Grantham - the Streamliner years

[LNER4479]

Here are some pix of Grantham's new home to give you some idea!

 

The structure to the left (below) was a paint spray booth the previous owner put up. This will be removed. Behind this is a 6ft by 8ft 'office', which forms the 'de-compressurisation' chamber between the house and the chapel. This will be retained. You can see the sunlight coming in through the windows which are south facing, so good natural lighting. All other windows have been blocked up.

Edited October 1, 2012 by LNER4479

[roger440]

What an awesome space. I like you idea of home buying

[Markeg]

Nice space for a model railway.

 

Well done to you and your wife for allowing such a thing to happen.

 

I have read a couple of Railway Modeller adds which state a railway room with house attached to my wife, fortunately they are in the UK. Any way I have a 8m square (26'sq apx) shed, but half is for all the tools and workbench. The model takes up 20' x 8', but will have a removeable branch line built which take up 1.5m(5') by 3.6m (12')

 

Mark

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I hope your new layout room is reasonably close to Leicester, so I can help you set up Grantham and then play with it

 

ahem.

[Andrew P]

Hi LNER 4479, Now that is what you call a Railway Room, I am just in the process of trying to move house so now I know what to aim for, Brilliant, well done, Andy.

[Jack P]

No fair!

[Joseph_Pestell]

Enough space there for a mezzanine floor - and another mega layout!

[61070]

... I believe that in BR days a crossover existed (behind the camera man) such that the loco could draw forward (probably under the control of the shunt signal at the bottom of the post) into the carriage sidings then set back over the crossover to gain the line alongside as the route back to the shed. In which case then yes that would make the adjacent ground signal applicable to that line (for the move in the reverse direction).

 

However, in my pre-war era, I don’t believe that crossover existed – it is certainly not there in the 1900’s track layout in the ‘Grantham and Railways’ book – so the operational arrangements on my layout will be different. Somewhat to my surprise, the 1930’s timetable shows the Nottingham services to have been quite intense, essentially an hourly service. This would point to platform 5 being quite intensively used; perhaps a fresh loco from the shed simply backed onto the stock to form the return service and the incoming loco then made its way to shed directly afterwards? That would certainly be a simple way of operating the layout at an exhibition.

 

Here's a photo I've found of said crossover in 1957: http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p748395313/h3327df79#h3327df79

John

[LNER4479]

Wow John - that picture is a revelation!

 

Not only does it show the crossover that I suspected existed, but the single slip in the immediate foreground offers additional operating potential as well. I think this (the single slip) now explains the presence of the ground signal in your earlier picture of the L1. Clearing the ground signal would permit a loco (or train) to depart from the siding alongside platform 5 southbound out onto the mainline; that certainly makes more sense.

 

I'll 'sit tight' for now with my trackplan as is, but there would certainly be nothing to stop me modifying it in this area if it was beneficial to do so.

 

Funny isn't it how just pointing the camera in a different direction can show so much?!

 

'Robert'

[ROY@34F]

John(1070),I am quite chuffed with that photo too (of 67352). I had my first fireing job on that engine on "coach shunt" as it was known. The trackwork looks familiar too,'though I could'nt picture it in previous discusions to the point that I could have settled the query .

Sorry to butt in on your thread Robert.Keep up the good work on this wonderful model of Grantham.

[61070]

How gratifying it is to have found a photo that's of value to you both. I came across the Rail Photoprints website just the other day, and I plugged 'Grantham' into the search box (as I usually do) to see what came up. All except this one were pretty much regular Grantham fare, though I should say that I can never see too much of that.

 

Of course the main question for you, Robert, is how much of that arrangement existed in the mid/late 1930s. I can't help there. One observation though. The more distant crossover would be redundant if the nearer arrangement were to be a double slip. Might this infer that the layout could have developed in two or more stages, each stage incorporating additional options dictated by changing operational needs?

 

Roy - I wonder whether the man beside the first coach is passenger shunter Gilbert Needham? Gilbert appears in several of my Dad's pictures and he was recognised from them by several people who I've met at Grantham. He typically wore his hat right back on his head. If you knew Gilbert what do you think? I'll drop a note to the Rail Photoprints website, pointing them to this page so they can see how useful their images are, and asking if we can see an enlargement of that detail. Hope you are keeping well.

[LNER4479]

Sorry to butt in on your thread Robert.Keep up the good work on this wonderful model of Grantham.

 

Roy (and others),

 

Please don't for one moment apologise for highjacking the thread for a moment or two. Absolutely no problem at all, especially if it helps add the details (as well as keeping in touch, which is what it's all about).

 

Work on the layout itself is temporarily suspended at the moment anyway, whilst I prepare its new home so its a good time to spend on a bit of research. Have now booked the van to transport Grantham to the new place second week in November so really looking forward to having it all set up again and this time for prolonged periods, so we should be back to plenty of modelling pictures thereafter!

 

'Robert'

Edited October 18, 2012 by LNER4479

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Looking forward to seeing some new pictures and any developments on Grantham.

