RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted June 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2012 Yesterday I was fortunate enough to be able to turn a business trip into a photo opportunity, travelling from Clitheroe to Blackpool North via Blackburn. Much of the route was new to me and I found it very interesting. Unfortunately, later in the day I was shooting pictures at Blackpool North before catching a train back to Preston and was accosted by a member of staff. He informed me, in a clearly offended tone, that if I wanted to continue to take pictures I needed to sign in. I asked why and he said "it's the rule here". I therefore spoke to the female supervisor who confirmed the requirement, one reason being in case of fire and the need to evacuate the station. Given the number of passengers passing through this struck me as odd, but I didn't push it as I'd finished shooting anyway. I will, however, be following the matter up with Northern's HQ. So, if you want to take pictures at Blackpool North you are able to do so, but you will be expected to sign in. You have been warned! A few pictures to follow once I've finished downloading and sorting them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I wonder which station Duchess of Sutherland will be using on Saturday. It could be fun if everybody is required to 'sign in'! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted June 14, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2012 It would have to be North, I think, as I'm told that South is much more basic. I glimpsed the Duchess while passing Crewe in the Pendolino back to London yesterday around 17:40. She appeared to be in steam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Blackpool South is just the end of a long siding with a bus shelter on a short platform, and as for Blackpool Central... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 as for Blackpool Central... That station is dead, it is no more, it has ceased to function, it is deceased, it no longer exists etc. etc. etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandg Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 We're not surprised to read this. Back in October 2005, having arrived in Blackpool on a coach tour (for the illuminations), we wanted to photograph 45407 arriving on a special from Manchester and were told that they would only allow us onto the station when the train had arrived! We eventually found somewhere to view the arrival, possibly in the staff car park. Going back even further to June 1991 in the days when there were several locomotive hauled trains running each day from London, Liverpool and Manchester there were still platform access problems! D & G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 It makes you wonder what they have to hide ... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I remember way back when the present platforms were still the excursion platforms of Central station. Even then the platform gates were kept closed until loading. I think its more a tradition; possibly started with heavy excursion traffic, and getting the passengers onto the right trains, also perhaps regulated ticket checks too? As an aside, if ever you go photting in the car parks on the south / RH side of the station, BEWARE! The Apollo end is ok, but the Bingo end (better for pics) is a trap for the unwary. Someone regularly spreads dog excrement along the top of the fence, right where you need to hold on! Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 If RMweb had existed 50 years ago folk would be asking why they were required to buy a 1d platform ticket. Is it really so hard to sign in? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2012 If RMweb had existed 50 years ago folk would be asking why they were required to buy a 1d platform ticket. Is it really so hard to sign in? But back then you could get pics of L&Y four coupled tank engines which had become stationary boilers at Blackpool Central. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2012 Blackpool North had an enthusiast unfriendly attitude for a long time, the excuse given to my son was "because we have a lot of trains departing from here" - bizarre. I've never been able to establish why the attitude exists but exist it does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterbournecm Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 The whole permission thing is perhaps over-zealous staff missing the point of what our purpose is. Its amazing how someone "going against the flow" of what everyone else is doing is noticeable these days. CCTV cameras, and staff with little concept of anyone doing anything at a station other than boarding a train can catch your eye. I have seen people march past my platform end signalbox without a nod - some are taking photos - some are foreign and lost. It's just handy to have that person on your radar. I have noticed recently that even sussing out photography sites in rural areas brings out locals eyeing you suspiciously. I always try to introduce myself and my purpose first - it really does break the ice and puts people at ease. A friend of mine spent two hours stood on steps in the Bristol area waiting for a freight, and two police officers approached him with a complaint that he may have been spying on a nearby nursery playground! Bizarre but I guess understandable. They were fine when they knew the reason for him being there. Perhaps enthusiasts are becoming such a rare breed these days. I agree with the freedom of taking photos etc, and I'm just playing devils advocate