Dapol 2012/13 (and now 2014) O gauge range discussion thread

[Barnaby]

Now now boys let's play trains and have some fun.

[adrianbs]

Hi All and AndyY in particular,
If you would like to read my post on the 4th Oct which was the first reference I made to the DJM proposed range you will see I made no reference whatsever as to which models were being made in which scale.!!!!! Strangely enough it was AndyY himself, in reply to my post, on the 5th Oct who clearly inferred that there was an O gauge Class 17 in the list by stating "Where are the Class 17; Class 23 ---- in O gauge" It was AndyY’s comment that led to a post from fenman saying that he was pleased to hear of a 7mm Class 17.

It was not AndyY who said he would be disappointed there was no class 17 but me and I added no Class 17 or 23 in 4mm. This was because of the "Images of DJ models" shown on the internet which I assumed might have confused others, as I had been when AndyY referred to the Class 17 in O gauge. These images were posted by RMweb themselves and knowing how close the relations are between AndyY and DJM I am afraid I took Andy's comments as gospel !!!! Having seen Andy Y refer to a 7mm 17, it seemed logical, bearing in mind the caption on the internet also referred to a 4mm model to add my later comment about Dave Alexander’s 4mm kit

I do hate it when people, not for the first time, add their own imaginary additions to my posts just so that they can slag me off !!!!! Most especially when they themselves have posted the very item which they have accused me of. Clearly my efforts to inform modellers of the qualities of certain ready to run products are not appreciated in any way on RMweb so I will not be giving you any further advice on this forum and if you want to be better informed I suggest you look to other forums not connected to RMweb.

I have no doubt that AndyY and certain manufacturers will be greatly relieved to hear this I can only hope that the standard of new models in the future does not remain as dire as many recent introductions, otherwise modellers will continue to be "taken for a ride" as they have been for so long.

Goodnight and goodbye to all adrianbs on the assumption there is no likelihood of an abject grovelling apology !!

[Andy Y]

Sighs with frustration at the amount of time being wasted..

 

In post http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59212-Dapol-201213-o-gauge-range-discussion-thread/page-14&do=findComment&comment=1180115 I was questioning your inaccurate statements and extending it beyond what was clearly announced here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75838-dj-models-announce-new-models-in-n-oo-and-o/

 

I don't have to add anything to your posts to feel the need to correct your wild assumptions.

 

Please hang the pointy stick up by the door.

[Jon Fitness]

Hi All and AndyY in particular,

If you would like to read my post on the 4th Oct which was the first reference I made to the DJM proposed range you will see I made no reference whatsever as to which models were being made in which scale.!!!!! Strangely enough it was AndyY himself, in reply to my post, on the 5th Oct who clearly inferred that there was an O gauge Class 17 in the list by stating "Where are the Class 17; Class 23 ---- in O gauge" It was AndyY’s comment that led to a post from fenman saying that he was pleased to hear of a 7mm Class 17.

 

It was not AndyY who said he would be disappointed there was no class 17 but me and I added no Class 17 or 23 in 4mm. This was because of the "Images of DJ models" shown on the internet which I assumed might have confused others, as I had been when AndyY referred to the Class 17 in O gauge. These images were posted by RMweb themselves and knowing how close the relations are between AndyY and DJM I am afraid I took Andy's comments as gospel !!!! Having seen Andy Y refer to a 7mm 17, it seemed logical, bearing in mind the caption on the internet also referred to a 4mm model to add my later comment about Dave Alexander’s 4mm kit

 

I do hate it when people, not for the first time, add their own imaginary additions to my posts just so that they can slag me off !!!!! Most especially when they themselves have posted the very item which they have accused me of. Clearly my efforts to inform modellers of the qualities of certain ready to run products are not appreciated in any way on RMweb so I will not be giving you any further advice on this forum and if you want to be better informed I suggest you look to other forums not connected to RMweb.

