Downendian details

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

Good job on the hoppers Neil, they certainly are a bit of a challenge!

 

Mike.

[Downendian]

Indeed Phil, some routine maintenance on the 6M55/52 rake over the next week. Very much looking forward to the Redditch show.

Neil

Edited January 29 by Downendian

[Downendian]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Good job on the hoppers Neil, they certainly are a bit of a challenge!

 

Mike.

Indeed they are a challenge Mike- I’ve built 26 of them now and just about got the right technique in this second batch. Easiest the toughest Parkside kit I’ve built, and more work than the Cambrian Herrings which I thought couldn’t be equalled in complexity of build. 
Neil

[Downendian]

Quite a lot has been happening on the workbench during February, 

21T hoppers -  a rake of 21 now for Stone traffic; a mix of vac fitted and unfitted 1/146 and rebodied versions. 1/100 ex LNER one rebodied - all unfitted wagons in grey livery; all Parkside kits. Will be a train of over 50% vac fitted and run as empties so 7B46/70 for Tytherington to Stoke Gifford empties or 7V45/7V38 empties from Redditch or Wolverton to Stoke Gifford. Photos of the type of rake I’m after are present on the Stoke Gifford history website. One shows the tail of an empty train and I was rather surprised to see a large number of LNER-braked but rebodied grey hoppers of which I’ve only built one - maybe a few more needed! 
Westerns - four now progressing, D1014; D1022; D1045 and D1059 name/numberplates and brake rigging applied, some preliminary weathering done - I’ve done them before but hopefully my weathering and modelling skills have improved somewhat after an extended wagon kit building period. All were seen in Bristol in summer 1974; but D1014 is a bit of a mystery - it was underlined in my 1974 combine, but was laid up at Laira minus its engines and transmissions by early August (data from the late Adrian Curtis), and laid up most of July awaiting a decision. I’m missing a few days spotting notes from that summer, but I do recall seeing her as Westerns were the number one target. However, there are photos of her active on a milk train approaching Plymouth in September 1974, which I think maybe an incorrect date, but possibly not? Was she briefly reinstated - seems unlikely. I’ll do a photo session with these as they progress further. What else would I put on my stone trains?

other wagons builds include Chivers MDOs and LMS 20T coal wagons for the STJ-Acton rake- just to give a bit more variety and hone my weathering techniques. 
I’ve also built a couple of the venerable airfix brake vans for my partially fitted rakes. Lovely kit that belies its age. For all rakes now I’m fitting train tech tail lights, but dispensing with their unrealistic LED, and replacing with tiny China-obtained red LEDs that fit in 12A models BR lamps which are hollow bodied - lovely 3D prints but still after 2-3 coats of white bleed light a little. Fitted so far is a Herring (the 21st wagon in my fleet, an ex LMS 5-plank wagon of my clayliner rake and two brake vans. The brake vans need a small amount of work including fitting Oleo buffers to one, order on its way from Lanarkshire, handrail painting (my least favourite job)and transfers . Apologies for the fuzzy edges to this photo - my phone camera didn’t like the flickering tail lights!

Neil

[Phil Bullock]

Great progress Neil. Hope we can run them at Winchcombe in July…. 

[Downendian]

I thought I’d give a more detailed look at my Tytherington 21T hopper rake as it’s now nearing completion. I’ve just given the handrails a coat of white primer, and been round twice with a fine detail brush touching up bauxite/grey/black- still more to do especially on hopper levers/brake handle ends. Weathering to start in earnest hopefully next week. It totals 21 Parkside kit built wagons, the rake limited in size by my passing loop, here are some of the variants.

Two rebodied HOP21VB/HOP21HTV, one with one round of weathering diag 1/146

next a original body HOP21 (unfitted) and another HOP21HTV, many unfitted hoppers were in bauxite livery which I’m assuming was a mid 1970s thing; Paul Bartlett’s site has a few examples 

 

a rebodied 1/100 LNER braked example and an original body. Many wagons photographed at Stoke Gifford in these trains were of the rebodied LNER brake variety with trademark “high” brake lever, both with grey and bauxite livery- both unfitted.

two unfitted grey livery HOP21 which will be included in the tail (non vac braked) part of the train. The Parkside transfers were utilised for these two.

