Grantham - the Streamliner years

[BrushVeteran]

I expect to see a few O2's on here then in about eighteen months time!!

[coachmann]

Shame on me....I have only just come across this thread through scouting around. I've read through much of it while her indoors is watching TV and the idea of reducing the 6 foot to 45mm between track interests me greatly. So to did your curving of a single slip, something I should have attempted with a Peco diamond recently. Great ideas. LNER 1930s may not be my cup of tea but your coaching stock is of great interest and I do like your creative use of Peco track.

Edited November 27, 2012 by coachmann

[LNER4479]

Thanks for posting Coach - and I do hope I don't end up being responsible for you ripping up the tracks through Greenfield again! I've been following your story with interest. It looks as if the Peco long crossing is too acute an angle for your junction in truth but I have to admit it would take a gentle curve a treat

[LNER4479]

I expect to see a few O2's on here then in about eighteen months time!!

 

Well, we have had at least one visitor so far (from a couple of years ago):

 

But, yes, need to start saving now (such a better choice of prototype than the O1)!

Edited November 27, 2012 by LNER4479

[Obi-Jiff Kenobi]

What an impressive piece of work, and good to see something set in my favourite era, LNER 1930s. I'll be following this with great interest.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Some classic steam-age track design at work here, rarely – if ever – seen on the modern railway.

 

Absolutely beautiful track bashing. As an unashamed track nut, this brings joy to my heart. Looking at where you made the cuts, I'm windering if it's possible to build a super-scissors-slips arrangement on 45mm centres.... anyone up to the challenge?

 

I think Coach may be ripping up track even as we speak

[coachmann]

Coach has locked himself out of his shed until the passover...........

 

(until the temptations pass over!)

[LNER4479]

What an impressive piece of work, and good to see something set in my favourite era, LNER 1930s. I'll be following this with great interest.

 

Thanks and welcome on board Obi-J (cracking name!(?!))

 

Looking at where you made the cuts, I'm wondering if it's possible to build a super-scissors-slips arrangement on 45mm centres.... anyone up to the challenge?

 

Thanks for continued kind comments Dr G-F. I really don't think that a 'super scissors' on 45mm centres is possible the way I've done it. Cut much further and you'll be into the frogs (as we call them) themselves. I should have mentioned in the posting that the scissors featured perfectly fits the prototype '10 foot' spacing, which works out as 61mm centres in 4mm scale (the equivalent of the prototype's 15' 2"). So there's another 16mm to find before we're down to 45mm centres.

 

As I'm sure you know (being a self-confessed 'track nut'), this [the '10 foot'] was the additional spacing where there were multiple sets of running lines. On the LNER, this was typically arranged as:

Down Slow/Relief (10 foot) Down Fast/Main (6 foot) Up Fast/Main (10 foot) Up Slow/Relief. This is still the case on the ECML Peterborough-Stoke (summit) and York-Northallerton. This contrasts with LMS practice where it was:

Down Fast/Main (6 foot) Up Fast/Main (10 foot) Down Slow/Relief (6 foot) Up Slow/Relief. Much of the WCML south of Crewe is still like this.

 

The 'super scissors' shown is being used in a '10 foot' situation at Grantham, where the Down Relief starts and between there and Yard Box we have a short stretch of four running lines set out in LNER style as above.

 

By contrast, the use of a 'super scissors' on a normal pair of running lines (Up-Down) would be quite rare and probably only found in station areas where speeds would be quite slow (and often the 45mm spacing would break down anyway). Happily (for me), there were a pair of these right in the centre of Carlisle station under the main trainshed so one day I'll get to indulge further...

 

Coach has locked himself out of his shed until the passover...........

 

Excellent, Coach! That really did give me a laugh this morning So much so that I've taken a break from writing a tedious document (for work) to tell you so!

Edited November 28, 2012 by LNER4479

[davidw]

 

Read all about it - Grantham First run in new home!

 

Following the move last weekend, I was – frustratingly – working away last week, so we’ve had to wait till this weekend to ‘have a play’. Fortunately, a visiting collection of LNER stock was on hand so we had quite an array. As I was running the layout, there was limited opportunity to take photos but I made an effort at one point so here are the results:

 

Quite an apple green fest! I’m sure your powers of loco observation are up to the task but a couple of items of note. The ‘A4’ is not an A4 but of course the unique W1 in its rebuilt form (1937 onwards). The C5 in the foreground is an old McGowan Models kit, recently completed. Not all locos on view are ‘classic’ Grantham locos, but there again, almost anything could turn up on a running in turn from Doncaster!

 

The Coronation set gets an airing, with Dominion of New Zealand in charge (and very nicely it ran too).

 

Later on, I pointed the camera at the fiddle yard which hasn’t featured before now.