from others viewpoint. I encourage enthuisiasts - they are a second pair of eyes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted June 14, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2012 Is it really so hard to sign in? If it means they're happy and I get my pictures, I'll sign in. My objection Larry is that I have been involved in transport security policy for some years now and much of the fuss made by TOCs and their staff is smoke and mirrors for all the good it does. I won't bore you with all my anecdotes from recent years, but the problem in many cases is that staff fixate on the wrong things. I had PTS awareness training on a heritage railway and I always keep a good lookoout, including the observation of signals where appropriate. When I'm out on the rail or underground networks I make a point of doing visual sweeps in between shooting, looking for anything out of place. I understand what is normal in the railway environment; how many TOC staff know the railway that well? The lad that accosted me yesterday was around 20 and it clearly bugged him that I was confident and at home in "his" environment. As Craig says above, there's lots of CCTV these days and I certainly don't act surreptitiously when I'm out and about, but I do respect boundaries (physical and metaphorical). It's somewhat ironic that I expect to visiting BTP HQ in the next 3-4 months. Perhaps I'll be recognised from all the CCTV footage being monitored there now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Make no mistake jobworths have always been around. I mentioned signing in for the reason that it keeps "them" happy and you get your shots Trevellan. From what I have heard from friends still doing the photography bit, things have changed a lot since I dropped out of being a correspondent. Culturing friendships wherever possible maybe isn't nearly so easy today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted June 14, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2012 Anyway, ignoring the silliness for a moment, here's the start of a few examples I shot yesterday. The first one was a very pleasant surprise, caught while changing trains at Blackburn: The next one was after arrival at Blackpool North. The fitter had clearly been called out to look at something on the 158. What struck me as funny was that the neat leather toolbag had the end of a large ballpein hammer sticking out the top. Presumably, if all else failed... I'll try to get a couple more up tonight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Blackpool North had an enthusiast unfriendly attitude for a long time, the excuse given to my son was "because we have a lot of trains departing from here" - bizarre. I've never been able to establish why the attitude exists but exist it does. It was like that back in the 80's too... the staff were very anti-rail enthusiast. I got a right telling off for taking this: The station staff would never let you onto the platform until about 5mins before departure, it was such a mad scramble if it was a full train (as many of the Summer Saturday trains were). But on the up side it gave you time for a quick fish'n'chip move Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted June 14, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2012 Strange that. maybe it's something about local culture rather than corporate culture. But to last 30+ years? Still, I got what I wanted, so they didn't spoil my day. I thought this one might appeal to Mr Skipsey, among others: I'd like someone at Northern to explain how my shooting a scene like this is anything other than respecting the railway and celebrating its role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugsley Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I'd like someone at Northern to explain how my shooting a scene like this is anything other than respecting the railway and celebrating its role. Indeed. Unfortunately you just have to remember that there are w**kers everywhere these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2012 Anyway, ignoring the silliness for a moment, here's the start of a few examples I shot yesterday. The first one was a very pleasant surprise, caught while changing trains at Blackburn: Ah - 31190 - working a Warrington-Hellifield route learner in preparation for relaying the down line north of Clitheroe. Not a surprise after 3 weeks of the d*mn thing....... I'd have waved from my house if I knew you were coming Blackpool North has always been a pain due to the barriers. Other stations in the area operated by Northern are no problem - Blackburn for example. Although Salford Crescent is a no-go, they cite the narrow platforms as a "hazard". On the other hand, Preston is a Virgin managed station and seems to be open access at all times - I've never been challenged there Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Yesterday I was fortunate enough to be able to turn a business trip into a photo opportunity, travelling from Clitheroe to Blackpool North via Blackburn. Much of the route was new to me and I found it very interesting. Unfortunately, later in the day I was shooting pictures at Blackpool North before catching a train back to Preston and was accosted by a member of staff. He informed me, in a clearly offended tone, that if I wanted to continue to take pictures I needed to sign in. I asked why and he said "it's the rule here". I therefore spoke to the female supervisor who confirmed the requirement, one reason being in case of fire and the need to evacuate the station. Given the number of passengers passing through