Dapol 2012/13 (and now 2014) O gauge range discussion thread

[CME and Bottlewasher]

I think there's enough of us on here at least to not let it be "quietly dropped" from production... there's a lot of people waiting for the 08 and Terrier (and the modern wagons) as the impetus to push them into giving 7mm modelling a go.

Hi CN,

 

I would like to agree with you, yet Dapol, as with many other companies, will do what they want, when they want, so I think that the issue could be likened to trying to 'heard cats'.

 

As I say it needs - tacit-knowledge and expertise so only time will tell if Dapol now have such in house or not.

 

I think that there is a good level of demand for the 08 and Terrier, yet if Dapol have to buy in expertise, there is then the question of cost and viability relative to costs...

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

[two tone green]

Where is the RM web limited edition wagon. No news on this from any one.

 

Over exposure on the O gauge front, to much too soon to quickly could well have sunk all of it. Some back peddling and a reality check now a certain person has left. Who knows what happened in Dapol.

[adrianbs]

Hi All  and a particuiar HI to frobisher about O gauge not being on the High Street before Heljan et al appeared.  I am not sure which High St he is talking

 about. perhaps it is the one where he lives. 20 years ago I was supplying my O gauge range to at least a dozen well known  (at that time ! ) High Street

 outlets and you could buy Slaters, Parkside and Peco items in many more shops.   I was very selective about who I supplied for good commercial reasons.

A further point has come to mind about the proposed rigid coupling which even if it did work, which I doubt, it would mean most modellers having to

replace their coupling hooks or at least modify them as most manufacturers don't have hooks with the over-ride bump,  Ours do and we have also just

introduced nice scale blackened BRASS  and  STEEL links. Not for any scale reason but simply because the arthritis in my right thumb makes winding the

links very painful these days !!!  No sign of the video of the Dapol coupling in use propelling wagons yet ????   Regards  All  Adrian

[raymw]

Hi Adrian,

20 years ago I was supplying my O gauge range     etc.

 

and what range was/is that?

 

Best wishes,

 

Ray

[frobisher]

adrianbs, on 31 Aug 2013 - 20:02, said:

Hi All and a particuiar HI to frobisher about O gauge not being on the High Street before Heljan et al appeared. I am not sure which High St he is talking

about. perhaps it is the one where he lives. 20 years ago I was supplying my O gauge range to at least a dozen well known (at that time ! ) High Street

outlets and you could buy Slaters, Parkside and Peco items in many more shops. I was very selective about who I supplied for good commercial reasons.

With respect, that's not the same thing at all. I would expect any decent model railway stockist to carry some 0 Gauge stock, or at least be able to order it up for you be they on the high street or elsewhere. I was referring to "Ready To Run" 0 Gauge.

[Dava]

As Dapol have booked a stand at Guildex (Telford) next weekend I'm sure lots of 7mm modellers will be asking them precisely what their plans and delivery dates for the 08, Terrier, wagons etc (and the Beattie Well tank for Kernow Models) will be.

 

But it does seem that the costs of tooling up for production of, not one but 3, gauge 0 locos are pretty high, at a time of some uncertainty about demand and increasing choices. Even in the RTR market, folks like me are probably thinking about which of the locos we KNOW will appear, we will actually buy next winter - eg in my case the Heljan AC railbus and the Ixion Fowler diesel.

 

Dava

[GW57]

Hi all, is it about 2years ago that Dapol said that they were bringing out the 08 .???

Because it feels like a life time!!

I have had one on order with Tower Models from the beginning, and every time I see Dapol at a show I get a different answer as to when the 08 is coming out.

I for one, if it does not appear by march 2014 will be cancelling my order and buy something else.

It is a great shame that large companies like Dapol just don't get on and produce the product and see how the market goes like they do in 4mm!!!

