Kirkcaldy area

[Lochty no more]

i'm repeating myself, but fantastic pics again!

 

i automatically thought the invertiel viaduct pic was looking west, but it's actually looking east

 

modern google streetview

 

looking at 1943 25-inch OS map at nls, this used to be the kirkcaldy steam laundry

Keefer on the ball as always,

61219 Roseburry Terrace on special, class 05 in foreground - 3 trains for the price of one

[jeff mcghie]

I'm trying to match some of these photos to the current day.

 

The one above is taken from the bridge looking back towards the station?

The one that's really puzzling me is in post 107 (page 4) titled Gresley steel full brake at Kirkcaldy station? Is this looking across the Down side yard towards Forth avenue? Surely not as the houses are older than blue/grey era? Could it be up towards Nairns factories at Sinclairtown??

 

jeff.

[Ian Kirk]

Hi Jeff,

The last photo was from Rosebury Terrace bridge looking back towards the station. I think that without the smoke you would have been able to see Bennochy Bridge. The Hunslet is in the headshunt, the goods is in the down loop and the B1 is on the down main. On the other side of the bridge the cutting was four tracks wide.

The photo of the blue Gresley brake was taken over the wall just down from Bennochy bridge and looks out over the down yard you can see Buchanan and Young's distinctive Coal depot which has appeared in other photos. Amazing how much has changed, now a car park and a row of trees (now quite big trees) and of course no factories.

 

best wishes,

 

Ian

[keefer]

Is this looking across the Down side yard towards Forth avenue? Surely not as the houses are older than blue/grey era?

jeff.

 

the houses on forth avenue were there and still are - but you can't see them in the photo because of the factories between the yard and forth avenue itself.

where these factories were, is now landscaped with grass and trees.

 

good view on OS map (1940s): http://maps.nls.uk/os/25inch-2nd-and-later/view/?jp2=82881867#jp2=82881867&zoom=5&lat=8691.5&lon=10632&layers=BT

 

looking at the landscaped bits today, there doesn't seem to have been much 'width' to accommodate factories there, although i suppose the roadway on forth avenue has probably been widened since.

Edited December 13, 2012 by keefer

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Does anyone mind that I did a wee bit of work to bring out the detail in Pete's photo of the Gresley full brake?

 

[keefer]

any guesses at a date for that pic - maybe 1968/9?

 

i don't suppose that mk1 BGs would be too quick into b/g and there's also a lined maroon one. when did the gresley full brakes last until?

Edited December 13, 2012 by keefer

[jamesmc]

http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=liverpoolst&item=892

 

One from the NRM archive.

[jeff mcghie]

Would that (the NRM photo) be looking across the Down yard toward Burntisland with the block in the background where the nursing school is now?

 

 

Thanks for the map link Keefer, that make it much clearer. I've driven along Forth Ave a thousand time but never considered that there would have once been buildings there.

 

Jeff.

[Graham R]

Would that (the NRM photo) be looking across the Down yard toward Burntisland with the block in the background where the nursing school is now?

 

Yes I think so, or rather just north of it - where the car park is now next the station on the north side of the roundabout. It must be more or less across the railway from the museum. The mill on the right in the photo is named as "Caledonia Works (Floorcloth and Linoleum)" on the 1938 Ordnance Survey - what's interesting is the disused-looking siding to the mill, crossing the setts to serve the loading dock... this is not shown on either the 1938 or 1962 1:2500 surveys, although the mills which lined the west side of the station yard seem to have been linked internally by a wee tramway, presumably something with hand-propelled hutches. Any of the Lang Touners on here remember it?

 

Anyway, great find Jamesmc, thank very much for posting the link!

 

Graham

[asarnot]

http://www.nrm.org.u...poolst&item=892

 

One from the NRM archive.

That's a great picture, and very atmospheric. You can just see the entrance to the down platform at the extreme left. The building across the road with the portico entrance was I think Barry's original boardroom, but I am open to correction on this. I seem to recall that the siding containing the string of vans at one time extended across the road into the pend next to the pillared entrance. Perhaps the OS maps would show this. The wooden 'shack' on the nearside of the road was a tobacconist and newsagent's premises, the prominent sign on the side being for 'Craven A' cigarettes. He also sold sweets and crisps which fortified us on trips to Burntisland swimming pool. It looks as if the crane is loading 3 trailers in rotation, probably destined for Barry's power station, which was situated round the corner in Forth Avenue South, and burnt low grade 'duff'. The modern looking building with the steel window frames had something to do with the use of wood flour in the preparation of linoleum, and that corner was often covered inwhite dust which blew about on windy days. There was also much boiling of linseed oil in these premises, which gave Kirkcaldy its distinctive aroma. Note also the horse waiting patiently with its load, and the old Bedford next to the row of mineral wagons.

What a great shot - but how come it is included in a series of photos of Liverpool Street and environs?

Andy.

