:85. This affects some of the older generation of steam outline such as the Br.50 2-10-0 and, I think, the Br.24 2-6-0. I'm not sure if the diesels / electrics were similarly affected. From the mid-80s onwards, they were all true 1:87, so you should be OK with anything produced this century!

[Padishar Creel]

Hallo,

here a link to the manufacturer of Fleischmann motors

 

http://www.faulhaber.com/n426831/n.html

 

Es grüßt Euch

PC

[NGT6 1315]

I do not have any Fleischmann locos at this time, but from what I can tell based on following modelling forums and sites, those locos with ringfield motors are rather good runners indeed. If memory serves, many of Fleischmann's ringfield powered locos have masses inserted into the gaps between the rotor poles, giving them properties of a flywheel for enhanced running abilities. Have a look further down on this page for an illustration: http://www.bahnwahn.de/fleischmanndb218/Modelldetails/modelldetails.html

 

 

One thing to note about some of the models Fleischmann produced prior to the mid-1980s: the scale they used wasn't a true 1:87, but variously 1:80, 1:82 and 1:85. This affects some of the older generation of steam outline such as the Br.50 2-10-0 and, I think, the Br.24 2-6-0. I'm not sure if the diesels / electrics were similarly affected. From the mid-80s onwards, they were all true 1:87, so you should be OK with anything produced this century!

 

I think it did affect some earlier diesels and electrics, but as you pointed out, they eventually went for straight 1:87 in the late 80s.

[nigcuberail]

Thanks for the extra information.

[Northpoint]

I have a BR78 from several years ago which is actually fitted with the NMRA 8 pin DCC socket and it runs absolutely fine.

 

I also recently purchased a BR94 which was shown as "5 pole motor DCC ready" so I was expecting a different motor arrangement but found it had the old style pancake motor and 6 pin socket. However, it runs again absolutley fine. One peculiarity though - I bought an ESU Lok Pilot 6 pin decoder at the same time and found that it didn't run very well at all but since I replaced it with the Bachmann 6 pin decoder it runs fine!

[nigcuberail]

I have taken a bit of a plunge and have bought a 'pre-loved' Roco BR290.

 

Not sure of it's age, but I will try and trace it via http://www.bahn.hfkern.de/Roco/Menue.html

This is built like a tank with a massive motor and runs superbly on DC.

 

Will need to check practicality of chipping it.

 

Also, on their way are a Fleischmann V200 and a V60 to evaluate before I plump for a dampflock or two.

[martin1]

ive a large collection of this stuff,stills runs like new ,smoother slower and more reliable than some more modern stuff !!some of it now over 20 yrs old.

[nigcuberail]

 

I bought an ESU Lok Pilot 6 pin decoder at the same time and found that it didn't run very well at all

 

 

Ahhhhhh!! - just bought two 6 pin Lokpilot Micros that I was going to use in the Fleischmann locos!

 

(Re-think - I will try them in a couple of small British outline loco kits on the production line)

 

 

 

Back on the Fleischman topic, I may be a bit dim with this German produced stuff, but what is the purpose of the sprung stud on the underside?

 

If it is for compatibility with the Marklin stud system, why isn't it in the middle?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Think you will find that is for auto stop at signal type systems.

[nigcuberail]

That needs some clarification me thinks... Originally Fleischmann used these stud-type contacts to operate accessories like signals and points, by using one rail in common with the AC output of the transformer (user needs to connect those, from-factory the connection wasn't present!). Many older Fleischmann loco's have this stud contact, but not all. If it's there, it's connected to one rail and even on DCC still usable for its original purpose, albeit with some modification to the AC circuit: there is none You connect whatever signal or point to the opposite rail, as DCC and AC don't mix!

 

Fascinating!

[FelixM]

The German Ebay I find, tends to be very scrupulous so you should have no problems dealling with them in Germany and Google translate or the like is your friend with that! No import duty but neccessarily higher shipping unfortunately.

HTH,

John E.

 

Please avoid any internet translators. You won't be taken serious if you write those 'sentences' to anyone. Try translating a text from English to German and back and watch the resultat. Many Germans understand at least a little English.

 

One thing to note about some of the models Fleischmann produced prior to the mid-1980s: the scale they used wasn't a true 1:87, but variously 1:80, 1:82 and 1:85. This affects some of the older generation of steam outline such as the Br.50 2-10-0 and, I think, the Br.24 2-6-0. I'm not sure if the diesels / electrics were similarly affected. From the mid-80s onwards, they were all true 1:87, so you should be OK with anything produced this century!

I think it did affect some earlier diesels and electrics, but as you pointed out, they eventually went for straight 1:87 in the late 80s.