[ROY@34F]

Thanks for your kind comments gents.I am keeping quite well,thankyou John.I have had another look at the 7352 photo;could do with a closer view,as you say.It does look very much like the stance of Gilbert,I do remember him well.

I've noticed to the right of the engine,just behind the white faced buffers,one of the windows in the time office (loco.dept),a wooden building,quite long as it also accomadated small offices for the c.m.e.(Frank Lawrence at that time),and one or two others including the roster clerk,as well as the running shed shift foremen,one "inside-in the chair",as he was known,and one supposed to be running things outside.There was also a signing on time clerk and time office runner.All the links,rosters and daily/weekly roster aterations were posted in there as well as daily notices of temp.line works/speed restrictions etc..Really the hub of activity for the day to day running of the depot.

You can also just see the end of the breakdown train coach on the same track of the buffer stops.The breakdown crane/train was stabled just there (at that time,at least)

I thought this may be of interest,especially to Robert if he has room for such things in his model.

Regards,Roy.

[LNER4479]

I've noticed to the right of the engine,just behind the white faced buffers,one of the windows in the time office (loco.dept),a wooden building,quite long as it also accomadated small offices for the c.m.e.

 

Thanks Roy,

 

Would I be right in saying that these buildings (which I have seen in at least one other of your pictures) were the remnants of the 'old' locomotive shed that stood on the site? As I am in the pre-war era, I shall be representing this shed building (albeit only as a two-road structure). I haven't researched it in detail yet, but I wonder if these offices were inside the main shed building or built-on externally outside the main shed? If you can shed (groan!) any light on this then that would be great.

[ROY@34F]

Robert,

I have looked again at the photo of '7352 which John posted.It appears a lot bigger now by the way,I'm sure,if you click on it.

If I understand you correctly...the old shed,as I knew it,is just out of picture to the right of the breakdown train,which you can just see the end of as I said in my last post.

At the back of the old shed (ie. the south end),and attached to it,was the fitters shop and the general office/shedmasters office,all in the same brickwork. The two offices were quite small really ,considering their importance.There are odd glimpses I'm sure of this area in some photos in John's "Returning to Grantham" thread on the LNER website.

Above the time office's roof (which I refered to) appears another higher roof,which I thought at first was the front of the "new shed",but I think now it is the roof of the boilersmith's shop,a brick building,quite high and standing on slightly higher ground,which also accomadated the firelighter and boilerwashers in small messrooms at the rear.Whether that building existed in the '30s.I don't know;I rather think it may have,with the brickwork and age of it,as far as I can remember.

By the way.I've just thought,there is a good photo or two of the general/shedmasters office,taken from the old coaling stage area,in the early '60s ; I'm sure it's in Colin Walkers book "Eastern Region Sream Twilight",can't remember part 1 or 2 ,but I think it's the one "south of Grantham". Hope this is of some help.

Regards , Roy .

[61070]

I've added the appropriate photos showing the glmpses - and they are that - of the shed offices and workshops referred to by Roy in his two most recent posts:

 

I've noticed to the right of the engine, just behind the white faced buffers, one of the windows in the time office (loco. dept), a wooden building, quite long as it also accommodated small offices for the c.m.e.(Frank Lawrence at that time), and one or two others including the roster clerk, as well as the running shed shift foremen, one "inside-in the chair",as he was known, and one supposed to be running things outside. There was also a signing on time clerk and time office runner. All the links, rosters and daily/weekly roster aterations were posted in there as well as daily notices of temp.line works/speed restrictions etc. Really the hub of activity for the day to day running of the depot.

 

 

At the back of the old shed (ie. the south end), and attached to it, was the fitters' shop and the general office/shedmaster's office, all in the same brickwork. The two offices were quite small really, considering their importance. There are odd glimpses I'm sure of this area in some photos in John's "Returning to Grantham" thread on the LNER website. [photo shows the back wall of the 'old shed' - the rest of the structure had been demolished]

 

 

Above the time office's roof (which I refered to) appears another, higher roof, which I thought at first was the front of the "new shed", but I think now it is the roof of the boilersmith's shop, a brick building, quite high and standing on slightly higher ground, which also accommodated the firelighter and boilerwashers in small messrooms at the rear. Whether that building existed in the '30s. I don't know; I rather think it may have, with the brickwork and age of it, as far as I can remember.

 

 

Your descriptions are so clear and detailed, Roy, that I can imagine myself there! Perhaps Robert can be encouraged to include this area in his model.

John

Edited October 20, 2012 by 61070

[ROY@34F]

John, that's brilliant and what you're so good at ; sorting photos and info out for us.

The last photo shows the back of the time office building,behind which is the higher boilersmiths shop, . The A3 is passing along the goods road,possibly , but i'm not too certain about that . I'm a little vague about all the roads in the picture ..it's a long time ago !!

