Bernard Lamb Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Found a bit more info. It was Michael Edge who mentioned it on here. Jan 6 2009. 1.18pm under Armstrong Whitworth 1-C0-1 query He posted his drawing from 1976 that was published in Model Railways in June 1977. Not sure if you can get this from the archive. It does give a drawing of each end showing the cab window arrangements. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Great Bernard. That's here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35571&p=554338&hilit=Armstrong+Whitworth#p554338 So you reckon the small wheels are pony wheels? As in, independant from the main chassis. I've done them fixed to the chassis I hadn't given it much thought, but I guess they must be, otherwise the side frames wouldn't be shaped around the small wheels.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Hello Vac_basher, if you have a look on the Archer's web site (as has been mentioned) you may fined some louvres or grill transfers that may help along with the rivets. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Great Bernard. That's here: http://www.rmweb.co....itworth#p554338 So you reckon the small wheels are pony wheels? As in, independant from the main chassis. I've done them fixed to the chassis I hadn't given it much thought, but I guess they must be, otherwise the side frames wouldn't be shaped around the small wheels.... Glad to be of help. I do not know where I got the technical details from but it has to have some sort of sideways movement within the wheelbase to enable it to get round corners. I will try to find the RCTS book to see if that sheds any light on it. As you are building a static model I suppose it is not too imortant how you fix the wheels. The drawing does at least provide good details of the windows at the other end. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Thermally softening plasticard to allow shaping - Slater's polystyrene type, never tried it with an ABS sheet. Usually use 30 thou sheet for this. Expect to use about three times the area of the finished formed piece in this process, you want some easily handled excess around the formed area. The tool you want is a hot air gun or fairly meaty hairdryer. Warm the former first. Put the sheet over the former. 'Paint' the sheet with broad passes of the hot air source, moving it quickly, you want everything at a uniform temperature. As the sheet begins to drape over the former help it down, but only handling outside what will be the formed area. If the black plasticard is used, an easily visible loss of reflectivity may be observed as the sheet is just right, soft enough to form easily. This is one of those techniques that is probably a little 'sweaty' for most of us the first couple of times, but with a little practice becomes very easy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I've used a shaped profile and matching holed board, the former carved wood, the latter cut from hardboard. The hole needs to be a small amount bigger all round than the widest part of the form you're moulding so it can be pushed over the softened sheet to draw it down over the shape. Expect not to get the heating quite right the first time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 19, 2012 Author Share Posted October 19, 2012 Not much doing today. I've made a start on the roof. The roof section is removable for now, so if it all goes wrong I will be able to easily scrap just that bit.... But it does seem to be going ok, I think/hope. A few more cycles of filler - sand - filler - sand and it might just passable. I'll leave it to harden over night and give it a smoothing in the morning - see what happens then. If I'm unable to obtain a satisfactory result like this then I will try the melted plasticard method which the gentlemen have very helpfully described above. Thank you I must have done my calculations wrong because the roof section is looking quite a bit lower than the cabs ends which it was supposed to be relative to. But I think I should be able to build it up with filler. Fingers crossed! Thatched roof Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted October 19, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 19, 2012 I have never used a former. Two main reasons, first my woodworking skills are hopeless and second why bother with a one off, if you have the skill to make a slightly undersize former why not make the roof out of wood. Coach roofs of the same profile are excellent alternatives to scratchbuilding the roof. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I have to admit when I used the forming technique, it was to make the front of these where there's rather a lot of window which doesn't suit a solid block of wood, but for a loco or coach roof, you're right. Unless you need the clearance, you may as well use the solid wood roof! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 A few quick photos of last nights happenings..... For some reason something's not looking quite right..... After an hour or so things were begining to look a bit better. And the lesson learnt there was Don't Work From Memory!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Just as I was begining to think the roof was taking on a nice shape I had one of those jaw dropping moments when I realized I hadn't given any thought whatsoever to the fan! I couldn't believe it! Going through my parts box I found a nice one which I think must have come from an unrefurbished Bachmann Class 37. I thought this would have been suitable for my Armstrong Whitworth. So off I went to cut a hole in the roof.... This was unsuccessfull as under about 3mm of filler there are about 8 layers of plasticard. At this point what I did was scrape the filler off where the fan was to go (it was still quite soft, so it came off easily). I then disassembeled the fan and glued the blades onto the plasticard on the roof. This was then painted (if I were to leave it till later it wouldn't be possible to have it a diffrent colour from the roof). After the paint dries I'm going to stick the mesh and frame on top of the blades and try to bring make the roof level with this. However I don't know if this is will work (looks more nay than yea at the moment ) because between the fan and the roof level I've only got a couple of mm's at most to play with. In the worst case scenario I suppose I'm just going to have to do the roof then. I can't believe what silly errors I've been making reccently :scratchhead:I'm begining to wonder if the fumes from the glue and/or filler have been affecting me! Clive, as a matter of interest, what do you do about the fans on your Baby Deltics? Anyhow, here's a photo.... This was taken at the begining of tonight's session. I had already begun smoothing the bonnet down this afternoon. Since then it's been filled and sanded and filled again. It can be seen how nicely the roof was coming along at this stage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 The roof section is removable for now, so if it all goes wrong I will be able to easily scrap just that bit.... Thank goodness, at least I've done something right then! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Fortunatly, it looks like the roof may just about be salvageable!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I like your works 'dropping the power unit in' shot, but your generator is at the wrong end! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 This was going to be the quick phone photo to show the work which has been done this afternoon..... But Bernard prompted me to get the camera out to try and replicate this snap here: http://www.derbysulz...aw800engine.jpg So this is how things are looking at the present moment. The roof is by no means perfect, but I think it's just about presentable I might put it in undercoat tomorrow. I want to get the body painted so I can glaze it. Then I'll be able to finalize the roof. And finally I'll have to add the springs, sandboxes, and breakgear to the underframe. We're getting there I think! So the general consensus is that it was black then? I'd always assumed it was black too, but I suppose it may well have even been dark gray, dark brown, dark green, etc. So what do you think, shall we go with matt black then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 There is a reference in the Armstrong Whitworth book to the loco being in a dark blue livery. The roof is very light in early, pre-weathered, photos and still contrasting later, so probably white or light grey. Well done on the photo retake Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Dark blue it will be then! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 One photo I have seen shows the cab doors to be a very light colour. I would suspect white the same as the roof. Probably it was delivered like this but the doors were very soon painted body colour when in service. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 I don't think I've seen that one Bernard. However, as you say, the cab doors couldn't have lasted long like that because of the half dozen or so photos I've seen of the loco they've always been the same as the main body colour. (I'm painting it by the way!! Might have some photos this evening) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Infact, in black and white photos blue really can look black! Thank's ever so much for informing me on that Bernard, otherwise I'd have just gone with the black! The colour's alright isn't it? Should look quite nice complimented by the black underframe and red bufferbeams..... I have to say, while no doubt others may think it's crap, that's not a bad paint job by my standards. Just the fact that I ended up with no runs on it makes me quite pleased I'm not sure if the paint has 100% dried yet, because in some places it's matt and in others it's more glossy. It wouldn't be possible, would it, that because I didn't wait between coats as long as the can suggested that it has permenantly dried like this, is it? The can said matt. So I'm hoping it should all end up like the top left hand corner of the cab. When I saw this photo on the screen I thought that was a run below the cab door there, so I had to go back and check it but it's not. Maybe a bit of a going over with the carbon fiber scratch pen will correct that.... I'm not worried about the holes in the grill having filled with paint. They'll be easy to open out with a tiny drill bit. Quite pleased with how the bodyside footsteps have turned out, I was expecting worse. Likewise with the rivets on the underframe. Not as good as it could have been if I'd thought it through properly, nor very symetrical, but just about presentable I suppose. I'm going to have one of those late night sessions tonight. I'm hoping to get the insides painted; add the glazing; add the missing bits (such as the horizonal strip on the boonet in the first photo which has fallen off); and give it another coat of paint before going to bed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I reckon that's probably the right sort of blue and certainly very similar to that on the cover of the Armstrong Whitworth book. Well done for having a go at this unusual subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 I havn't seen the photo you refer to on the cover of the A.W. book, so that was lucky to have more or less matched it. We're not finished yet Bernard!! Stll the underframe to be done!! Anyhow, here's a (not very good) quick photo taken today. It's been glazed; I've fitted the body with the lamp brackets and handrails; and the roof has now been permenantly fixed in position. I've filled the ends where the meet the cab fronts and I will rub that down later this afternoon. I will also have to get some blue paint out the can and brush paint the lamp brackets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I meant the colour on the book cover (two colours - blue and cream) as can be seen on the link I posted earlier. The modified Hornby tender drive option sounds reasonable given it is outside frame without external rods or the like, especially if it can be set up with the prototypical uneven wheelbase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I don't think I've seen that one Bernard. The photo I mentioned is the one in the RCTS Green Book on LNER locos volume 10A. Dated 6th July 1933 on a trial run from Newsastle to North Wylam. I can't see from your photos against the blue if you have fitted vac pipes. It should have the tall type of pipe at each end. No idea if it ever bore a number or any form of identity. Theres a subject for a spot of research. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vac_basher Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 BernardTPM, I can't find the link you're reffering to. Maybe the Mod's took it away for some reason Bernard Lamb, the vac pipes are there. I'll post some better photos this evening after I've finished sorting the roof out. I could be wrong, but to the best of my knowledge I don't think it ever had any numbers/names. The only thing it did have was the A.W. plaque on the bodyside, similar to the one in BernardTPM's photo here http://www.flickr.com/photos/23689245@N08/3590064260/sizes/l/in/photostream/ I'm waiting till I need enough things to make a substancial order, but when I do I'll have John at Precission Lables print me a set of the A.W. plaques. Unfortunaly, there are only about two other things I need at the moment so it might be a good while before I'm able to get these. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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