 

There still was an oversize diesel loco in their 2008 catalogue, dating back from those years. I can't remember which model exactly but it was a 0-6-0 or 0-8-0 diesel shunter. I think they should be recognizable for their thick handrails.

 

Regards,

Felix

[nigcuberail]

Well, good news from me!

 

The Fleischmann V200 arrived via Ebay and after a small hiccup (one motor brush spring missing!), proved to run very nicely on DC.

So a quick strip down, clean & lube, modified the motor plate (PCB type ), rewired and fitted with a test decoder (Bachmann 3 funct).

 

It responds very well to DCC, although I think a Lenz Standard will be substituted (once I have sorted out LED's to replace the bulbs) as it does NOT like the Bachmann Back EMF at ANY setting other than OFF.

 

So I am really impressed with the German engineering, qualities and weight of these fairly old locomotives.

 

PS A lovely Class 65 2-8-4 Tank has landed on the work bench and that purrs along at all speeds on the DC test track - absolutely fabulous!

 

I have a feeling this angle to my hobby is going to cost me...........................................................

[Horsetan]

.....PS A lovely Class 65 2-8-4 Tank has landed on the work bench and that purrs along at all speeds on the DC test track - absolutely fabulous!

 

DB or DR? I'm jealous already.

[Allegheny1600]

Half right, D_M!

The postwar DR developed their class 65 2-8-4T as the BR65.10 - lovely (& expensive!) models are built by Gutzold and Brawa!

Sorry to be pedantic!

Cheers,

John E.

[Bernard Lamb]

John, I'll take your word for it, as I have no interest in the DR

 

A pity as they built some superb steam locos at a time when many countries were scrapping theirs.

The DR version of the BR65 has to be just about the ultimate in suburban tank design.

Unfortunately I never had the opportuniy to ride behind one due to their very limited geographical location.

The model version will pull just about anything you care to put behind it.

Bernard

[andyman7]

The Fleischmann ringfield motors are reputed to be very good for their era - so much so, that Hornby is said to have allegedly produced a clone for their own "Silver Seal" ringfields.

 

One thing to note about some of the models Fleischmann produced prior to the mid-1980s: the scale they used wasn't a true 1:87, but variously 1:80, 1:82 and 1:85. This affects some of the older generation of steam outline such as the Br.50 2-10-0 and, I think, the Br.24 2-6-0. I'm not sure if the diesels / electrics were similarly affected. From the mid-80s onwards, they were all true 1:87, so you should be OK with anything produced this century!

 

Can I second this. The modern rubbishing of 'pancake' motors has eclipsed the fact that when first introduced in the 1960s they were seen as a dramatic advance on the open frame motor. Back then they were called 'Ringfield' motors. The first generation Triang-Hornby Ringfield (as used in the original 'Evening Star') was a clone of the Fleischmann one, and I believe that one of the reasons it was replaced in 1977 was due to copyright issues. The Lima motor was made of cheap components and a LOT of plastic - you just have to look at the engineering of the Fleischmann version to see that it is a different beast.

 

For those of us who still own and run 'vintage' stuff the beauty of these generation motors is their overall reliability and controllability coupled with incredibly easy servicability (this is the one failing with the current generation of Buhler and similar motors which either work perfectly or not, and if they don't you basically just chuck it and replace it).

 

PS, if by V200 you mean the Fleischmann Class 221, that is, I believe, to about 1.82 scale. Lovely model, though...

[nigcuberail]

 

.................plastic - you just have to look at the engineering of the Fleischmann version to see that it is a different beast.

 

For those of us who still own and run 'vintage' stuff the beauty of these generation motors is their overall reliability and controllability coupled with incredibly easy servicability (this is the one failing with the current generation of Buhler and similar motors which either work perfectly or not, and if they don't you basically just chuck it and replace it).

 

 

Having now got completely carried away and collected quite a lot of Fleischmann steam locomotives of varying ages, I am stunned by the quality of engineering, running & detail.

 

Although running 00 gauge using DCC and having "chipped" a couple of HO models, I armed myself with some decent DC control and all the Fleischmann locos run superbly, even diminutive 0-6-0's!

 

When I now look at some of my Hornby & Bachmann small tank engines they seem positively basic by comparison.

 

 

PS, if by V200 you mean the Fleischmann Class 221, that is, I believe, to about 1.82 scale. Lovely model, though...

 

 

Yes the Fleischmann V200 or BR221 is fine, just too BIG.

I have fitted a Lenz Std and some warm white LED's to replace the bulbs, and it performs beautifully.

 

The Fleischmann V60 or BR260 also seems to be to the same scale.

[Lachlan]

I have a 4-6-2 BR03(Catalogue no 74103) which runs superbly and comes fitted with Loksound decoder.Ran out of the box with roco multimaus