 

two vac fitted original body HOP21VB/HTVs - an easy adaptation of the Parkside kit by adding end stanchions, vac cylinder and pipe work

And finally another Rebody 1/146 and a airfix brake van modified with roller bearings and Lanarkshire 13” Oleo buffers complete with Stone branding.

the chances of getting correct running numbers for the rake are effectively zero -so I’ve used some artistic license! The brake van was WR allocated and I don’t know if it had stone branding, I’ve just shamelessly utilised a photo from the Kier Hardy EM gauge site to copy, As always transfers are from the excellent Railtec range, and thanks to Steve for his patience in printing all those TOPS transition era panels. By the mid 1970s 21T hoppers were in diminished use, being replaced by vac fitted MSVs and eventually air braked PGAs; all trains of which were operated by Westerns and Bath road allocated brush 4s. Very fond memories of particularly the Westerns in Stoke Gifford yard growling away shunting these rakes around as the empties were stored there.
Weathering to be done next, then all will get a coat of varnish, then running trials.Having built over 30 Parkside kits (and very time consuming and challenging they are too) I’m waiting for the inevitable  release of these much needed RTR wagons from Accurascale. Never mind if they do- they’ll be very welcome as I need more for the ISC smelter coke trains from South Wales.
Neil 

 

 

 

Edited March 16 by Downendian
Typo

[John Tomlinson]

On 09/02/2023 at 14:40, Downendian said:

With the modelling mojo fully restored, I can’t just sit back waiting on the postie for new clayliner wagon kits to arrive. After excellent service from Jenni and Georgina at Bachmann spares a little parcel arrived with Bachmann class 24 underframes - purchased with the intention of upgrading some 24s and more importantly my large Bachmann 25 fleet. This one has a long history - it started over 10 years ago and features in the earliest postings on this thread. The bodyshell is a Hornby cab/Bachmann 24 body which is still very much a live project. This morning I fitted the light surrounds (some brass etched washers I had in the spares box which were the perfect size), and I’ll need to work on a solution for the lights. The Hornby cabs had their horn cowls surgically removed to represent the headcode box 24 and 25/0 locos. That roof fan is going for a replacement from Shawplan. There’s still more prep to do though before getting painted, traces of filler evident and still some sanding to do.

 

The Bachmann underframes are a decent fit - not perfect at the cab ends, but with me needing to fettle a new cab floor they will lose any gaps by screwing the frame to it. The quite drastic surgery has meant the body is not a perfect fit too (about 1mm too short) but difficult to spot unless you’re told. I can’t wait for the new Bachmann 25 to arrive - I’m sure to buy a few chassis underframes as spares. With a bit of fettling I’m certain they can be attached to first generation Bachmann 24s and 25s which I’m not (yet) considering selling,

 

I also dismantled a first generation Bachmann 25 chassis to test for fit to the new Bachmann subframe- achieving loss of the erroneous solebar and getting some fantastic looking water/fuel tanks in one swoop, I purchased the 24 frame with weight block and the bad news is that the old Bachmann motors and bogies won’t fit the new ones. The motor flywheels are too large, and the mounting points of the bogies are incompatible with the version 1 bogies. So for this old model I’m going to treat it to a new motor, bogies and perhaps even a PCB which  in total will cost around £120. However the up side this one will become 24 136 in GFYE complete with snow ploughs - one of the first 24s I saw in visits to Crewe in 1975 when it was still in service. My only other route to this as a model is a repaint of a green new generation Bachmann 24 - not the cheapest of options.

 

I have a strange affection for class 25/0s too, intention is to produce at least two for the layout. On my frequent reminiscing of my spotting notes I noticed that in early April 1975 two 25/0s 005 and 016 were copped on Bath road on the same day. I obviously didn’t think much of it at the time as they were infrequent visitors to the WR, those two were then Tinsley allocated, so I’d love to know what service they arrived on - I assume they were double headed to see two at once. I will of course need to remove the water tanks from the chassis as 25/0s were NB.

 

I've just been reading through the last few pages of this thread, and wondered if you'd reached any further answers about the Class 25 underframes.

 

Like you, I have several of the first edition of the Bachmann 25's, and whilst reading through the Jim S-W creation of a new scratchbuild, never actually faced up to doing one. I hadn't twigged that Bachmann's updated 25 had corrected this error, and that the new moulding might be an answer. Looking at the Bachmann Spares website there seem to be a range of these now available, but it isn't possible to tell if the old chassis block and mechanisms will transfer. Obviously you've found the one with the weight block doesn't work, but I wonder if you or indeed anyone else had tried any of the others.