 

I have no doubt that AndyY and certain manufacturers will be greatly relieved to hear this I can only hope that the standard of new models in the future does not remain as dire as many recent introductions, otherwise modellers will continue to be "taken for a ride" as they have been for so long.

 

Goodnight and goodbye to all adrianbs on the assumption there is no likelihood of an abject grovelling apology !!

yawn....

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Hi All,

 

I find this is all very sad - Adrian is a very knowledgable, experienced and approachable guy, well known and liked in the industry.

 

He is not a 'troll' as some have implied - it is my sincere belief that Adrian means/meant well.

 

We also know that there can be computer glitches at times - making things hard to follow - and for those of us with dyslexia (thankfully the lower end of the spectrum for me) doubly so when reading on a screen (not sure of the technical/scientific reasons for this).

 

Suffice to say it is great to be passionate about an interest or hobby, yet at the end of the day, even taking into account some's livelihood is model railways (ie Dapol, Dave, Adrian), we are only playing trains. There is no doubt that Dapol has dropped some clangers with their first 0 gauge releases - no value judgements towards those who have purchased such on my part, yet Dapol should have known better.....we have now all moved on from that, now that there is some continuous improvements apparent with those models.

 

Can we not, to paraphrase the great The Big Bang Theory, reset the computer <so to speak> to the point that it was before it all went pete tong!? After all we all have 'off' days.

 

The perspective for my mates and me is the disaster in the Philippines - that puts everything in perspective...

 

IMHO the whole matter needs toning down.

 

I do not wish to take sides and in the wild-west world of the interweb things are not the same as in the real world...

 

...I know that there are some on RMW and other forums et al, who, from the perspective of many are seen to be whiter than white, yet when approached, face to face, or when dealing with the modelling trade, they have let themselves down very badly indeed (in terms of their attitude, lanuguage and/or approach towards those customers), which reminds me of the saying..."let him who is without sin, cast the first stone." I am not 'holier than thou', no one is perfect, yet a little forgiveness goes a long, long way.

 

Adrian Swain, has, in my experience - and those of my friends - always been kind and helpful towards his customers, offering a wealth of knowledge and often a disproportionate amount of time, in the extreme, to help those in need. Certain suppliers and manufacturers could learn a lot from that approach - and perhaps a little humility too.

 

The usual caveats apply with regard to any business relationships etc...

 

My apologies that this Post is not directly related to Dapol's models, yet as human-beings are more important than models, I believe that some clarification and balance was needed.

 

Kindest regards to one and all,

 

CME

[frobisher]

CME and Bottlewasher, on 15 Nov 2013 - 12:11, said:

He is not a 'troll' as some have implied - it is my sincere belief that Adrian means/meant well.

To be fair, his behaviour here was 'trollish', and he had something of an agenda (with which he was like a dog with a bone). I'd rather he'd taken stock of his behaviour than do a prima donna flounce off from the forum.

[Andy Y]

 

Adrian Swain, has, in my experience - and those of my friends - always been kind and helpful towards his customers, offering a wealth of knowledge and often a disproportionate amount of time, in the extreme, to help those in need. Certain suppliers and manufacturers could learn a lot from that approach - and perhaps a little humility too.

 

 

By the same token there's some folk whose persona on the internet may be considered 'unfortunate'.

[steve fay]

Looks like there might be a bit more of a delay with the 08 but now Richard is at the helm I think it should be worth the extra wait.

There will be a home on Ranelagh Bridge for one when it does arrive

[CME and Bottlewasher]

To be fair, his behaviour here was 'trollish', and he had something of an agenda (with which he was like a dog with a bone). I'd rather he'd taken stock of his behaviour than do a prima donna flounce off from the forum.

 

 

By the same token there's some folk whose persona on the internet may be considered 'unfortunate'.

Hi Guys,

 

I do see your points - nevertheless its all very sad IMHO.

 

Sadly Adrian seems to have now got a 'bad rep' on this Thread, which is unfortunate as it doesnt really represent the man (in reality).

 

But at least he doesnt swear at - or ignore - customers, which some companies/company reps have been known to do....and it's only railway modelling LOL!?!