 

 

Regards Richard

[adrianbs]

Hi All, Somehow I had totally missed the RMweb special Dapol wagon thread, not that I want one. I am wondering if

the sponsor has decided not to accept the extra-faulty batch of wagons being used exclusively for many of the other

specials and is waiting for Dapol to have more of the slightly different 7 plank wagons that they themselves sell

as standard issue. If those who have already ordered are still prepared to accept what Dapol are presumably going to

offer I hope they will ovelook all the discrepancies between the model and the photo of the real thing. They may well

have placed their orders even before seeing the final Dapol product as so many others did.

I was in a bit of a hurry to reply to cromptonnut and forgot to add that many of the shops I used to visit did

have RTR O gauge for sale. Sometimes this was in the form of Triang Big Big and later Lima as well. They also often

had RTR kitbuilt wagons, locos and coaches etc plus some of the prewar efforts of LMC and Milbro and the postwar

Exley coaches. One should certainly not forget Exley as they had, over the years, a huge range of 7mm coaches which

today fetch rather large prices in the collector market. They were aimed more at the coarse scale market but many,

including myself fitted F/S wheels and ran them till better things came along. Bassett Lowke were still in the

O gauge market until the late '60s and Bonds for slightly longer and they offered RTR although much was commissioned

orders made by firms like Anbrico. Regards to all Adrian

[Andy Y]

As the limited edition wagon project was mooted as a fund-raising project for RMweb before Warners took over I decided to let this pass by (as the product wouldn't have been available until after the takeover). Initial pricing had been discussed and this was at a very favourable rate allowing for a good value product for those interested whilst raising funds for the site. After the takeover this would have meant a revision in pricing which would mean I couldn't have delivered as good value on such a short run. I was appreciative of Dapol's kind support on the venture and it wouldn't have been fair to proceed on a commercial basis.

[two tone green]

Thanks for letting us know Andy. A few more pennies to spend at Telford this coming weekend.

[CME and Bottlewasher]

With respect, that's not the same thing at all. I would expect any decent model railway stockist to carry some 0 Gauge stock, or at least be able to order it up for you be they on the high street or elsewhere. I was referring to "Ready To Run" 0 Gauge.

Hi Frobisher,

 

I know several shops who have dabbled in O gauge and then end up with stock upon the shelf - not sold. Whilst they can 'order in' they have to add their mark up/profit, as the market place for 7mm has, by and large grown up around what is, in effect, a cottage industry, it is often easier and more cost effective for the customer to buy direct from the manufacturer. There are exceptions though, with the likes of Parkside and now of course Dapol...Also many established modellers of 7mm wouldnt think to approach their local model shop for 7mm specific products...hope that helps.

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

 

Hi Adrian,

and what range was/is that?

 

Best wishes,

 

Ray

Hi Ray,

 

Adrian supplies a range of highly respected and high quality kits and castings...

 

Kind regards,

 

CME

[Great Western]

Sadly what people on here have been saying, I've been thinking to be honest. I took the step into O gauge purely because Dapol seemed to allow me to afford the models. Looking at a Just like the Real thing kit, built and finished would cost me close to £900, compared to the Dapol 08 at less than £170 was a real draw to the scale. So much so that I started to construct a O guage layout.

 

However, the continued delay in the 08, or at least a 'its going to be here in XXXX come hell or high water' promise. I've decided to call it a day and return to OO.

 

At least with OO its a known quantity for me, I can pop into my local shop with a few quid on pay day and pick up something I fancy, without having to wait several years for the product I'm after to arrive.

 

Sorry Dapol, but you've lost me.

 

Great Western

[cromptonnut]

Sadly what people on here have been saying, I've been thinking to be honest. I took the step into O gauge purely because Dapol seemed to allow me to afford the models. Looking at a Just like the Real thing kit, built and finished would cost me close to £900, compared to the Dapol 08 at less than £170 was a real draw to the scale. So much so that I started to construct a O guage layout.

 

However, the continued delay in the 08, or at least a 'its going to be here in XXXX come hell or high water' promise. I've decided to call it a day and return to OO.

 

At least with OO its a known quantity for me, I can pop into my local shop with a few quid on pay day and pick up something I fancy, without having to wait several years for the product I'm after to arrive.

 

Sorry Dapol, but you've lost me.

 

Great Western

 

Although there were other issues compounding the situation, what you have explained above is similar to what I've been through, and one of the reasons a return to OO is on the cards for me, although I am reluctant to not use my Heljan O gauge 33 having saved up for several years to be able to get one.  As you can guess I have a bit of a soft spot for them.  Unless I can come up with a reasonably interesting one loco layout in 7mm then I can use the space much better in 4mm with a small shopping list on top of the stock and track that I already have, tucked away in4  storage boxes.

[Dava]

Personally I think it's a bit sad that folks are deciding to quit Gauge 0 just on the basis that Dapol may, or may not, deliver on what they announced before they have actually said anything. The GOG has a very professional Trade Liaison Officer who will no doubt tease out what is happening and I'm sure we'll know more after this weekend.

 

The trend is towards more RTR in Gauge 0, as Heljan and Ixion are showing in developing their markets and loyal customers by delivering good (or very good) models. I suspect we'll see more plastic replacing brass, now that San Cheng have closed. But generally, 0 is going to remain a higher cost, lower volume market for niche producers. Quite possibly, Dapol promised a bit more than they could deliver, at a surprising price which may have been a bit too good to be true. No doubt someone will do an '08' at some time if you really want one.

 

However as I've said before, for modellers you can do quite a lot on a budget, by careful buying at Guild & other shows, kit, conversion and scratchbuilding, which many of us do happen to enjoy. You can do more with fewer items of rolling stock in 0. I suspect many of us come into 0 at a time in life when we have a bit more money and space and a bit less acute eyesight.

 

Its always interesting to see the remorseless flow of 'goodies' feeding the 00 market, but I'm relieved of the temptation to buy any of them because I'm saving for a big-budget 0 item. If Heljan hadn't announced the AC railbus I really would have had to contend with punching holes in a biscuit tin, but I think they got enough requests to consider it. Maybe worth asking them?

 

So stick with it guys!

[adrianbs]

Hi All Hi Great Western, I know it may possibly be beyond your budget but Rails of Sheffield have a nice looking

"buy it now" O8 in green with wasp stripes for £395. They are very reputable and good to deal with. You could have

that this week rather than wait and possibly not even get one as good from Dapol. There are often O8s on ebay around

that price, especially as some modellers seem to be offloading, perhaps expecting to be able to replace the model with

a cheap Dapol one and make a profit. If you only came into O gauge because you thought you could buy everything you

were going to want RTR at Dapol prices you might as well get out now. What were you expecting to run with your O8 ??

Dapol only make 3 inaccurate wagon types in a suitable livery and Lionheart only make another 3 or 4 which are much

better but more expensive. All of them bar one are coal wagons. Skytrex are quite possibly going to disappear and

their standards are worse than Dapol. Quite what was your long term aim ?? It does seem that you are expecting the

sort of availability and price of RTR OO which will take decades to happen if it ever does, just as it did in 4mm RTR.

Even now in 4mm there are huge gaps in what should be available and equally large levels of unnecessary duplication,

These gaps are well filled by kits and in 7mm the kit side probably offers even better coverage and will continue

to be the main source of models for decades due to the low volume of sales. Space and cost will always mean that the

production volume of most 7mm RTR products will only be a fraction of that in 4mm and only a very small number of

prototypes will offer a return, every one of those has already been covered many timess by kits in one medium or

another and some by semi mass produced brass models e.g. the San Cheng O8 and Terrier both of which have 3 or more

kit options as well. You will need to consider all these factors but also consider that as you get older your

eyesight and dexterity will not get better !! Regards Adrian

[cromptonnut]

Personally I think it's a bit sad that folks are deciding to quit Gauge 0 just on the basis that Dapol may, or may not, deliver on what they announced before they have actually said anything. The GOG has a very professional Trade Liaison Officer who will no doubt tease out what is happening and I'm sure we'll know more after this weekend.