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

John.

[Downendian]

29 minutes ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

I've just been reading through the last few pages of this thread, and wondered if you'd reached any further answers about the Class 25 underframes.

 

Like you, I have several of the first edition of the Bachmann 25's, and whilst reading through the Jim S-W creation of a new scratchbuild, never actually faced up to doing o. I hadn't twigged that Bachmann's updated 25 had corrected this error, and that the new moulding might be an answer. Looking at the Bachmann Spares website there seem to be a range of these now available, but it isn't possible to tell if the old chassis block and mechanisms will transfer. Obviously you've found the one with the weight block doesn't work, but I wonder if you or indeed anyone else had tried any of the others.

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

John.

Hi John

my 24 136 is a Hornby/Bachmann hybrid on a New generation Bachmann 24 chassis. With a bit of surgery on the Bachmann body mould mounts it fits. Re the old chassis block, yes I’ve had a good look - in short they don’t fit. The motor and cradle are of a different design, but there are some possibilities using the new underframes fitting the old chassis but not without significant surgery to the frame and the (old) chassis weight. The mounting points body/chassis v1/v2 are different, but only just. I’ve bought a fair number of the class 24 underframes for this very reason, but not moved this forward yet. I have a large fleet of Bachmann v1 25s and loathe to sell them although I have a SLW one on order.

Neil

 

[John Tomlinson]

1 hour ago, Downendian said:

Hi John

my 24 136 is a Hornby/Bachmann hybrid on a New generation Bachmann 24 chassis. With a bit of surgery on the Bachmann body mould mounts it fits. Re the old chassis block, yes I’ve had a good look - in short they don’t fit. The motor and cradle are of a different design, but there are some possibilities using the new underframes fitting the old chassis but not without significant surgery to the frame and the (old) chassis weight. The mounting points body/chassis v1/v2 are different, but only just. I’ve bought a fair number of the class 24 underframes for this very reason, but not moved this forward yet. I have a large fleet of Bachmann v1 25s and loathe to sell them although I have a SLW one on order.

Neil

 

 

That's very helpful, thanks!

 

I shall have to buy a new underframe and have a go. At least it will tell me whether I've the determination to do the rest, or not.  I'm not really sure how many I've got, seem to remember they were something like £35 - 40 a pop, so probably quite a few.

 

John.

[12A Models]

On 07/03/2024 at 15:45, Downendian said:

Quite a lot has been happening on the workbench during February, 

21T hoppers -  a rake of 21 now for Stone traffic; a mix of vac fitted and unfitted 1/146 and rebodied versions. 1/100 ex LNER one rebodied - all unfitted wagons in grey livery; all Parkside kits. Will be a train of over 50% vac fitted and run as empties so 7B46/70 for Tytherington to Stoke Gifford empties or 7V45/7V38 empties from Redditch or Wolverton to Stoke Gifford. Photos of the type of rake I’m after are present on the Stoke Gifford history website. One shows the tail of an empty train and I was rather surprised to see a large number of LNER-braked but rebodied grey hoppers of which I’ve only built one - maybe a few more needed! 
Westerns - four now progressing, D1014; D1022; D1045 and D1059 name/numberplates and brake rigging applied, some preliminary weathering done - I’ve done them before but hopefully my weathering and modelling skills have improved somewhat after an extended wagon kit building period. All were seen in Bristol in summer 1974; but D1014 is a bit of a mystery - it was underlined in my 1974 combine, but was laid up at Laira minus its engines and transmissions by early August (data from the late Adrian Curtis), and laid up most of July awaiting a decision. I’m missing a few days spotting notes from that summer, but I do recall seeing her as Westerns were the number one target. However, there are photos of her active on a milk train approaching Plymouth in September 1974, which I think maybe an incorrect date, but possibly not? Was she briefly reinstated - seems unlikely. I’ll do a photo session with these as they progress further. What else would I put on my stone trains?

other wagons builds include Chivers MDOs and LMS 20T coal wagons for the STJ-Acton rake- just to give a bit more variety and hone my weathering techniques. 
I’ve also built a couple of the venerable airfix brake vans for my partially fitted rakes. Lovely kit that belies its age. For all rakes now I’m fitting train tech tail lights, but dispensing with their unrealistic LED, and replacing with tiny China-obtained red LEDs that fit in 12A models BR lamps which are hollow bodied - lovely 3D prints but still after 2-3 coats of white bleed light a little. Fitted so far is a Herring (the 21st wagon in my fleet, an ex LMS 5-plank wagon of my clayliner rake and two brake vans. The brake vans need a small amount of work including fitting Oleo buffers to one, order on its way from Lanarkshire, handrail painting (my least favourite job)and transfers . Apologies for the fuzzy edges to this photo - my phone camera didn’t like the flickering tail lights!