I must confess I'm not too sure now ..when I said the shift firelighter and the boilerwashers "lived" at the back of the boilersmiths shop,I now think their home was at the back of the time office building ; I can just see Johnny Gale (a firelighter) coming out his cabin at that back door!!! (just dreaming)

The middle photo ;yes you're dead right again John ;the shed walls have been demolished,and the roof you see is over the ftters shop.

Sorry if I'm repeating what you've already said .

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Glorious photographs. Personally I get bored very quickly of endless front 3/4 views of locomotives, and much prefer these atmospheric vignettes. There was so much more texture to the railways than the fixation on locos would suggest.

 

I'm wondering how 112 came to have one distinctly shiny piece of boiler... replacement cladding perhaps? Seems unlikely anyone would have cleaned her like that.

 

Getting withdrawal symptoms now - need more shots of the 4mm Grantham

[61070]

I'm wondering how 112 came to have one distinctly shiny piece of boiler... replacement cladding perhaps? Seems unlikely anyone would have cleaned her like that.

 

The photo of 60112 was taken on 19th September 1963. A few weeks before that St Simon had been given a somewhat hurried repaint to prepare it for hauling a Waterloo-Weymouth excursion on 25th August:

http://mikemorant.sm...dPJVmr&lb=1&s=L and the 'Great Shot!' centrefold (pages 34-35) in the September 2012 edition of Steam World.

Though it still carries a 34F shedplate, Grantham shed had closed 2 weeks before the photo posted above was taken. I have generally assumed that someone had made a start at maintaining the loco in clean condition soon after it returned from its travels on the SR, but had run out of time - or manpower - to do so. Note that the white paint on the buffers is still evident. I expect this was the last A3 to be repainted while in BR service.

Edited October 22, 2012 by 61070

[LNER4479]

I've added the appropriate photos showing the glmpses - and they are that - of the shed offices and workshops referred to by Roy in his two most recent posts:

 

Thanks ever so much John for taking the trouble to post these photos for me. I had already downloaded the first two from the LNER Forum website but these look to be higher resolution images to me? Whatever, they are far more than glimpses for me as they reveal a wealth of detail which can all potentially be included in the model. The wall of the old shed building can clearly be seen in the view showing the fitters' shop/general office/shedmaster's office so that's a 'must' and a relatively straightforward build on to the rear the the shed building. The details of the roof are also very clear as well which is a great help when modelling.

 

The other, wooden set of buildings (which look to be set back a short distance from the old shed building) may be a bit of a challenge, as the dead end roads from the good yard are planned to come next on my model; however, I agree that the time ofiice/roster clerks area was the 'beating heart' of any depot so I think I'll now squeeze it in somehow at the expense of a wagon length or two in the goods yard (I wonder how many times an errant wagon from the goods yard came bouncing through the buffer stops and into these buildings? Maybe explains why they were built out of wood!)

 

Getting withdrawal symptoms now - need more shots of the 4mm Grantham

 

Hang in there Dr G-F; I'm getting withdrawal symptoms myself from not having the layout set up to work on just at the moment. All being well, we'll be 'back in business' in a few weeks time.

 

In the meantime, all I have left are increasingly crummy photos from previously, like that below:

 

At least it shows the area under discussion. The white card template shows where the 'Old' shed will be positioned. To the right of this, lengths of Peco track represent where the goods yard roads might end. I've already decided to 'lose' one of these, as there was a roadway between the roads (as was typical, for loading purposes). So if I shortened the two bottom ones then I think I would create the space needed for these buildings. Sorted!

Edited October 22, 2012 by LNER4479

[Jack P]

Oh dear. You're not doing alot to ease my soft spot for the LNER, and all those teaks....

[LNER4479]

Hello All,

 

Not much modelling at the moment but work has continued steadily in preparing Grantham’s new home, so hope the following is of interest nonetheless:

 

The former paint spray booth has been removed (its remains can be seen on the right – but that floor is in a bit of state. Time for wonder woman…

 

My good lady wields an industrial steam cleaner (she wrenched it out of my hands – honest!). Not only did it shift the oil stains but we gave the walls a good wash down too. There was over 20 years worth of car maintenance dirt and dust in there – not the most kindly of environments for a model railway I think you’d agree!

 

That’s better The whole place feels cleaner and fresher. The white patch lower right is an infill where the former car jack once stood(!) The longer term plan is to put down some recycled carpet for a more ‘homely’ environment but, for now, it’s as ready as it needs to be so…

 

The van is booked for next weekend to bring the layout out of store! Not much longer now before we can return to scenes like these:

 

 

 

 

‘Robert’

[TerryD1471]

Congratulations on your achievement so far. I look forward to seeing further developments on thus excellent layout. Although my modelling is based on the "wet side" of the Pennines, long association with Leighford, Stoke Summit and even Charwelton has given me a sneaking regard for the LNER/ ER! Power to your elbow!

[iankemp]

Hello All,

 

Not much modelling at the moment but work has continued steadily in preparing Grantham’s new home, so hope the following is of interest nonetheless:

 

 

 

 

‘Robert’

 

How did you create the double crossover? have you got a separate picture of it and how you made this please.

 

Thanks

 

Ian