[keefer]

what's interesting is the disused-looking siding to the mill, crossing the setts to serve the loading dock... this is not shown on either the 1938 or 1962 1:2500 surveys

 

Graham

 

had a look again at nls maps and found it on the 1896 OS map - notice how it crosses the cobbled road and ends near the corner, but doesn't actually go into the works

 

fantastic find jamesmc and fantastic info graham and andy

 

just when i think this topic is slowing down, someone finds something else to get it going again!

excellent work guys

[Graham R]

Just a thought on Lochty's post of Pete Westwater's photos (which are just great - please keep them coming Lochty!) ... the very nice overhead shot of the three-way points/tandems is surely not at Dysart? I think it's more likely to be the neck of the down yard at Kirkcaldy station... the piping bridge looks the same as the one in the photo of the Down starting signal and the shots are probably taken from the Bennochy Road overbridge?

 

Anyway I think it's a nice shot for two reasons: it shows interlaced timbering around the crossings very clearly, something not always easy to find photos of; and the right-hand tandem seems to manage just fine without a crossing check-rail on the right-hand road, in spite of the sharp curve! You would have thought this is precisely where you couldn't do without it! Prototype for everything... thanks to Jim Watt (who models this kind of thing in 2mm finescale) for spotting it.

[Wizard of the Moor]

61219 Roseburry Terrace on special, class 05 in foreground - 3 trains for the price of one

 

Only photo of a Class 05 bonnet top that I've ever seen. Nice!

[asarnot]

Just a thought on Lochty's post of Pete Westwater's photos (which are just great - please keep them coming Lochty!) ... the very nice overhead shot of the three-way points/tandems is surely not at Dysart? I think it's more likely to be the neck of the down yard at Kirkcaldy station... the piping bridge looks the same as the one in the photo of the Down starting signal and the shots are probably taken from the Bennochy Road overbridge?

 

Anyway I think it's a nice shot for two reasons: it shows interlaced timbering around the crossings very clearly, something not always easy to find photos of; and the right-hand tandem seems to manage just fine without a crossing check-rail on the right-hand road, in spite of the sharp curve! You would have thought this is precisely where you couldn't do without it! Prototype for everything... thanks to Jim Watt (who models this kind of thing in 2mm finescale) for spotting it.

 

I agree Graham, and I seem to recall that the concrete hut on the right was located at Kirkcaldy and not Dysart. A quick swatch at Keefer's O/S map would seem to show only two tracks through Balsusney Road Cutting. Were the down goods loop and retaining wall added after 1896?

Edited December 16, 2012 by asarnot

[keefer]

goods loop and headshunt appear on the 1913 OS map, though when they actually were put in, i don't know

 

the same map also shows the two 3-ways here

 

also shown are a trailing connections between up/down mains and from the down loop-down main (on the other side of bennochy bridge).

the up main also has a facing connection onto the up loop right at bennochy bridge.

these aren't present by sometime in the 50s (on a 1:2500 map on old-maps.co.uk)

Edited December 16, 2012 by keefer

[beast66606]

and the right-hand tandem seems to manage just fine without a crossing check-rail on the right-hand road, in spite of the sharp curve! You would have thought this is precisely where you couldn't do without it! Prototype for everything... thanks to Jim Watt (who models this kind of thing in 2mm finescale) for spotting it.

 

There are the remains of a continuous checkrail visible, looking at the rail heads I suspect the right hand line is out of use (temporarily or otherwise)

[stevecs]

Just a couple of images that I can add to the topic.

 

As you can see from the Sinclairtown one this is a scan of a very old postcard. Notice the spelling of Sinclairtown and also note the position of the station. I am led to believe that this is from the very early 1900's and the station at this time was on the other side of the road bridge (where all the sidings ended up) from where what is left of the old booking office of the latter station that was closed and subsequently burned down not long afterwards.

 

the other image doesnt show much apart from some of the work that was being carried out at Kirkcaldy station when it was being renovated. I'm not sure on the date of that one either.

[Lawrence]

Have found this fascinating, and I had a look at the maps and found the line the ran past Viewforth high school (I stayed in Ravenscraig St at the time and used to walk along Lady Nairn to get to school) little did I know that West of St Clair St was the Rosslyn works and what looks like a really good modelling opportunity http://tinyurl.com/bw69t66 as a spotty youth though I had not yet discovered an interest in trains, sticking mainly to rugby & girls! I should think it was pretty run down in the mid to late 70's, I shouldn't think there was any steam still running either

Steve, I must have walked past Sinclairtown station so many times, on my way to Scoonie hobbies, and never realised it existed!