Neil

Hi. The lamp bodies aren’t intended to have nano LEDs fitted inside. This will result in a light that is far too bright. They are intended for use with fibre optic cable illuminated from a LED inside the van. This will give a small red dot light rather than a red glow.

[Downendian]

Thanks 12A - just a quick note to say I fully endorse your product, they’re lovely lamps.

i didn’t go down the fibre optic route for the two brake vans because I didn’t want anything visible between the cabin doors and the verandah. Instead the LED wires are routed underneath the chassis with the wires attached to the rear of the verandah end, not very visible at all. It is an option for the Herring and china clay wagon though, plus I have some parcels and 12T vans to work on. Instead I intend dimming the LEDs on all of them with resistors, because as you say they are too bright.

Neil 

[Downendian]

Western time. I’ve accumulated a rather large fleet of both Dapol and Heljan Westerns over the years. Choosing the prototype is difficult because I have many fond memories of them with their workings in the Bristol area. The ones I settled on here are D1001; D1014; D1016; D1022; D1045 and D1059. I’m going though the process of fitting the detailing packs, and fitting proper screw couplings. All have accurascale crew plus prototypical headcodes for a variety of trains that worked through Bristol in the early/mid 1970s. Those shown here include both the up and down clayliner, Redditch-Stoke Gifford stone empties, Stoke-Gifford-Tytherington stone and STJ-Acton all class 52 known workings. Three have been fitted with sound chips and all test run only one needs some attention, D1059.

the headcodes are all precision labels and make a significant difference to the woefully undersize (and wrong font in some characters) offerings provided by Dapol which go in the bin! I’m short of a few bits and pieces including wipers and pipes which were absent from secondhand purchases, unfortunately spares are now in short supply. I’ve yet to fit the lifting rings which is not a job I’m looking forward to having recently done a Hymek, but I have a few of the Kernow weathered examples which have these fitted. 
I’m gradually weathering them, first starting with the wheels and under frames and then lastly to the bodies and roof after the lifting rings are fitted. A very time consuming task, but thoroughly enjoyable, and one I refuse to rush.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 07:50 by Downendian
Comment on font

[12A Models]

5 hours ago, Downendian said:

Thanks 12A - just a quick note to say I fully endorse your product, they’re lovely lamps.

i didn’t go down the fibre optic route for the two brake vans because I didn’t want anything visible between the cabin doors and the verandah. Instead the LED wires are routed underneath the chassis with the wires attached to the rear of the verandah end, not very visible at all. It is an option for the Herring and china clay wagon though, plus I have some parcels and 12T vans to work on. Instead I intend dimming the LEDs on all of them with resistors, because as you say they are too bright.

Neil 

Thanks for your kind words Neil! Glad you like them. I do a similar thing with my 21T brakes. I bend the fibre optic, run it down the rear of the verndah wall and take it under the floor and then back up and into the van body where the LED housing is. I always have immense difficulty soldering those nano LEDs.......

Edited Thursday at 15:52 by 12A Models

[Halvarras]

7 hours ago, Downendian said:

I’ve yet to fit the lifting rings which is not a job I’m looking forward to having recently done a Hymek, but I have a few of the Kernow weathered examples which have these fitted.

