Julian Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hello folks. I'm modelling a generic Scottish branch in the green diesel era, late 1960s. I want to run some oil tank wagons but, despite looking in books and on the 'net, am unsure of the types of r-t-r wagons to buy. Are the Bachmann/Hornby TTAs too late for that era? Should I stick to the old Mainline-style short-wheelbase wagons? Really appreciate any guidance offered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 TTVs (Though known by their pre TOPS description) and the 35T GLW and 40T GLW wagons may have been starting to come onto the scene but there were still lots of the older tank wagons about. Don't forget that the Airfix/Hornby 12ft wb 20T tanks were about as well. The newer tanks may have been restricted to specific flows in block trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
forest2807 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 What about the Airfix/Dapol Class B tanks? I'm sure someone will let you know if these would be appropriate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arran Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 HI All I think the Vacuum braked version of the Bachmann TTA goes back to the mid 60s. Regards Arran Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 As discussed in another thread recently, the vacuum braked version of the 45t monobloc tank was introduced from 1963 onwards. There would also have been the unfitted 14t (and possibly 20t) Class B tanks; these seemed to last longer than their Class A equivalents. Don't forget there were also a couple of firms around Scotland that used 14t tanks for bitumen into the early 1970s; Highland Bitumen was one, Briggs another. The 35t variety was definitely used is Scotland- there's been a photo on here recently of an Esso one at Fort William shed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Alder Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Here is a photo of one, taken 1971 or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hi Julian As well as the wagons mentioned so far, the Bachmann TTA (45 ton GLW), the 14 ton unfitted (both RCH 1911 and 1927 versions), the Airfix/Dapol 35 ton GLW Esso, the Hornby 45 ton GLW and the Airfix/Dapol/Hornby 20 ton wagons that are available there was a whole hotch-potch of types still running in the 1960s. These ranged from square tanks that were built in the 1900's through the various RCH designs to the more modern 40 ton GLW tanks. There i one type that the manufacturers seem to shy away from and that is the anchor mount as in Ben's photo, these were very common in the 1960s as most were built in teh 40s and 50s. One must not forget that the 100ton bogie wagons were introduced in the mid 1960s as well, these would not have been used on a branch unless there was a refinery or ditribution centre along it. Peco do a variation of the 1927 RCH design to give some variety to the Bachmann wagons. I have been building all sorts of tank wagons for my layout please see http://www.rmweb.co....ll/#entry812931 Edit, I forgot Hornby Doublo done a anchor mount tank wagon, it was not a typical one, it was a ferry wagon. If you can get hold of one it can be made into a decent "standard " anchor mounted tank wagon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidB-AU Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Here's one on the Mallaig mixed. http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=34591 Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Many thanks, guys, for your most kind posts, pics, links and comments - all really helpful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold McRuss Posted November 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2012 Hello, can anyone tell me the diameter of the 35ton anchor type tank wagons? I will maybe scratchbuilding some in N. Markus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted November 14, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2012 Hello, can anyone tell me the diameter of the 35ton anchor type tank wagons? I will maybe scratchbuilding some in N. Markus 7 ft 3 ins, for both A and B liquids. Class A tanks are 25 ft 2 1/2 ins long and B tanks 22 ft 6 ins long. B class fuels bing denser. Dimensions from the drawings in Oil on the Rails by Alan Coppin, published by HMRS. INBS no 9 780902 835173. Yours Clive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 7 ft 3 ins, for both A and B liquids. Class A tanks are 25 ft 2 1/2 ins long and B tanks 22 ft 6 ins long. B class fuels bing denser. Dimensions from the drawings in Oil on the Rails by Alan Coppin, published by HMRS. INBS no 9 780902 835173. Yours Clive Another source of drawing, with more detail is Bartlett, Paul W. & Fidczuk, Peter (1991) Tank wagons, part 4. 