[stevecs]

ILawrence

 

I was surprised when I found out the original station was on the other side but old maps on the NLS site support this. the final station that was just the other side of the bridge closed in 1967 if I remember correctly and apparently "Burned down" shortly after. what is left can e seen here https://maps.google.com/?ll=56.123897,-3.141835&spn=88.702038,270.527344&t=w&z=3&layer=c&panoid=SD6kfXTVvrSFymnyEbEOgA&cbll=56.123897,-3.141835&cbp=13,90.2981485126176,,1,2.836141085897509 You can just make out where the windows/doors etc were bricked up

 

If you go round the side you can see still the outline of the stairwells that took you down from the booking office to the platforms

Edited December 17, 2012 by stevecs

['CHARD]

Sinclairtown from the Railscot resources, while we're here:

 

http://www.railbrit....te.php?id=23320

http://www.railbrit....te.php?id=16002

Edited December 17, 2012 by 'CHARD

[asarnot]

Re Steve's photo and query regarding rebuilding of Kirkcaldy station, please see my post #30, way back on page 2 of this thread. Work was carried out during summer of 1964. I note the ticket inspector is in Steve's photo too! This topic has certainly got the old brain cogs creaking into motion, and Pete's pic of 'Glen Douglas' at Thornton sparked a few memories. A thorough search of the shoebox in the wardrobe turned up these. I reckon the date was 10 June 1962, and the railtour was taken on to Leslie and perhaps Methil by the cleanest J38 I've ever seen. Wasn't aware that Pete was into colour photography at this stage, but my efforts attached. The tarpaulin covered wagons in the goods loop are a point of reference.

[stevecs]

 

 

Thanks for the info on the date I missed that when I first read the thread.

 

Would this have been the rail tour that there is film footage of? I believe it's on Scottish Byways part 2? It shows a railtour coming from St Andrews along the Leven and East Fife line then running round at Kirkland and coming back through Methil along the Methil branch line back upto the Thornton and then onwards?

[Lochty no more]

Re Steve's photo and query regarding rebuilding of Kirkcaldy station, please see my post #30, way back on page 2 of this thread. Work was carried out during summer of 1964. I note the ticket inspector is in Steve's photo too! This topic has certainly got the old brain cogs creaking into motion, and Pete's pic of 'Glen Douglas' at Thornton sparked a few memories. A thorough search of the shoebox in the wardrobe turned up these. I reckon the date was 10 June 1962, and the railtour was taken on to Leslie and perhaps Methil by the cleanest J38 I've ever seen. Wasn't aware that Pete was into colour photography at this stage, but my efforts attached. The tarpaulin covered wagons in the goods loop are a point of reference.

Peter has some photo`s in his archive of the Leslie railtour, allow me

64616 heading for Leslie

64616 ontour to Leslie

64616 at Thornton Junction

64616 at what is now Glenrothes

[Ian Kirk]

Hi,

Some wonderfully evocative stuff coming up now. I particularly liked the NRM photo (taken presumably from half way up one of the lighting poles). 1955, notice how new some of the 16T minerals looked. The door you pointed out Andy did lead to Barry's Boardroom but also offices. My maternal Grandfather was Office manager after the war (He had worked in the West but their house was destroyed in the Clydebank Blitz. He evacuated his family to relatives in Fife and moved through when two of his children married Fifers). I remember going with my Grandmother (in foxfur and hat) to meet him there to allow him to take us for Afternoon Tea in the Carleton Tea Rooms.

There were several Rail tours involving Glen Douglas and we probably always tried to photograph at least one part. The J37 photos were of a later tour, lessons learned. On another tour Glen Douglas worked the train into Leslie, managed to round the coaches OK but was unable to lift them out of the station and over the Leslie viaduct. Working tender first the sanders didn't help and she slipped terribly. As continuing this might have damaged the loco (or even the viaduct)they had to wait until a J38 was sent from Thornton to pull them back to Markinch. I have photos of one tour round the Coast headed by a J37. The Glen had worked the train to Thornton and took it off again later.

Someone asked if Thornton should be included in the "Kirkcaldy" Area. If it is I think that we will find lots of material. I was already thinking how much of Kirkcaldy's railway had gone and what some of you young chaps have missed. In the late 50s /60s we thought that Thornton was like the centre of the universe. The station itself, Junction in both directions a triangle plus a branch, acres of sidings and loops, Balgonie Colliery,a wagon works, an MPD with an allocation of over 100 locos, a "new" colliery (which admittedly never really worked) and "modern" hump yard. Could not imagine the Railway working without it. Not much left now.

best wishes,

 

Ian

[Graham R]

If we're going to Thornton we should at least stop off for a moment at Muir's (first? their Sinclairtown operation featured earlier in the thread) scrapyard on the road from Kirkcaldy... I'm sure someone has much better images than these so they are just to encourage the rest of you! I can't remember the date but I would guess around 1975/6...

 

 

 

 

Five years before that, I remember NCB No 10 working away cheerfully at Wellesley coal preparation plant at Methil ... while WPR No 17, in the background of the third shot, was by 1970 parked out of use while WPR 19 and 20 did the little remaining work after the Michael colliery disaster. A couple of years ago I saw No 17 on the Strathspey reincarnated as "Benriach", in a smart dark green livery. It looked great, and I was just delighted to see it in steam after a mere forty years, but I did have a pang of regret it wasn't in that lined chocolate WPR livery. Lovely engine.

 

Can anyone fill in the history of the other locos, and for that matter, why Muir's got into the business of scrap colliery pugs?

 

Graham

 

[Edit the morning after, to remove (or at least reduce) havering... Braeriach not Benriach ... WPR = Wemyss Private Railway ... ]

Edited December 18, 2012 by Graham R