 

Although Grantham is in essence a ‘roundy roundy’ layout, the fiddle yard has been designed with certain things in mind. For a start, there’s a turntable, as I have an aversion to the same loco/train running in the same direction all day, so the idea is to replace the loco after each run, turn it and send it back the other way with another train. That should vastly increase the variety ‘out front’ and make the presentation of trains through Grantham more convincing. It is a fiddle yard afterall!

 

Work has concentrated so far at the north end where most loops are laid. By contrast the south end is pretty bare; most of the cork shown here will eventually have rails on it. The two roads either side (ie far left and far right) are the through running lines forming the continuous run, the idea being that once a train is out, any shunting (mainly loco moves) can be undertaken in the meantime.

 

This view shows some of the connections to the through running lines at the south end. To the right is what I’m calling the ‘link board’ and there will be six dead end sidings for additional stock storage to make best use of the space between the front and the back of the layout. The teaks that can just been seen to the right are on one of these sidings, laid temporary for now.

 

So, there you have it – Grantham is fully christened in its new home. Hopefully I can now provide a steady supply of ‘new’ photos going forward as I have the layout on hand to work on.

 

‘Robert’

 

 

 

Only seeing a shot like that do I appreciate how colour ful steam once was!

[Anglian]

The layout looks most comfortable in its vast new home. I can't wait to see Carlisle if Grantham is not your main interest.

[LNER4479]

Only seeing a shot like that do I appreciate how colour ful steam once was!

 

Thanks David,

 

I do wonder and worry about the state of cleanliness, although there's no denying the colour variety. The owner of the visiting stock won't let a weathering brush anywhere near so pristine they will stay! As virtually all pre-war shots are black and white, it can be difficult to judge quite how clean or otherwise stock was kept. However, from what I have read, locos - especially the more prestigious ones - were kept quite clean (very clean in some cases!). Also that Grantham shed itself did have a fine reputation for clean locos - and good running - during the era in question, so I think I'm generally OK. I will apply some weathering to some of the 'lesser' locos and stock of mine though.

 

Certainly a far cry from the mid-1960's steam-to-diesel transition era that seems to be the subject of many a layout at the moment...

[Obi-Jiff Kenobi]

I find the question of whether to weather a difficult one to answer. I've not weathered any of my stock yet, as I have nowhere to run them, but when the time comes I would be loathe to weather any of Sir Nigel's finest! Accurate though it may be to make them look at least used, if not dirty, I don't know if I can bring myself to mess up the lovely greens, blues and teak.

[LNER4479]

The layout looks most comfortable in its vast new home. I can't wait to see Carlisle if Grantham is not your main interest.

 

It sure is nice to have it 'on hand' and to run the odd train now and then. The O4 with it's coal train takes about 3 minutes to do a circuit

 

I'm trying not to get too distracted with thoughts of Carlisle. Some bits of it do exist already though, namely the 'rest of the world' and the start of an S&C scene (Garsdale). But it's a sobering thought that it will take a whole 25 yard box of Peco just to get a length of double track from one end of the chapel railway room to the other

[Joseph_Pestell]

Love the modified Peco trackwork - especially the curved slips. Just a minor point (pun not intended), the "mega-scissors" should probably have more checkrails.

[LNER4479]

Just a minor point (pun not intended), the "mega-scissors" should probably have more checkrails.

 

Hi Joseph,

 

Yes, fair point (reciprocal pun). My work merely modifies the pointwork 'as is'. Sometimes, you find two checkrails 'join up', other times there's a gap. You could go round fashioning odd bits of plastic off cuts and adding them. For me it's OK, but fair enough to highlight this if others wish to take the ideas further. We're a broad church afterall

[Joseph_Pestell]

Hi Joseph,

 

We're a broad church afterall

 

A broad chapel in your case.

[davidw]

Am i correct in thinking that you're using code 100 track?

[LNER4479]

Am i correct in thinking that you're using code 100 track?

 

Yes, I am David

 

Exhibition robustness is my primary reason here. Nothing wrong with Code 75 and I have used it before (and plan to use it for Carlisle) but my experience with a previous exhibition layout was that the track does get knocked about a bit during set up, packing and transportation (however careful you are) and the Code 100 withstands this better.

 

I also find that if you paint the rails it all 'blends in' and the relative coarseness is not that apparent, particularly for a larger layout where it's about portraying the overall scene and not so much about the fastidiousness of whether the individual chairs have three bolts or two bolts (wonderfully inspirational though that approach can be).

 

No rights or wrongs; just my approach, nothing more!

Edited November 30, 2012 by LNER4479

[davidw]

I'm modelling ECML 1959 - 61 so the area does have a particular fascination for me. Though for the moment only in a space 16' by 13' but I can dream !

Edited November 30, 2012 by davidw

[LNER4479]

I'm modelling ECML 1959 - 61 so the area does have a particular fascination for me. Though for the moment only in a space 16' by 13' but I can dream !

