Downendian details

[Downendian]

Progress this week on the clayliner rake. Parkside PC02A  diag 1/039/044 in progress here x9 will form about half the rake, Cambrian diag D1375 of LMS/SR vintage and five Hornby ex GWR/LNER five plankers will make up the balance. All of which were part of authentic clayliner rakes of the 1970s, as Paul Bartlett’s excellent site confirms. The 1/044  wagons have been painted railmatch bauxite but will get a liberal covering of kaolin to match their mid 1970s condition. I’ve added the black data panels with a sharpie, and are awaiting gloss varnish and decals from Cambridge custom transfers. The rake will be hauled of course by a Western, or rarely a class 46, headcode 6V53 (empty) or 6M55 (loaded). I’m still undecided whether to fit tarps, will aid in hiding weight, but I’ll try and add liquid lead to the underside of the wagons first as I’d prefer the Southbound empty working as it’s the one I saw the most. The pool numbers will be added using yellow US Air Force decals which are the closest in font and size I can find. 8/9 Parkside wagons have had roller bearings (wizard models) added after  carving off the oil axle box covers, a bit of a faff but most clayliner wagons had these fitted due to the distance and speed of operation.

 

another project in the planning is an upgrade to my Lima siphon Gs (yes I know Accurascale  ones are imminent- I have many on order), but I can justify a few more as they were regularly in parcels trains of my youth. Plus I have seven excellent Blacksmiths etches to convert the siphons to O.62s, the Lima bogies will be replaced by suitably modified Mainline/Dapol bogies which are more accurate.

I was rather lucky to pick up the excellent HMRS volume by Jack Slinn and Bernard Clarke for just £14 recently and will be a significant aid in attempting to build these models.

Neil

[MJI]

How about the Ratio clay wagons?

[Downendian]

Hi Martin. The ratio (now Parkside kit) is I think for the BR built  9’ wheelbase china clay tippler which saw use mainly in Cornwall, although I’ve seen photos of them at Stoke Gifford in Clayliner rakes. I’ve got plenty of the Bachmann version of this wagon, but wanted an authentic clayliner rake which were mainly 1/044 and D1375 wagons, with a small number of ex big 4 5-plank wagons too. All these were 10 foot wheelbase. The GWR builds of 1911 or so were long gone by the 1970s.

Neil 

[Phil Bullock]

Great stuff Neil! But beware of the wagon police … Nee Nah Nee Nah …. I used to call them tarps but apparently they are sheets ! 
 

The empties ran south with the sheets either folded in the wagons or in a van …. Have put them folded in my empty train of Bachmann 9ft wheelbase wagons. Hoping someone might do 10ft wheelbase wagons RTR … 😀 could be a job for Rapido perhaps? 

[Downendian]

Indeed Phil, Rapido have been churning out the ex SR wagons recently, but alas not the D1375, Anyhow the Cambrian kits are far cheaper - and I’ve become a bit of a kit building addict, plus I get to customise, chose running numbers etc. However time to pack things away in the dining room ready for Xmas!

Noted  re tarp/sheets I had seen that before, plus I hope to include a couple of Parkside box vans in the rake.  I also need to get the final wagons in these rakes fitted with working tail lamps.

Neil 

[Phil Bullock]

1 hour ago, Downendian said:

Indeed Phil, Rapido have been churning out the ex SR wagons recently, but alas not the D1375, Anyhow the Cambrian kits are far cheaper - and I’ve become a bit of a kit building addict, plus I get to customise, chose running numbers etc. However time to pack things away in the dining room ready for Xmas!

Noted  re tarp/sheets I had seen that before, plus I hope to include a couple of Parkside box vans in the rake.  I also need to get the final wagons in these rakes fitted with working tail lamps.

Neil 

Spot on! Have a great Christmas see you in the new year 

[Downendian]

First new year action - I had a dose of covid between Xmas and the new year, now negative but the wife is still positive and off work. Just mild cold like symptoms, but the pain was losing my sense of smell and taste, and as I enjoy cooking and we have a lot of fine wine and cheese from Xmas a minor inconvenience. However it is coming back.

 

six vanwides now near enough complete, more weathering to roofs needed (I’m not sure if I like those tide marks) and a coat or two of Matt varnish but they’ve come out rather well- must get the SLR out for these shots for better resolution, but will do so when they are on the layout. Transfers for these were taken from the Parkside kits and from modelmaster.

 

whilst wagons were in the spray booth I quickly put together a Parkside ex LNER plate wagon - if anyone is contemplating a go at kit building this one was really simple and was largely done between jobs in a day. Longest waits were for paint to dry. This will not be vac braked, so will need to run in an unfitted/part fitted rake which there were a few still about in the mid 1970s. Weathering was a bit more heavy on this one to represent an end of life wagon in this time period. I’ve yet to add rust spots and then Matt varnish. The deck probably needs more filth to be honest. Weighted with black sprayed tyre weights under the floor which are virtually invisible.

 

The final wagons of the clayliner rake have been started yesterday, five Cambrian dia D1375 five plankers which will all get S and E prefixes - numbers taken from Paul Bartlett’s site and railtec transfers ordered for bespoke wagon numbers. It will be a rake of 22 opens but with a couple of vans added. A near disaster yesterday evening when I spilt a near full pot (18ml) of poly cement when assembling the body of the first of these, but seems to have recovered the glue marks quite well with brush painted bauxite. I’ll try not to be such a clumsy git in future.

 

happy new year!

Neil 

[Phil Bullock]

1 hour ago, Downendian said:

First new year action - I had a dose of covid between Xmas and the new year, now negative but the wife is still positive and off work. Just mild cold like symptoms, but the pain was losing my sense of smell and taste, and as I enjoy cooking and we have a lot of fine wine and cheese from Xmas a minor inconvenience. However it is coming back.

 

six vanwides now near enough complete, more weathering to roofs needed (I’m not sure if I like those tide marks) and a coat or two of Matt varnish but they’ve come out rather well- must get the SLR out for these shots for better resolution, but will do so when they are on the layout. Transfers for these were taken from the Parkside kits and from modelmaster.

 

whilst wagons were in the spray booth I quickly put together a Parkside ex LNER plate wagon - if anyone is contemplating a go at kit building this one was really simple and was largely done between jobs in a day. Longest waits were for paint to dry. This will not be vac braked, so will need to run in an unfitted/part fitted rake which there were a few still about in the mid 1970s. Weathering was a bit more heavy on this one to represent an end of life wagon in this time period. I’ve yet to add rust spots and then Matt varnish. The deck probably needs more filth to be honest. Weighted with black sprayed tyre weights under the floor which are virtually invisible.

 

The final wagons of the clayliner rake have been started yesterday, five Cambrian dia D1375 five plankers which will all get S and E prefixes - numbers taken from Paul Bartlett’s site and railtec transfers ordered for bespoke wagon numbers. It will be a rake of 22 opens but with a couple of vans added. A near disaster yesterday evening when I spilt a near full pot (18ml) of poly cement when assembling the body of the first of these, but seems to have recovered the glue marks quite well with brush painted bauxite. I’ll try not to be such a clumsy git in future.

 

happy new year!

Neil 

Happy new year to you and Sharon  too Neil.

 

Sorry to hear you had the lurgy…. Teri and I both had horrible chest infections but Covid neg. just about over now but slayed modelling mojo. So back on wiring today….

 

Phil 

[Downendian]

Progress on the Clayliner rake today - brake rigging added to the  six (I found another lurking in the kit box) Cambrian dia 1375 13T opens - tested my sanity somewhat - but got there. The etched bits and wire need a coat of black paint, which is the next job, but will be hand painted. I often wonder if the huge amount of work put in beneath the floor is worth it- on balance I think yes, it captures the prototype much better than many RTR wagons. I had a go at weathering the wagon internals with kaolin - ok ish but a bit “gritty” for my liking, and still not enough - the prototype wagon internals looked almost whitewashed, and I’ve ordered some china clay weathering powders so see how they look before attacking the wagon bodies. 
I’d raided my now scrapped fleet of Hornby MSVs for wheels, however they are a smidgen oversize and foul the brake rigging so more will need to be ordered which are of a much finer appearance anyway. Buffers need adding plus the door bangs which are again a pig to fit but compared to the brake rigging is a relative cinch. Having built 20 Herrings and 6 of these from the Cambrian stable, I’ve concluded I’m not a fan of the preformed solebar/floor. The resultant running qualities are variable and I’d rather adjust using individually attached solebars the conventional kit building way.

The Parkside 1/039 and 1/044s are almost done just vac cylinders and pipe work to add on these. Then the fun of adding decals and weathering in earnest to take place, plus blackening random planks in addition to the data panels  and then 6V53 will live again. I can hopefully rekindle part of my youth seeing this train snake around my layout, and was a daily working we looked forward to as it almost always was a Western (or seemed so, rise tinted etc). I will need to make sure my Western/46/47 fleet is suitably headcoded for this working.

Neil 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Downendian
Photo edit

[Phil Bullock]

36 minutes ago, Downendian said:

Progress on the Clayliner rake today - brake rigging added to the  six (I found another lurking in the kit box) Cambrian dia 1375 13T opens - tested my sanity somewhat - but got there. The etched bits and wire need a coat of black paint, which is the next job, but will be hand painted. I often wonder if the huge amount of work put in beneath the floor is worth it- on balance I think yes, it captures the prototype much better than many RTR wagons. I had a go at weathering the wagon internals with kaolin - ok ish but a bit “gritty” for my liking, and still not enough - the prototype wagon internals looked almost whitewashed, and I’ve ordered some china clay weathering powders so see how they look before attacking the wagon bodies. 
I’d raided my now scrapped fleet of Hornby MSVs for wheels, however they are a smidgen oversize and foul the brake rigging so more will need to be ordered which are of a much finer appearance anyway. Buffers need adding plus the door bangs which are again a pig to fit but compared to the brake rigging is a relative cinch. Having built 20 Herrings and 6 of these from the Cambrian stable, I’ve concluded I’m not a fan of the preformed solebar/floor. The resultant running qualities are variable and I’d rather adjust using individually attached solebars the conventional kit building way.

The Parkside 1/039 and 1/044s are almost done just vac cylinders and pipe work to add on these. Then the fun of adding decals and weathering in earnest to take place, plus blackening random planks in addition to the data panels  and then 6V53 will live again. I can hopefully rekindle part of my youth seeing this train snake around my layout, and was a daily working we looked forward to as it almost always was a Western (or seemed so, rise tinted etc). I will need to make sure my Western/46/47 fleet is suitably headcoded for this working.

Neil 

Looking great Neil. As you say will look a really impressive train …. Hope we don’t get bounced too often with a 46 or 47! Did you make a decision on loaded or empty ? Oh hang on 6V53 got to be empties… 
 

Just got to park this one here although it is 6V06 the Wednesday lunch time extra, not the early morning 6V53

 

[Downendian]

Hi Phil, yes the Southbound working which was always late I seem to remember!

There was a fair bit of room on the floor of the Cambrian wagons to get 10g of lead underneath, they’re around 22g in weight - a bit on the light side but only running will tell if OK. I may consider the northbound loaded working at some point, but I’m increasingly getting the feeling that there’s more to railway modelling than building wagon kits!

Neil 

[Phil Bullock]

52 minutes ago, Downendian said:

Hi Phil, yes the Southbound working which was always late I seem to remember!

There was a fair bit of room on the floor of the Cambrian wagons to get 10g of lead underneath, they’re around 22g in weight - a bit on the light side but only running will tell if OK. I may consider the northbound loaded working at some point, but I’m increasingly getting the feeling that there’s more to railway modelling than building wagon kits!