 

 

Oh no, not the dreaded Dapol lifting rings?! I finally got around to adding these to Bachmann Class 43 D865 (now D840) and Dapol Western a few months ago. With a fine wire 'tool' the Warship was fairly straightforward and I didn't need to use any of the four spares provided - they pass through the roof so I secured them from inside with Glue n Glaze PVA adhesive. Then I got D1056 Western Sultan out.......metal and tiny, they don't project into the body so no internal gluing, and no spares - seriously?!* I created another tool - a drill bit small enough to fit through the hole in the lifting ring embedded in the end of a cotton bud stem, but despite switching to superglue for speed and my best efforts it was a 'mare - one inevitably vanished after I thought I'd secured it and had to be replaced with one of the Warship's spares. I then moved on to a second Western but although I've fitted D1012 with cab vents (A1 Models Class 24 etched cab roof vents) so far I've resisted the temptation to fit those darn rings, thus avoiding another outbreak of blue air in my modelling den. (And I thought melting the etched lamp irons into the ends of Heljan Westerns with a soldering iron was dodgy!!) D1056 is 1967 and D1012 1974 so they won't be seen together, that's my excuse. By the way, I discovered that the  footsteps below the cab doors can be fitted if the bogie-fitted dangling pipework on the secondman's corners is removed - there's just enough bogie swing clearance. Depends on one's track curvature and priorities....... I also found the brake rodding can snag on the air tanks behind the bufferbeam, solved with some minor trimming.

(Since you are well versed in details I take it you are aware of D1045's peculiarity......?)

 

*I believe recent releases come with spare lifting rings.......?

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

https://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/class-52-oo-lifting-eye-fret/

 

Mike.

[MJI]

1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

https://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/class-52-oo-lifting-eye-fret/

 

Mike.

Are they still selling as shop has shut.

[Downendian]

1 hour ago, MJI said:

Are they still selling as shop has shut.

No they’re not - I’ve recently purchased 3 sets direct from Dapol - the cheapest option.

[Downendian]

11 hours ago, Halvarras said:

 

(Since you are well versed in details I take it you are aware of D1045's peculiarity......?)

oooh no I don’t off the top of my head, without resorting to reference books. I know that D1045 was plagued with electrical issues, and was often used for Royal train duties I guess before these materialised. I’d for sure like to know.

I’m gearing up for some variety in the 52 fleet D1026, D1029 and D1040 which lacked headboard clips (D1040 one end) which will most likely require a respray. D1026 I’m going to do in a Laira late repaint with silver footsteps and little weathering, looked stunning when I first saw her in the summer of 1974. Also very good idea to use the class 24 cab vents, I have a set I think from Craftsman as D1012 or D1056 are candidates.

 

*I believe recent releases come with spare lifting rings.......?

Great tips on the lifting rings- I think I’ve sourced enough- the Bachmann warship rings are easier to work with as I found whilst working on D7029. I threaded them on fishing line to keep them from wandering and positioning in place. Those Kernow weathered examples are a great starting point as they already have them fitted, and capture the roof profile much better hence why I think it’s worth doing all of them!

 

[MJI]

9 hours ago, Downendian said:

No they’re not - I’ve recently purchased 3 sets direct from Dapol - the cheapest option.

 

I used to use them as they WERE my local model shop.

 

I got my Baby Warship from there.

[Halvarras]

Perhaps not surprisingly when you consider the Western's cab windscreen design and what happens to the scooped airflow, the Class was subject to various windscreen wiper experiments to try to alleviate the problem of them lifting at speed. Most of these were applied to more than one example, but D1045 got one all to itself - the secondman's side wipers were moved from the top of the screens to a central position at the bottom - a modification it carried to the end, unlike the other test subjects. Why the secondman's side and not the driver's is a good question - perhaps the experiment was to see whether the low wiper positioning one side would reduce the pressure on the other and keep the driver's blade on the screen. While the other experiments involved additional equipment which would later be removed, D1045's arrangement probably survived because it was a simple change and only on the secondman's side, so didn't affect the driver's primary field of vision. Just educated guessing though!

 

I'll leave you to decide how best to cope with that on the model!

 

Regarding D1026's 1974 Laira repaint, I managed to photograph this at Reading on 29th June 1974, clearly just out of Laira as the exhaust soot on the roof only went one way! Only very much later would I discover that, had the loco been the other way round, I would have immediately noticed that it was missing its BR double-arrow logo! (That may not be good news either if Dapol printing is difficult to budge, but it wasn't long collecting a logo so there's an escape clause!)

Also I note that D1001 is on your Western list, I have a question mark over this one as somewhere in my spotting notes around 1973/4 I made a remark that it was missing a number plate! I think this was in Cornwall and never seeing it like this again and with no confirmation from elsewhere I'm wondering whether the plate was only absent for that one day and was refitted upon D1001's return to Laira. A point of interest, safely ignored for your purposes (unless you happen to lose a number plate.....😜!)