 

Nuff said.

 

KInd regards to you both,

 

CME

[Dreadnought05]

I notice that Dapol's release "schedule" on their website on both the 6 wheel milk tank and the 08 have changed from Nov/Dec 2013 & Feb 2014 respectively to "TBC"

http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_298_299_329

http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_298_299_328

[Kev_Lewis]

I notice that Dapol's release "schedule" on their website on both the 6 wheel milk tank and the 08 have changed from Nov/Dec 2013 & Feb 2014 respectively to "TBC"

http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_298_299_329

http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=179_298_299_328

 

It appears from the Class 08 page that it hasn't made it off the "drawing board" yet.

 

I'm glad it would no longer suit the period I model. It doesn't look like it'll along any time soon.

[Dreadnought05]

Perhaps there'll be an update from Dapol at Warley (wishful thinking).

[CME and Bottlewasher]

Perhaps there'll be an update from Dapol at Warley (wishful thinking).

 

Agreed, Dapol seem to be lacking passion (or info) re their O gauge products.....if they havnt declared by Warley, then I think that many may lose interest.

[two tone green]

They had a good stand at Telford with projected production dates.

 

Cant remember any of them

[F-UnitMad]

Agreed, Dapol seem to be lacking passion (or info) re their O gauge products....

I'm not surprised, given the constant thrashing they've had from certain quarters over their wagons...

....if they havnt declared by Warley, then I think that many may lose interest.

I must admit; having keenly anticipated their Class 08, I am beginning to wonder if it'll happen at all, never mind if it's worth the wait... it was the one-and-only model I've ever placed a Pre-order on, especially "sight unseen". They surely must have got some idea of how popular (or otherwise?) it would be... to now keep pushing back the release date really feels to me quite unfair, having raised expectations so much.

[boxbrownie]

Totally agree with both sentiments, and quite frankly I had a few Dapol wagons bought for me as pressies and they look like er....wagons to me, although I must admit to not checking measurements with "Wagons of the British Railways 1820 to 1978 part four, by Peter Pedantic"

They will be weathered within an inch of thier lives, although not sure about the inch....maybe it should be 3 inches? 

 

As to the 08......the first time I have preordered sight unseen also, surely as you say they must have had some indication as to the demand, either way Dapol should be more open and accurate about timing plans, or they really will poison the well (if they have not already done so).

[two tone green]

A lot of the hype was if I remember rightly created by a certain person who is now Ex Dapol.

 

Over ambitious by any chance. Outsiders seemed to know more about the goings on within the company to do with the 08 and were shot down in flames but so far have been proved correct over and over again.

[boxbrownie]

I am interested to know just exactly what the outsiders were correct about regarding the 08? 

[two tone green]

delays

[boxbrownie]

delays

  

 

Is that it?  Delays?  Well I would hazard a quess that HS2 will be delayed..............just what ambitious new project is not subject to delays?

 

 

As to "the hype" it would appear that a "certain person" was actually doing his job correctly then!

[Revolution Mike]

A lot of the hype was if I remember rightly created by a certain person who is now Ex Dapol.

 

Over ambitious by any chance. Outsiders seemed to know more about the goings on within the company to do with the 08 and were shot down in flames but so far have been proved correct over and over again.

 

???

 

Dapol announced a cheap 08 in 7mm which lead to potential customers creating the hype (let's not indulge in a philosophical debate about whether it was the initial announcement or subsequent enthusiasm which was the hype).  Sadly it has been delayed (far from unique for model railway products at the moment from all manufacturers). Dapol have had a change of staff and perhaps communication strategy which has left a bit of a vacuum.

 

Not the end of the world...as with all things model railways - it can be frustrating waiting for things to arrive, but invariably they come eventually.

(No doubt Dapol will now announce its cancellation at Warley - tongue firmly in cheek!).

[gardenwall]

A lot of the hype was if I remember rightly created by a certain person who is now Ex Dapol.