 

There are many 7mm modellers who haven't, or won't, join the Guild so won't know about such discussions.  Many others join then don't bother to renew as it offers nothing to them, particularly if like me you happen to model the post-steam period.

[boxbrownie]

AdrianBS, I am amazed you would recommend buying that kit made 08 from an unknown manufacturer at over twice the price of the (hopefully) forth coming Dapol 08.  Buying a secondhand kit made model is fraught with more dangers IMHO of accuracy and quality, especially upon just seeing it on a website.

 

Seems to me buy the tone of your threads that you have absolutely no respect for anything RTR and all the time just try and push kits, for some odd reason?

 

If the Dapol 08 when and if it finally arrives is anything like the quality and fidelity of thier 4mm Locos it should kick the likes of Bachman brassworks into the weeds. And yes I have a brand new BBW 08 still sitting in its box unused as I was not happy with the level of detail, I even went as far as buying the excellent MMP detailing kit, but quite frankly upon looking at the amount of work involved (almost as much as building from scratch) I decided I have much better things to do with my time.

 

Yes they made some errors on thier first foray into wagons.......who hasn't made a mistake when building a kit, and then had to change a detail or two?  I own up to that for sure, my Claud is presently waiting for new safety valves as the ones supplied in the kit are wrong for my purpose.

 

I am sure Dapol, Heljan and the like would not slag your castings/kits (still not heard the name of your kits yet) off for needing to be cleaned up and fettled before being used.

 

We 7mm modellers need to stick together and stop the in fighting and petty squabling.......or we will indeed be loosing the market that we all need.

[ngtrains.com]

(still not heard the name of your kits yet)

 

Crikey, are you putting some special effort into being dim?

 

 

AdrianBS

 

 

[RedgateModels]

 

[boxbrownie]

Crikey, are you putting some special effort into being dim?

 

 

AdrianBS

Actually no, I would never have put that together from the nickname......thanks for info, your nickname I had no problems linking the two

[ngtrains.com]

Actually no, I would never have put that together from the nickname......thanks for info, your nickname I had no problems linking the two

 

Of course I might have got it wrong it could be Adrian  Bovine Secretions or something along those lines

[boxbrownie]

Of course I might have got it wrong it could be Adrian  Bovine Secretions or something along those lines

 

Oh, believe me.....I was tempted.....very tempted

[two tone green]

Boxbrownie,

 

If Dapol stick with the quality of their N and OO models I won't be buying one.

 

Reading the Dapol threads on here there are many returns at the moment to DCC supplies. The guys here where I work who don't post on here are returning models a quite a bit.

[Adams442T]

I feel Dapol are struggling to get the better of the, seemingly substantial, returns problem.  The loss of NotDapolDave, for whatever reason, must have been another blow.  The Western and Beattie Well Tank though show they can really come up with the goods when they get it right.  

 

How much NDD was responsible for those two though we don't know, but certainly I miss his honest, open, responses to problems here.  Dapol cannot I feel risk becoming another Hornby, with poor and/or contradictory statements being made to customers and trade.  That will potentially affect them even more as they lack the greater portfolio of products that Hornby have to fall back on.

 

I, for one, would rather have an honest statement, be it about faults or delivery times, with, if commercially possible, reasons (not excuses).  Then I would almost certainly stick with my existing pre-orders and await the outcome.

 

But...........as they are now I am doubtful.

[DJM Dave]

Hi Adams442T,

 

I wasn't wholly responsible for either model you mention.

 

The Western was a 'collaboration' between myself on behalf of my then company, and the members of RMweb, and for that I shall always be truly grateful.

 

The Beattie was a Kernow model, with my input on the chassis, wiring, 'some' fine details and alterations but the rest was down to Chris and his crew at Kernow, as they knew exactly what they wanted and got it.

 

Needless to say the last 6 weeks have given me another 2 'interesting' chapters in my book, that's for sure. lol

 

cheers

NDD