BWsTrains Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 The Hornby 10ft Deans appear on eBay from time to time. I have just bought 11 of them for £11 recently.(not sure what to do with the 11th???) dean bogies.JPG I use them on kit builds and they look fine when storming around the train set at 60mph behind a Saint. e73 Hornby bOG.jpg Mike Wiltshire Mike, I noted in this post your Clerestory has post 1934 logo and dark roof while Coach to left is white. Only reference i can find suggests many GWR coaches of all types had white roofs but were darkened during WWII. My Hornby Clerestorys R484 and R488 HAVE pristine white Roofs (to be weathered) and as far as I can tell belong around 1928 given their logos and lining, is their roof colour correct for a 1920-1930s setting? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted June 13, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2017 The white rooves soon deteriorated to grey and over time almost black. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 The mainline clerestories had the two tone white/brown as per the Hornby. However, as Siberian states they became all over black with a hint of grey very quickly. The full lining had ceased by the late twenties being simple, brown/cream without any waist lining. This was altered to a single black line and then the second gold line being added, by approx 1930. I have a mix of brown/white roof clerestories and some off black ones, usually because I have made a mess of the brown/white border and given up. I often spray a mix of white first, then a quick blow over of grey followed by a blow over of black to give an in service look. I am heavier on the black with clerestories as photo evidence shows they appeared to be cleaned less often than steel sided stock. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Clerestory 6809mail.jpg Mike Wiltshire What diagram is that coach? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 GWR roofs were white up to about 1942, when they became grey (allegedly to make them less visible in air raids). Obviously they quickly darkened in use (as did everything else at the time!) Clerestory lights were painted over from the middle of WW I, but in any case they darkened like the rest of the roof as can be seen in the above photo. This appears to be a downgraded tri-composite with central guard's compartment, almost certainly pre-1890 as it has a twin arc roof. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 What diagram is that coach? E14 if I remember correctly Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastglosmog Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 GWR roofs were white up to about 1942, when they became grey (allegedly to make them less visible in air raids). Obviously they quickly darkened in use (as did everything else at the time!) Clerestory lights were painted over from the middle of WW I, but in any case they darkened like the rest of the roof as can be seen in the above photo. This appears to be a downgraded tri-composite with central guard's compartment, almost certainly pre-1890 as it has a twin arc roof. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe GWR coach roofs started to be painted grey several years earlier than 1942, before the 1942 livery change. There are official pictures of Lot 1621 and Lot 1626 coaches in Russel's GWR Coaches V2 (which Harris says were built in early - mid 1940) which are definitely grey. Also, the Tamar Bridge was painted grey in April 1938 at the "request" of the Air Raid Precaution authorities. I doubt they would have allowed coaches with white painted roofs to be trundling around after the outbreak of war. Even the mighty GWR would have to have bowed to their wishes! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Do the bogies on these Hornby long clerestory coaches just pull out to remove them ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BWsTrains Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Do the bogies on these Hornby long clerestory coaches just pull out to remove them ? Hi. "Just" is the operative word here. They do "in principle" but depending on which Hornby you have, the lower the R number the older they are. The plastic was not highly flexible on the old pre 2000 ones I bought (see post #51 above for details) and one lug snapped clean off in the process. A pair of long very fine pliers will allow you to compress the two sides of the mounting shaft and remove it cleanly, hopefully without damage + likewise to reinsert. As I was doing the removal just to add weights for better running, I ended up instead gluing flat weights under the bogies but them I'm not a purist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted December 23, 2017 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Thanks for that information. I will have a bit of a think before I do anything. I want to remove the bogies then the couplers by drilling out the coupling rivets : I intend to install Kadees on the coach bogies if I can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 I am not having any luck removing the bogies ; they may just need that bit of extra effort which I am reluctant to give. How about going in through the roof : how does the roof come off on these coaches ? I am hoping it is not glued on ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted December 25, 2017 Share Posted December 25, 2017 I am not having any luck removing the bogies ; they may just need that bit of extra effort which I am reluctant to give. How about going in through the roof : how does the roof come off on these coaches ? I am hoping it is not glued on ! Roof and body are one piece. Turn the coach upside down.Squeeze the two clips together at either end and pull the chassis and glazing away from the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Roof and body are one piece. Turn the coach upside down.Squeeze the two clips together at either end and pull the chassis and glazing away from the body. Lofty : the two clips at either end are mostly concealed by the bogies so that makes it a bit awkward to get at them properley. What did you use to squeeze the two clips together ? I have a pair of bent nose tweezers which gets me access but they keep slipping off. Also , what are the four clips in the middle...are they involved in any way ? There are two on each side. NOTE : I have an idea for making a tool to slide between the bogie and the coach : just a flat piece of metal with a slot in it. That should enable me to exert more force without breaking something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 I'm not 100% sure, but I believe GWR coach roofs started to be painted grey several years earlier than 1942, before the 1942 livery change. There are official pictures of Lot 1621 and Lot 1626 coaches in Russel's GWR Coaches V2 (which Harris says were built in early - mid 1940) which are definitely grey. Also, the Tamar Bridge was painted grey in April 1938 at the "request" of the Air Raid Precaution authorities. I doubt they would have allowed coaches with white painted roofs to be trundling around after the outbreak of war. Even the mighty GWR would have to have bowed to their wishes! All the railway companies started applying ARP recommendations during 1938, initially quite slowly until the Munich Crisis suddenly concentrated minds. The white roofs went near black as the result of a chemical reaction between the white lead paint and hydrogen sulphide in the atmosphere (most prevelant near gasworks - and marshland - the reaction actually being speeded up by acidic rainfall) - lead sulphide being jet black. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastglosmog Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Whilst all GWR white lead painted roofs turned grey with time, the point is that they were painted grey, not white, in wartime although they subsequently got darker. PS Lead Sulfide is lead grey, not black, although it can appear black in fine powder form. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Lofty : the two clips at either end are mostly concealed by the bogies so that makes it a bit awkward to get at them properley. What did you use to squeeze the two clips together ? I have a pair of bent nose tweezers which gets me access but they keep slipping off. Also , what are the four clips in the middle...are they involved in any way ? There are two on each side. NOTE : I have an idea for making a tool to slide between the bogie and the coach : just a flat piece of metal with a slot in it. That should enable me to exert more force without breaking something. I use thin nosed pliers from Xuron. Whilst squeezing the end clips together gently pull/bend the chassis away from the body....dont worry its quite flexible. You only have to bend it til the clips pop inside of their slot. The centre plastic clips are the glazing to chassis clips. The glazing may be glued to main coach body so using a small bladed flat screw driver carefully ease the clips out doing one side at a time.Be warned they are usually brittle and break but you can refix the head with poly cement once its all apart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lofty1966 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 If you are struggling you should be able to turn the bogies 90° to gain access to the end clips. The pic is a Railroad Collett but almost identical design Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I finally managed to get the bogies off : The coach was inverted in a foam cradle. Two pairs of sharp nose tweezers inserted either side between the bogie and the coach floor. Then gentle pressure to lever the bogie from both sides at once and it comes off easily. Now to drill out the rivet holding the tension lock coupler in place on the bogie so I can work out which Kadee to fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
88D Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Thanks for that information. I will have a bit of a think before I do anything. I want to remove the bogies then the couplers by drilling out the coupling rivets : I intend to install Kadees on the coach bogies if I can.be careful drilling out those rivets:you could attract the rivet counters of this parish. Happy new year! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 I am still thinking about how to attach Kadees to these bogies. Wagons are much easier ! In case I stuff things up, do Hornby make spare/replacement bogies for these coaches ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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