 

Over ambitious by any chance. Outsiders seemed to know more about the goings on within the company to do with the 08 and were shot down in flames but so far have been proved correct over and over again.

 

You are correct, Dave was and is an enthusiast, however I suspect that there was more to the machinations there than meets the eye. However you cut it, Dapol have now announced a series of 0 gauge wagons at Guildex this year, definitely post Dave - it remains to be seen when they actually turn up. They could even overtake some of the previously announce items, it would be reasonable to assume they would wish to show what the new team can do!  Design work is supposed to be underway, with engineering prototypes early in the new year - which is not that far away now.   We shall see.

 

Dave is also beavering away, though his O gauge stuff is further out and dependent on satisfactory N/00 turnover. If I read the published information rightly it won't be before the end of 2014, probably into 2015 since his projected product rate is around 8 per year including commissions of which he now has at least 3.

 

Ixion seem to have the best track record in reliably producing models to time and budget, however their one at a time methodology is unlikely to suit larger companies and it remains to be seen if they can continue to avoid the 'hydra like' production difficulties affecting most companies in producing product in China that have been referred to elsewhere.  Lionheart have given longer timescales on their latest wagons in development recognising production constraints - late 2104 for the coke raves and probably later for the Company wagons (and they are only indications).

[two tone green]

Will see what happens then. Have fun.

[Dreadnought05]

I'm not surprised, given the constant thrashing they've had from certain quarters over their wagons...

I must admit; having keenly anticipated their Class 08, I am beginning to wonder if it'll happen at all, never mind if it's worth the wait... it was the one-and-only model I've ever placed a Pre-order on, especially "sight unseen". They surely must have got some idea of how popular (or otherwise?) it would be... to now keep pushing back the release date really feels to me quite unfair, having raised expectations so much.

 

Agreed. It was the announcement of the 08 that made me take the plunge into O. It'd be a shame to not have anything to push the stock I have along a shunting plank.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

I'm not surprised, given the constant thrashing they've had from certain quarters over their wagons...

I must admit; having keenly anticipated their Class 08, I am beginning to wonder if it'll happen at all, never mind if it's worth the wait... it was the one-and-only model I've ever placed a Pre-order on, especially "sight unseen". They surely must have got some idea of how popular (or otherwise?) it would be... to now keep pushing back the release date really feels to me quite unfair, having raised expectations so much.

Hi J (?)

 

I too am looking forward to their 08 - a golden opportunity for Dapol one would think - and it is a fine line between Dapol spending their time Posting and updating vs actually designing, expediting and delivery the models. Yet balance in all things is required.

 

That said, it is a shame that they havnt Posted here, since Dave left, IMHO that is a missed opportunity on their part in this media savvy day and age. It is true to say that, back in the day, we had a yearly catologue (if we were lucky) and then placed an order with Beatties et al., things have moved on and changed though, like it or not.

 

RMW must be an invaluable tool/portal for the model railway manufacturers who wish to sell in the UK.

 

Sadly the issue of the Dapol planked 7mm wagons has been discussed ad-infinitum, and the only one's to blame, are Dapol, as the matter - of accuracy etc. - was in their own hands all of the time, I think that for a subject matter expert such as Dapol the issues of empathy, sympathy or pity cannot be applied (like it or not, after all that is capitalism at work, survival of the fittest, laissez faire etc). Having said that and whereby capitalism doesnt always work - to paraphrase, quality doesnt always win out - the wagons have sold well and if Dapol are shy, retiring, delciate little butterflies then perhaps they shouldnt be in business - perhaps they're just embarrassed and dont want any feedback or constructive criticism LOL!!

 

Seriously though, I expect that they are bedding-in their two new recruits - and after parachuting in the new recruits will be trying to get up to speed too - they have a lot to focus on, yet the occassional Post here wouldnt do any harm. It must be a challenge to listen to every need or every railway modeller, yet not communicating, effectively, with ones customers is a little foolhardy (I believe) - especially when there is a wonderful resource such as RMWeb on tap.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME.