Doing it now before we have to

[Tim Hale]

In the past month I have been confronted by the inevitability of one's own demise after being told of my chum's cancer and the fact that every other social conversation seems to feature the latest loss to the community. My own poor (self-inflicted) health and lack of fall-back plan has prompted a review of the options and one of the 'problems' was what to do with the monster in the workshop.

 

However, although careful planning cannot deceive the inevitable it can make it easier for those left to pick up the pieces and so I am contemplating the sale of the monster once complete. The reason for this decision is simple, my personal pleasure is operating and the layout will not be exhibited as all the operators have passed* and the last is returning to London as a Chelsea Pensioner. My greatest concern is for my wife and I want to ensure that she does not have the burden of disposing of my personal interest of the past 50 years.

 

This may sound defeatist but I prefer realism over optimism and I am busy building a micro-layout that requires just one operator and fits within the backseat of the Beetle therefore not everything is gloomy.

 

Therefore unless options change for the better, the layout will suffer the ignominy of completion followed by sale together with all the books etc. at least, the money is not an issue but the legacy of my obsession with the Southern is a potential problem.

 

Tim

 

 

*Since moving to West Dorset, all the original group members have either died or moved (much the same result), the sale of the layout is the only option.

[PhilH]

Problem is that if you worry so much about the business of death you miss out on the business of life.

 

Just my opinion of course.

[Rowsley17D]

I would like to think that as members of this forum become victims to their own mortality, their advice and encourgement is active long after they have gone. For instance, I am sure there will plenty of Larry's coaches and models inspired by him running around layouts for many years to come.

[Oldddudders]

Many years ago, I recall our form teacher, a mature but very sharp lady, saying it was actually kindest to hope your partner died first, so they would not have the loneliness.

 

Having been bereaved all of three weeks, I now at least have the luxury of not having to worry about leaving difficult things. Being deliberately childless I hope to leave everything to my Godson and his brothers, fit younger men who can stick my models in the skip when they come to find what they've got. If illness or disability intervene I may need help. But I'll cross that one as and when.

 

Phil H is right - keep going 'til it stops, making provision for a partner as far as you are able, of course.

[Tim Hale]

Phil H is right - keep going 'til it stops, making provision for a partner as far as you are able, of course.

By still running a micro-layout whilst reducing the sheer amount of stuff, I hope that this will satisfy these requirements.Tim

[Colin]

I too have become increasingly aware of my mortality, following the loss of several family members and an old friend over the last few years.

My personal strategy is to carry on modelling for as long as I am physically and mentally able; as I enjoy exhibiting, future layouts will have to be smaller and easier to cart around. An 00 main line layout currently under construction in my garage (as it has been for the last 10 years) is likely to be the "last great project" and is unlikely to leave home.

I would be reluctant to drastically reduce my collection of models and books, as I can envisage that one day I would inevitably find myself regretting the decision.

 

As regards my rather large and diverse collection, my intention is to get a younger fellow modeller and good friend to act as executor for that part of my "estate" (for I have no family who share my interests). Once everything of value has been disposed of, layouts and anything deemed to be of negligible value will probably be donated to a local club.

[The Stationmaster]

My father carried on his collecting hobby (one in which he was also well known for his extensive knowledge of it) until his last few months when he really became too unwell to do anything beyond looking after himself. I'm sure - and many of his friends say the same - that the continuing interest and involvement his hobby gave him helped to keep him going through the quite severe depression he suffered following the death of my mother; he had an interest in which he could become fully absorbed and occupied and it literally helped keep him going.

 

On balance I think he did the right thing - even though it meant leaving even more for me to sort out following his death (but surely that is what family is for?).

[Baby Deltic]

I reckon whoever has to sell my collection if I snuff it will be able to retire and pay off the mortgage.

[Allegheny1600]

Tim,

You are right in some aspects of your OP - that of making provision for those who have to 'tidy up' after we have passed on, very commendable.

At my club, we have had to deal with the modelling remains of several members/friends over this past year or so - I have taken on one layout myself, one layout has been sold and another is shortly to be for sale.

With an ever increasing age demographic, I foresee this as an increasing/ongoing situation. I am also aware of a friend who recently died suddenly at too young an age and his family have been ruthlessly mercenary about his entire (very valuable) collection - had he made a will, this could have been avoided.

On the other hand - you should be able to enjoy your hobby while you can so your idea of a micro (or, a mini?) is good.

As you enjoy operating though - would it not make sense to keep the 'monster' and enjoy it until such time as your health is really becoming an issue? Unless that is already the case, of course. I do hope that this comes across as sensitively as it is meant to.

John E.

[tetsudofan]

What to do? Difficult question to answer....so many possibilities.

 

Based upon my recent experiences I know what I am going to do. Up until nearly three years ago I was caring for my Mother who has Alzheimer's. Now that Mum is in care her savings, as they exceed the limit for help from Social Services, are being used to pay for her care. If she had spent some of her money and enjoyed herself her care would be paid for. She, like many of her generation who were brought up in the 1930s and witnessed the Depression, War etc., did not want to spend all their money but save some for a rainy day.

 

So, first of all, I'm going to spend my money buying things that I will get enjoyment out of - somebody has got to support the likes of Bachmann, Dapol, Hornby and others!! For the last seven years I've been building a G-Scale layout in the garden and, recently, have started building an indoor OO/HO layout. These, I hope, will provide me with pride, enjoyment and satisfaction until the time I turn off the mortal coil and start pushing up the daisies.

 

Based on my experiences caring for my Mum at home I've had some extensions/modifications done to my house, like disabled-friendly bathroom, large easy-access porch to park an electric buggy, space for a stair lift as well as a nice big trainroom, so that I can continue living here as long as possible.

 

Being single and having no kids I'm not particularly worried about what happens to all my train stuff when I go. I'm getting enjoyment from what I've got now and hope this to continue in the future. I've got two very young great nephews so they will get the train stuff if they develop an interest. Otherwise, once I've gone I'm not particularly worried about what happens to my stuff. I would have enjoyed it. Maybe a selfish point of view but c'est la vie.

 

Important thing is that the Will has already been signed, sealed and delivered including bequests to some preserved railways and clubs I'm interested in. Power of Attorney is in the process of being created. If others out there have not done this then they should - it is important. If you die intestate the law decides where your money goes. If your don't have a Power of Attorney your relatives of friends have to go through the money-grabbing Court of Protection and that can be a long drawnout expensive procedure.

 

In the meantime I'm going to enjoy my trains, not worry about what happens to them when I go ,

 

Keith

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... even though it meant leaving even more for me to sort out following his death (but surely that is what family is for?).

Having twice now occupied the executor's chair, I can tell you that my feelings toward those departed are now seen through the lens of how well organised the crucial information on their financial affairs and assets proved to be.

 

Hope I have learned the lesson: a major thoughtful thing you can do before leaving this life is having the relevant information well organised and easily comprehended by someone else.

[edcayton]

Tim, isn't there someone else ( a fellow RMWebber perhaps) who lives near and could come and play trains-even better if it is a big layout a group of people?

 

Ed

[Forester]

Well, if anyone gives up their main interests in life that will certainly considerably hasten their demise.

I've seen too many people tidy themselves away into an earlier than necessary grave.

 

 

Keep doing what you enjoy doing and are capable of doing and let someone else deal with what is left.

 

They can always hire a big skip......

 

 

 

...it's cheaper than a hearse

[HLT 0109]

Tim,

 

If you were looking for advice in your original posting, then you have certainly received plenty. I am sure it is all valid even though sometimes conflicting and it is best you do what you feel comfortable with. I would just like to echo 34C's comments - if your affairs are tidy, the executor(s) will not mind implementing your wishes, and the most important element of that is to make sure you have made a will that expresses your wishes clearly.

 

Harold.

[Tim Hale]

Harold,

 

Thank you but I was not really seeking any advice on a forum, it was more of an exercise in muttering foollowing recent events.

 

The options were clear enough at the outset; careful preparation prevents a future problem for whoever has to deal with the aftermath. Open and honest discussion with my wife about the future has salved my conscience and provided her with the confidence to cope with most eventualities.

 

I agree with you, 34C’s comments were the nearest to that we had already decided and by far the most appropriate to our situation.

 

Thanks to all who contributed, hopefully this thread has triggered some thought about the future.

 

Tim

[Kenton]

I think planning for ones death is a morbid activity. It is a bit like talking oneself into it, depressing. I live life in the hope that my death, an accepted inevitability, comes as a sudden surprise to both me and my family. The last thing on my mind and I certainly hope the last on theirs is making preparations for the event.

 

All the nonsense of if you do this you will live longer is just speculation, I could walk under a bus next week but I am certainly not planning to, and will keep my eyes open to be on the safe side.

[coachmann]

All the nonsense of if you do this you will live longer is just speculation,

Has someone actually said this? Personally I believe the "speculation" by surgeons, and making arrangements so that ones dear wife doesn't have more to worry about than is necessary is a good thing too IMO. We fellas may not notice just how much we have managed to store, collect or whatever until it comes to having a slim down, then by golly it comes as quite a shock.

[Horsetan]

Funnily enough, I was watching a programme last night about the British funeral industry and our approach to funerals generally.

 

It certainly concentrated the mind.

[The Stationmaster]

Has someone actually said this? Personally I believe the "speculation" by surgeons, and making arrangements so that ones dear wife doesn't have more to worry about than is necessary is a good thing too IMO. We fellas may not notice just how much we have managed to store, collect or whatever until it comes to having a slim down, then by golly it comes as quite a shock.

Absolutely true - when my father died I had the dubious advantage of having already been joint executor for my mother (who had died 18 months previously) plus the distinct advantage of having Power of Attorney for my father and this worked in several ways the first being right on top of the Registration process and all that it entailed (which isn't much but it helps to know). The other advantage was knowing how t deal with banks etc although they - in my experience - tend to be helpful, for instance when I told the local branch that my father had died the first thing they said to me was 'Are you telling us officially or do you need a few days before doing that ?' as it happened I din't need 'the few days' but Power of Attorney can be very useful at such times if only to move everything to one account.

 

The paperwork side was, tax form apart - fairly simple and the only questionmark on the tax form was quickly dealt with over the 'phone to the helpline. But the biggie - and probably always the biggie as I've done it a couple of times - is the goods & chattels/house clearance aspect. In our case I knew what I was looking at when clearing the house but the problem was sorting the wheat from the chaff and that I think is probably going to be the most difficult aspect for those clearing up behind us when we're gone - they need to know what it is and whether it has any value be it to others in the hobby, a museum, or in realisable cash terms, and in the case of the latter (witness another recent thread) how that cash can best be realised or which museum to talk to etc.

[Guest dilbert]

The four ages (or seasons) of man spring to mind :

 

1. Spring : as a child, you are dependent on your parents

2. Summer : as a parent, your children are dependent on you

3. Autumn : as a grandparent, you are independent

4. Winter : and eventually, you will be dependent on your children

 

And as responsibilities evolve, you adapt and make the necessary changes, for the sake of your family (or entourage)... dilbert

[Kenton]

Has someone actually said this?  Personally I believe the "speculation" by surgeons, and making arrangements so that ones dear wife doesn't have more to worry about than is necessary is a good thing too IMO. We fellas may not notice just how much we have managed to store, collect or whatever until it comes to having a slim down, then by golly it comes as quite a shock.

 

No it was just another one of those additions that seem to be thrown in by the medical profession as a "cure to death" They always seem to forget that we are all individuals and some of us choose to ignore death until it finally hits us. (NB not quite the same as taking sensible[/s] steps to reasonable heath, or deliberately walking under the bus. For example just how many of us choose to continue to smoke (I don't BTW) despite obvious risks, and how many still smoke and live into their 90's? )

 

Having cleared out following parents and others, I can't say it was difficult. Perhaps I'm less emotional than most, but a minor inconvenience of a skip or pile of bin liners for the local charity shop is an excellent excuse for a party to celebrate the life and sudden passing of friends. If they are too wrapped up in their own misery then use some of the substantial inheritance to pay for someone to clear the lot.

 

Celebrate life, celebrate the happy memories, everyone dies sometime.

[GC Jack]

Well, if anyone gives up their main interests in life that will certainly considerably hasten their demise.

I've seen too many people tidy themselves away into an earlier than necessary grave.

 

 

Keep doing what you enjoy doing and are capable of doing and let someone else deal with what is left.

 

They can always hire a big skip......

 

 

 

...it's cheaper than a hearse

 

You never know what's coming on this forum!

 

I do some charity work that involves visiting older people. Although there are exceptions, it would seem that those who tend to close their lives down become very depressed and isolated. I don't have the stats that would show mortality rates in this group but from my experience they do have a higher rate of illness than those who remain active and involved.

 

Now these comments are definitely not directed at Tim or anyone else in this discussion, just a snap shot of a facet of my work.

 

As for myself I'm pretty good at disposing of anything that is no longer part of my life. I have just given away my exhibition layout. If I use it I keep it.

 

Jack

[Danemouth]

As somebody who is about to retire I have followed this thread with some interest.

 

The one thing I will do is update my will, originally made seven years ago, to reflect my daughter's marriage and children etc. I've seen a friend's estate where there is no will, believe me intestacy is a real pain to those left behind.

 

As for what's about the house well they can sort it out - I've always been meticulous about business papers so they know where to find all the relevant documentation.

 

And remember the Photographers prayer which applies equally to railway modellers:

 

Lord, if anything happens to me may my wife sell my cameras for what they're worth, not what she thinks they're worth.

 

Regards,

 

Dave

[Oldddudders]

I do some charity work that involves visiting older people. Although there are exceptions, it would seem that those who tend to close their lives down become very depressed and isolated. I don't have the stats that would show mortality rates in this group but from my experience they do have a higher rate of illness than those who remain active and involved.

An important, informed view, thankyou. I don't think we need actual stats to see this is very likely to be the case. Finding myself unexpectedly alone in a foreign country, I definitely need to address life anew to avoid some sort of spiral of decline. While, at not quite 64, I suspect I'm rather younger than the people you take the time to visit, the same rules must apply and a few sensible resolutions need to be made.

[GC Jack]

Ian,

 

Thank you I was very sorry to learn of your loss - good that you are able to share it with others here.

 

Early days for you I suspect, and hope you have support from friends, relatives etc. But yes hang to your interests - many of those I visit are bereaved - it is more than a therapy its a lifeline.

 

Please keep up the postings and if I can be of any help send me a pm.

 

Jack