Starting from a station with no signal in view: Merseyrail

[Jim Martin]

Being out and about the other day, I found myself at Kirkby station waiting for a train back into Liverpool. Kirkby is at the end of one of the branches of the Merseyrail Northern Line: the platform has been divided into two, the Liverpool end is electrified, the "country" end isn't and is served by diesel trains (from Wigan, in this case). There's no rail connection between the two: it's operated as two termini back-to-back.

 

What surprised me is that there doesn't appear to be any signal in the driver's view when his train is standing in the platform. This photo was taken from adjacent to the cab of the 3-car train in the platform:

 

 

You can see the speed restriction sign, but there's no signal in sight. Sooo... how does the driver know it's ok to set off (along a single track section) without a signal indication to tell him?

 

Jim

[PaulRhB]

By the indication of the previous signal There can't be another train in section as the section signal was cleared for him to enter the section. It's not uncommon on single lines where stations have no loop. Sometimes you'll find a signal at only one end as the station is at the end of the section but within the section rather than having it's own station limits between two sections.

If its a long section you can have stops mid section and you'd expect a distant signal before the next main aspect to allow time to control the speed. The rule book means he cannot change direction unless he contacts the Signalman and gets permission, his authority is for the direction of travel only.

 

Couple of examples

[MarkC]

Paul, Kirkby's the 'End of the line' these days, as per Jim's OP. I do like your sketches & explanation of possible scenarios though

 

So,the end of that line's operated on the 'one engine in steam' basis, I would think...

 

As an aside, I was on the very last passenger train to pass through Kirkby - the 'Liverpool Exchange Farewell' trip from Exchange, through Kirkby to Wigan Wallgate, then onto the WCML & then back to Liverpool Lime Street. May 1977, iirc?

 

Very sad, really. That line was, in its day, the L&Y's route from Liverpool to Manchester & points East...

 

Mark

[Robert Shrives]

The south end of Birmingham cross city is just the same, a single line starter/ section signal at Barnt Green to get on single line and then nothing for 4 miles to Redditch and on way back first signal is a distant at Barnt Green on the way back with a stop signal protecting Barnt green. and this with a half hourly service.

Robert Shrives

[beast66606]

I think FlyingSignalman will be able to give chapter and verse on this - as he's a signalman at Sandhills IECC, which controls the line.

 

I think it's one engine in steam with track circuits proving the train arrives and departs correctly

[melmerby]

The south end of Birmingham cross city is just the same, a single line starter/ section signal at Barnt Green to get on single line and then nothing for 4 miles to Redditch and on way back first signal is a distant at Barnt Green on the way back with a stop signal protecting Barnt green. and this with a half hourly service.

Robert Shrives

Soon(?) to be changed when the extended double track down to Alvechurch is installed.

 

Keith

[Oldddudders]

I think "one engine in steam" became "one train working" a while back. Presumably if the driver has any doubts, or if local instructions require it, he can use the CSR (Cab Secure Radio) with the channel number noted on the sign, to seek reassurance?

[Jim Martin]

Interesting stuff. Thanks to everyone for replying.

 

<Edit - already-answered question removed>

 

What is the circular sign you can see the back of at the end of the platform?

 

Jim

 

 

<Edited to remove question already answered by OldDudders while i was struggling with mobile posting>

[The Stationmaster]

Is the expression "one engine in steam" still in use? (this is an absolutely serious question, btw)

What is the circular sign you can see the back of at the end of the platform?

 

The term 'one engine in steam' disappeared a long time ago - a quick check reveals that it had gone by 1972 (possibly in that year but definitely no later); it was replaced by the term 'One Train Working' (OTW).

 

The back of the circular sign looks very much like a PRS (Permanent Restriction of Speed) sign similar to the one visible at the platform end.

 

Incidentally I would have though that terminus stations without any fixed signals on OTW (and similar) single lines are probably a lot more common than those with fixed signals.

[LMS2968]

The term 'one engine in steam' disappeared a long time ago - a quick check reveals that it had gone by 1972 (possibly in that year but definitely no later); it was replaced by the term 'One Train Working' (OTW).

 

Yes, I did my guard's training in January 1973 at Manchester Victoria and Birkenhead, and always wound up the instructor by using the term, 'one engine in steam'.