 

Hey, you can do a fair bit of damage in 16' x 13' David, especially if you content yourself with six-seven coach trains. Interesting era you've chosen as well, no doubt to get the best of both worlds with Deltics and Kylchap fitted pacifics cheek by jowl. No doubt you've seen Keith Pirt's Colour of Grantham book - plenty of inspiration there.

 

I dreamt of having a space like I've now got for the best part of 30 years so keep dreaming; it's great when the dream finally comes true (although the heating bills might yet be the nightmare!)

[davidw]

The scheme I'm working on should allow 9/10 coaches - the trick will be keeping the the feel uncluttered.

 

I've got a number of KP's colour protfolio's they're great!

Edited November 30, 2012 by davidw

[coachmann]

There's something about Peco Code 100 that I like and prefer to Code 75, probably due to the rail-fixing chairs being heavier and more prominant. I used it on my layout in 2007, this being the first since 1964, and thought Code 100 was an okay track system. Then a pal dropped a yard of SMP onto my layout as well.....Nuff said! Code 100 will be on the garden section though. The track-level images we are so used to seeing nowadays must be a factor in upping the image of track.

Edited November 30, 2012 by coachmann

[LNER4479]

Can't disagree with any of that Coach.

 

And now, if you'll excuse me, after a six hour 'hell' journey on ECML from 'the smoke' this afternoon, I need to unwind with some therapeutic code 100 tracklaying...

Edited November 30, 2012 by LNER4479

[tetleys]

LNER 4479

 

I've just returned to your post and am amazed and enlightened by your surgery on Peco points, that could help me with a couple of tight corners on the non scenic areas of my new layout, fortunately I salvage virtually all of my Peco points from Tetleys Mills and since they are virtually worthless second hand it will be worth my while experimenting, I'm hoping to find the funds to have my scenic point work professionally made but your solution certainly adds interest.

 

As for the visiting stock, I can appreciate the reticence of the owner to apply weathering to what are probably very expensive models which is one reason why I prefer RTR, my own opinion is that every loco and coach gathered some muck even if only along the boiler top but my opinion counts for nothing anyway.

 

As an aside but on that subject, I recall a good few years ago when I avidly read everything I could on railways and especially The Premier Line THE LNER I read that the streamliners, Coronation, West Riding etc coaching stock was washed and polished overnight, that at a time when the companie's staff were lucky to have a bath once a week!

 

Keep up the good work, most enjoyable and if you can get some therapy maybe Carlisle could yet be converted to York!

 

The Ancaster Infidel.

[LNER4479]

Ah that's better

 

That 'curved' single slip now installed. With my usual spray paint treatment it's blended in quite well. Time to have a play...

 

Do you like my test train? My out-of-the-box O4 (yet to be weathered) takes a rake of 20 3-link coupled coal wagons over the new piece of track, heading out towards Nottingham. The point behind the test was to approach the slip at walking pace and 'see what happened'; previous with the old double slip it binded too much and slowed the train down. What happened tonight was that the whole ensemble continued at walking pace without a murmer. Very satisfying.

 

Incidentally, what do you think of the short dead end piece of track ending in the buffer stop? This is not any sort of headshunt but simply a short protection dead end. The line alongside (that the goods line is merging into) is the main passenger running line in and out of the west side of the station so this protection was to prevent a runaway or inadvertant move against a signal from careering into an adjacent passenger train (presumably it would career down onto Harlaxton Road below instead!). Such protection was virtually de rigeur on the steam age railway, there was one here on the real Grantham so it's replicated on the model. It's the only reason it's a slip point at all!

 

For the hell of it, once clear of the crossing, I attempted to set back the whole train over it in reverse (I tried this with the old slip point in the past - with inevitable results). Guess what? It trundled back across at the same walking pace without any hint of a derailment. I tried it again - same result! I even tried it with the good lady watching and still the wagons refused to derail!! Blimey, even though I say it myself that is impressive. These are all RTR wagons, totally reliant on their basic plastic fixed buffers when in reverse. Certainly the single slip is a vast improvement on the older type double slip (the point bars are further apart so the core inner curve isn't quite so tight) but it just shows what can be achieved with Peco track with a bit of care and attention.

 

Definitely fully de-stressed now

 

I've just returned to your post and am amazed and enlightened by your surgery on Peco points, that could help me with a couple of tight corners on the non scenic areas of my new layout, fortunately I salvage virtually all of my Peco points from Tetleys Mills and since they are virtually worthless second hand it will be worth my while experimenting, I'm hoping to find the funds to have my scenic point work professionally made but your solution certainly adds interest.

 

Thanks for further kind comments Dave, infidel though you may be! Definitely worth experimenting on a few old points if you haven't tried any of these techniques before. Watch out for ones that might be a little 'gunged' up on the sides of the rails. When you try and curve them there might be quite a bit of resistance then they'll suddenly 'give' in a shower of bits of old glue and ballast! Certainly be interested to know how you get on.

Edited December 1, 2012 by LNER4479