35-ton GLW vacuum brake tanks, Model Railways vol. 8 (part 1) pp 25 - 31. Drawing - diag. TS027C Esso 35t class B tank Note that these are not "anchor mount" tanks, if we have informed you of the correct ones. These are the type modelled by Dapol (nee Airfix). Anchor mount tanks come in many different combinations of length and barrel diameter. To get back a bit On topic here is a Scottish anchor mounted tank http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/briggsdundee/e2a54bc1c There were lots of tank wagons in Scotland http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/p17655928 Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold McRuss Posted November 14, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2012 Thank you for the answers. Markus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Reid Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Hi Mate in 1969 i had a holiday at Oban and logged details of two freighta 4th August Oban to Glasgow D8357 Shoc High Opedn=13ton 5 plank open-Esso 26ton BRT 5975-Esso 26ton M1935-16ton steel mineral=Shell/BP 14ton A5479-Shell/BP 14ton A4796-20 ton BR guards van. All empties 6th August Glasgow to Oba D5409 3 x Van, Shell 26 ton tank, 2 x Van, 26 ton Esso petrol, 3 x 22 ton plate open (all empty) 5 x 16 ton mineral with coal, 2 x Shell/BP 14 ton tank, 16 ton mineral with coal, BR Guards. of general interest there was also a block loand of road salt from Cheshire. The passeneger service was fascinating with much fe-mrshelling at Oban for the midday service back to Glasgow. Lots of activity with two diesels shunting! Great days alltoabackdrop of the stunning bay ans shipping Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Thanks to the posters on this thread. I need to put together a raft of Midlands Tar Distillers tanks for a regular movement over my model railway. As always Paul Bartlett has kindly provided and excellent resource in his Zenfolio pages of MTD tanks. It is probably more than coincidence that Hornby have released a 20T tank in pretty much exact reproduction of a couple of Paul's photographs of tank car No 88. Paul also shows some Anchor mount cars which are inspiring me, further helped by CLive Mortimore's treatise on his work on Anchor Mount tanks. Can anyone point me to drawings of the "anchor" part of a tank wagon, even if not a specific vehicle. As I need a few I might have to consider etched or resin parts to scratch aid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 16, 2013 Share Posted January 16, 2013 Phil Thanks for noticing the Hornby model. http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/mtd/e32835152 I am trying to get them to alter the era being given, as it is suited to the steam/electric transition period (1968) and not the 1930s! Anchor mount drawings There is one on a 20 ton tank here Bartlett, Paul W. & Fidczuk, Peter (1990) Tank wagons, part 3. NCB anchor mounted tar tank. Model Railways vol. 7 (part 10) pp 533 - 537. Drawing - diag. TS040A NCB 20t Thomas Ness tank. and another 20 ton Bartlett, Paul W. & Mann, T., (1984) Cross Channel Ferry Wagons used on BR. Model Railway Constructor Annual 1985 pp 18 - 29, edited by Leigh, Chris. Drawings - BR 20t tank diag. 1/ 304 We have measured the small MTD but you probably don't want to hear that! Now Phil, do you know much about MTD? I was surprised to realise that none of the main sources of info on either PO wagons or tank wagons (Coppin, Tourrett) appear to have noticed this company - there is a D shaped tank wagon photo in the HMRS collection by Jim Richards which has been reproduced several times - including in Tourrets major text - but Tourret gives no more info about the companies railcar stock. There is a useful history http://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/GB146_BS-MY/ What is noticeable is that they had a major redevelopment soon after 1950 when "Four Ashes brought together the refining operations of the Company and enabled MTD to refine tar acids itself, resulting in the Company becoming the biggest producers of cresols, xylenols and cresylic acids in the U.K." The small anchor mount tanks http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/mtd/e25e50e3c appear to date from about then. They joined with Yorkshire Tar distillers in 1971 and I don't believe any of the MTD fleet made it on to TOPS. I hope of help Paul Bartlett PS what is CLive Mortimore's treatise on his work on Anchor Mount tanks? PPS What has this to do with oil tank wagons in Scotland, seem well OT on someone elses topic! Apologies Julian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 16, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 16, 2013 Two drawings of 20 ton anchor mounted tanks on 12 foot wheel base underframes appear in Tourret's Petroleum Railtank Wagons of Britain. There is a drawing of 16 ton Bitumen lagged tank on 10 foot wheelbase underframe in Peter Fidczuk's Air Ministry Tank Wagons Part 2, Modellers Backtrack June- July 1993. There always the Barrowmore MRGs on line BR diagram books http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/BRFreight2Issue.pdf Pages 304/5 and 7 My models, owing to the lack of drawings I could find at the time were made using decent side on photos which I had scaled down. I hope of help Paul Bartlett PS what is CLive Mortimore's treatise on his work on Anchor Mount tanks? PPS What has this to do with oil tank wagons in Scotland, seem well OT on someone elses topic! Apologies Julian. Hi Paul I think Phil is referreing to this http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61979-hanging-hill/&do=findComment&comment=812931 And a bit more here http://scalerail.phpbbhosts.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=441 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Apologies Julian for "barging" your thread. For the attention of Paul Bartlett, I have created another thread here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67405-midland-tar-distillers-traffic-and-rolling-stock/ Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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