Neil 

With luck someone will do the right wagons r-t-r. Know just what you mean about doing too much of any one job …. It’s wiring here at the moment , but it’s why I like to have a few different things on the go…. 

[Fat Controller]

26 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

With luck someone will do the right wagons r-t-r. Know just what you mean about doing too much of any one job …. It’s wiring here at the moment , but it’s why I like to have a few different things on the go…. 

I don't know if it's of any use, or interest, but I found some notes I made in1977/8 of part of the consist of a Clayliner at, I think, Cockshute, Stoke.

W144021 'OWV' roller brgs

B495151  oil axle-boxes

E311997 'OWV' Roller brgs

B491856  oil axle-boxes

B477069 OWV  roller brgs Pool 7401

B743626 UCV  oil axleboxes, Pool 7409

B481705          oil axle-boxes

B485197          oil axle boxes

 

 

[Downendian]

Terrific Brian thanks - the axle box situation is something I’m keen to model, all of these Cambrian wagons have had wizard models roller bearing axle boxes added as per photos of the period. These prototypical observations are like proverbial gold dust. 
Neil 

[Fat Controller]

3 hours ago, Downendian said:

Terrific Brian thanks - the axle box situation is something I’m keen to model, all of these Cambrian wagons have had wizard models roller bearing axle boxes added as per photos of the period. These prototypical observations are like proverbial gold dust. 
Neil 

I was struck by how many didn't have roller-bearings, or Pool numbers.

[Downendian]

Getting there - a fair few hours spent today applying decals and finishing the D1375 ex SR/LNER clayliners. Railtec bespoke numbers arrived mid-morning and were on six wagons within a couple of hours. US army Gothic yellow numerals was used for pool numbers (slightly too large, but smaller typeface on order), CCT transfers the rest although I’ve used some more 1970s data panels of other wagons from modelmaster to give a bit of variety. The railtec transfers from Steve - what an excellent service - ordered Thursday here this morning - 12 bespoke wagon numbers- will be using this again for sure. With hydraulic confusion creeping in plus ordering Siphon G numerals I made a mistake with one number, should have been S7013 - I ordered S1013.

 

Awaiting weathering powders, and a coat of Matt varnish - it’s amazing grabbing a cruel close up photo reveals some blemishes identified to be rectified tomorrow. Sorry for the rushed photo - under tungsten light and edited using my iPad software so the real thing doesn’t look quite so garish.  I’ve got all sets of door springs fitted, despite three pinging off into the carpet and search/rescue finding all OK. I’d prefer to fit finer buffers, but for 20 odd opens in this rake costs need to be kept down. There maybe no choice here however to put shorter buffers on to prevent buffer lock on the helix, a compromise I’ll have to accept, couplings yet to be fitted. Just one wagon shown here for clarity but all six at a similar stage.

 

[Phil Bullock]

Looking great Neil. You will have the definitive clay liner train. Must have been raining, that wagon looks pretty clean! 

[MJI]

Those look really good

[Downendian]

58 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Looking great Neil. You will have the definitive clay liner train. Must have been raining, that wagon looks pretty clean! 

Thanks, Still waiting for weathering powders Phil - hopefully early next week.

[Downendian]

And here’s an extreme weathering of the clayliner, D1070 on 6/8/76 on 6V53 originally posted in the dedicated clayliner thread. What an excellent photo by Suthensofty  on Flickr 

 

edit : I was at Winterbourne /Bristol Parkway all afternoon and evening that day- I must have missed it  in the morning.

 

edit edit - this image is my endearing memory of this  classic BR working, but perhaps on reflection the ghostly appearance of the wagons was extreme. The summer of 1976 was of course extremely dry- It hadn’t rained for 3 months. In our normal rainy climate  the wagons don’t appear quite so white in prototype photos with at least some of the original livery showing through, I hope to reflect this in my weathering.