 

I was at the time a fireman on the Severn Valley Railway.

[great central]

On the Matlock branch we use a 'no signaller token' system.

On arrival at Ambergate the driver collects the token from an ancient machine after Derby 'box have released it. This clears the signal on the branch and we then take the token to Matlock and back. No more signals until arriving back at Ambergate, when the token is returned to the machine and we then await the signal to rejoin the main line.

There is a token machine at Matlock but it is only used if the first train is going beyond the stop board at the end of the platform, now it would be going over the Peak Rail connection.

The system works very well, apart from the odd human error. Some years ago, when there was a morning direct service to London using 170s, somehow the token got taken to London! The line had to be worked by pilotman for the rest of the day until the return train in the evening!

[Jim Martin]

 

The back of the circular sign looks very much like a PRS (Permanent Restriction of Speed) sign similar to the one visible at the platform end.

 

But there's a buffer stop 400' after the sign. Even if the approach to the station had a speed restriction, surely it would begin much further from the station than this? Or is a "last few yards" restriction actually a common feature at termini that I just haven't noticed before? (my interest in signalling and trackside signage has only kicked in quite recently, since I started seriously contemplating building a layout)

 

Jim

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

But there's a buffer stop 400' after the sign. Even if the approach to the station had a speed restriction, surely it would begin much further from the station than this? Or is a "last few yards" restriction actually a common feature at termini that I just haven't noticed before? (my interest in signalling and trackside signage has only kicked in quite recently, since I started seriously contemplating building a layout)

 

Jim

It could well be that there is a restriction there although it does sound a bit daft - but there is a board in the opposite direction which suggests to me that is where the linespeed changes.

[Edwin_m]

Might be that the restriction (but not the sign) is a hangover from the days when it was a through station?

[Oldddudders]

Could it just be a simple 10 mph restriction into the platform having regard to the buffer stop?

[flyingsignalman]

Here is the signalling on the Kirkby line from Rice Lane to Kirkby. I've taken it from a photo of the overview.

Signals with an "E" next to them are automatic signals; the grey sections of line have no train signalled, the white sections indicate that a route has been set (called).

2G96 is actually 2K35 and is travelling towards Kirkby station; it becomes 2G96 when it leaves Kirkby. When it passes the signal it is by, the Automatic Route Setting (ARS) will set the route from the single line to Faxakerley.

If any of the track circuits on the single line section fail then working by Pilotman has to be introduced.

[Jim Martin]

Please, please, please put us out of our misery! What does that sign say?

 

Jim

[beast66606]

I think Ian (Oldddudders) has already given you the answer

[Jim Martin]

I think Ian (Oldddudders) has already given you the answer

 

I read Oldddudders' post as conjecture (albeit based on a wealth of experience) rather than a definitive statement. There is, after all, a question mark at the end of it.

[TheSignalEngineer]

The Sectional Appendix shown a speed restriction of 15MPH entering the platform.

[Oldddudders]

Yes, my post was conjecture - and I was out by a factor of 50% which could have proved fatal had it been in the other direction!

[Jim Martin]

Many thanks for all the replies - very instructive. And special thanks to FS for saving me a trip out to Kirkby to satisfy my curiosity!

[flyingsignalman]

Back at work this morning after a few days off sick I was able to photo these two diagrams.

The first is from the signalling notice when the Northern lines panel was commissioned in 1994. On this diagram no speed restriction is shown and the notes state that the Kirkby lines line speed is 60mph. I think the 15mph restriction into the platform was added after an ECS train overshot the platform from Fazakerley early one morning a few years back.

The second is from a current S&T diagram and shows the speed restriction. Its rather complicated, with all the information on it, and I hope it's legible

[Jim Martin]

Wow! This is the first chance I've had to view this properly (I saw it on my phone earlier, but it compresses photos to the point that they're usually not worth looking at). There are some fascinating bits even on this small excerpt. I'm particularly taken with the fact that arriving trains set off a buzzer in the bus inspector's hut! Thanks very much for posting this.

 

Jim

[TheSignalEngineer]

.................. I'm particularly taken with the fact that arriving trains set off a buzzer in the bus inspector's hut! ........................

 

That's to give the bus driver time to get away before any potential customers arrive.