this struck me as odd, but I didn't push it as I'd finished shooting anyway. I will, however, be following the matter up with Northern's HQ. So, if you want to take pictures at Blackpool North you are able to do so, but you will be expected to sign in. You have been warned! A few pictures to follow once I've finished downloading and sorting them. The best way of dealing with people like this is to ask them who they are what is the role. Quite often they refuse in which case they have then lost the upper hand - Quote ATOC rules to them - they cannot phyiscally touch you - as that is assualt and if they do a citizens arrest they are big trouble wrongful arrest. XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Trevellan Posted June 14, 2012 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 14, 2012 Ah - 31190 - working a Warrington-Hellifield route learner in preparation for relaying the down line north of Clitheroe. Not a surprise after 3 weeks of the d*mn thing....... Ah, so that's what it was doing there. Thanks for that Mick. I'd have waved from my house if I knew you were coming Thanks! It would have prepared me for all of the zombies and assorted nutters I kept falling over later in Blackpool town centre . The new trams are quite nice though. Blackpool North has always been a pain due to the barriers. Other stations in the area operated by Northern are no problem - Blackburn for example. Although Salford Crescent is a no-go, they cite the narrow platforms as a "hazard". On the other hand, Preston is a Virgin managed station and seems to be open access at all times - I've never been challenged there. I do regular business trips to Preston these days and have never had any problems there, including shooting in plain sight of BTP officers. Blackpool North was certainly an oddity. The customer service aspect seemed wafer thin, with an underlying bolshiness. Their operation of movable barriers seemed to suggest they like to keep people penned up in the main building until close to departure time. Perhaps that's because of the zombies... The best way of dealing with people like this is to ask them who they are what is the role. I stand my ground, politely and firmly, with a number of options available if they try to escalate. At Blackpool North they did not seem to object to the photography, just that I hadn't signed in. I have my own theories as to why these things happen, but it would be unfair to generalise. As I said earlier, I got the shots I wanted so I'm content. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devonseasider Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 But back then you could get pics of L&Y four coupled tank engines which had become stationary boilers at Blackpool Central. There was also one at North (strictly speaking it was an 0-2-4T as it had lost its rear drivers) although it didn't last as long as its siblings at Central. I grew up in Blackpool in the 50s & 60s and at North there was a clear demarcation between the "real" station and the "Excursion platforms" (today's station), even in those days. As far as a young trainspotter was concerned, life at the former - handling the "everyday traffic" - was very laid back & friendly whereas the latter was a bit of a no-go area (and often crawling with police). I always imagined that was because of the number of passengers being dealt with - it really was manic back then. Staff must have had a dreadful time trying to get people on the correct trains back home after their holidays, made even worse, of course, by the fact that a goodly number of them were completely out of their brains! Don't forget, the return excursions were afternoon/evening trains, by which time the pubs had been open for a long time . . . . The last thing the staff needed was a crowd of trainspotters/photographers getting in the way! Haven't been back "home" for a while now, but it sounds as though nothing has changed. As an aside, at least 2 of the L&Y tanks were still extant (sort of!) as late as August 1967. I came across this pair unexpectedly at Newton Heath. The only identifying marks I could find were the chalked numbers 903 & 925 - don't know if they were the original L&Y numbers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Blackpool North has always been a pain due to the barriers. Blackpool did not have the monopoly on this either. I remember Skegness being a right royal P.I.T.A too. Here's another telling off in the making.... But it was worth it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 I got a right telling off for taking this: Lol I should think so too. It's too head on.... What a shame at least one of the Barton Wright 0-4-4Ts wasn't preserved in only as a static exhibit. They weren't a landmark design but as they had never run under the LMS, boy what a curiousity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 15, 2012 The best way of dealing with people like this is to ask them who they are what is the role. Quite often they refuse in which case they have then lost the upper hand - Quote ATOC rules to them - they cannot phyiscally touch you - as that is assualt and if they do a citizens arrest they are big trouble wrongful arrest. XF If a member of railway staff challenges you - whether you be in the right or the wrong - the ByeLaws require that they identify themselves to you by name (and ideally position). Equally if challenged you are perfectly entitled to ask their name & position and they must reply giving that information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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