 
Neil 
 

Edited January 15, 2023 by Downendian
Given in text

[Downendian]

I was unhappy with the D1375 buffers as supplied with the Cambrian kit, they look far too long and will undoubtedly give running problems when coupling with instanters. Whilst having to cope with door springs pinging off and brake hand levers whilst handling the wagon to fit, I’ve decided to fit Lanarkshire buffers of BR pattern to all six having done one this morning as a test. A much better result  I think, waiting for glue to cure then they will be painted. I’ll use Smiths Instanters on these wagons, slightly oversize but again the paranoia with running issues is the boss here. S1013 should be S7013! 
Brake rigging onto the remaining  1/039 Parksides (x12) this morning too, plus tax return done so busy!
 

Order placed with LMS for more buffers- I had 3 sets in stock, their additional weight will be a bonus of course.
Neil

[Phil Bullock]

2 hours ago, Downendian said:

I was unhappy with the D1375 buffers as supplied with the Cambrian kit, they look far too long and will undoubtedly give running problems when coupling with instanters. Whilst having to cope with door springs pinging off and brake hand levers whilst handling the wagon to fit, I’ve decided to fit Lanarkshire buffers of BR pattern to all six having done one this morning as a test. A much better result  I think, waiting for glue to cure then they will be painted. I’ll use Smiths Instanters on these wagons, slightly oversize but again the paranoia with running issues is the boss here. S1013 should be S7013! 
Brake rigging onto the remaining  1/039 Parksides (x12) this morning too, plus tax return done so busy!
 

Order placed with LMS for more buffers- I had 3 sets in stock, their additional weight will be a bonus of course.
Neil

Good move Neil…. LMS buffer are a standard fit on anything I build … top notch! 

[Enterprisingwestern]

5 minutes ago, Phil Bullock said:

Good move Neil…. LMS buffer are a standard fit on anything I build … top notch! 

 

Fully agree with the good Doctor, plastic buffers, no matter how well moulded, are faf, fragile as f***.

 

Mike.

[37403]

Fantastic progress on all the kits.

Do you experience any issues with the two solebars tightening over night as your liquid plastic sets causing the wheel sets to stiffen up?

It's a problem I have with kits quite a lot unfortunately 

[Downendian]

6 minutes ago, 37403 said:

Fantastic progress on all the kits.

Do you experience any issues with the two solebars tightening over night as your liquid plastic sets causing the wheel sets to stiffen up?

It's a problem I have with kits quite a lot unfortunately 

Hi 37403,

thanks for looking in - no not really - there is normally sufficient  “slop” in the bearings for this not to happen, which has been mostly true of Parkside models- main issue is to make sure the bearings are fully bedded in. If the solebars are too tight, then application of more  polystyrene cement to their inner faces, leave to soften and then they can be encouraged to move to get free spinning wheels. Same trick can be applied to incorrectly bedded bearings. Of course everything must be completely square.

 

The catfish wagons have been the biggest headache - the hopper must be completely square on the chassis structure otherwise it pushes the chassis out of true. I’ve had to remedy three of them because of it.

 

The preformed Cambrian chassis should be perfect, but both on the Herrings and the D1375s on several one axle is slightly stiff, however this was resolved on the Herrings at least by running in.

 

Today a bit of loco action- a long term resident on the workbench - my hybrid Bachmann-Hornby class 24/1 which has been test fit to a new generation Bachmann 24 chassis- some mods needed but good progress I think. I hope to post on this in the next few days. It started life well before the Bachmann model ever saw the light of day. It will be in green full yellow, a much neglected livery in my opinion.
 

Meanwhile the chore of fitting decals to the clayliner rake continues - about 2/3 the way through - takes an age especially lining up the pool numbers. The Hornby ex GWR/LMS 5 plankers have now all been fitted with Lanarkshire buffers as have all the Cambrian D1375s. Some weathering also happening to this rake.

 

Neil