WIMorrison Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 There won’t be any internet connection but if you have connected to the Z21 router - which you have, and you have an IP address that is 192.168.0.x - I don’t know who you check it in Android but best to check it - and you have entered 192.168.0.112 into the app as the address for the Z21 then all should work. just check that you have connected the Z21 into one of the bank of 4 network connections and not the port that is on its own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, sulzer71 said: scan done on phone , it brings up the mini pc (which is not connected to the Z21 or router at all) , my phone and the router , however when i switch the device on phone to the Z21 it brings up my phone and the TP LINK Router (Z21) which is saying the IP is 192.168.1.1 , if i open the Z21 app and change the IP address to match it still does nothing Sorry to be blink but you need to be very clear on what you are seeing as I am confused as to what you are saying and as I cannot see your setup you need to be explicitly clear can you do a screen shot as that will be clearer. What you appear to suggest is that you have connected to something else as the addresses don’t seem correct. And are you 109% certain that the only cable connected to the Z21 router is the cable to the Z21? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 23 minutes ago, WIMorrison said: Sorry to be blink but you need to be very clear on what you are seeing as I am confused as to what you are saying and as I cannot see your setup you need to be explicitly clear can you do a screen shot as that will be clearer. What you appear to suggest is that you have connected to something else as the addresses don’t seem correct. And are you 109% certain that the only cable connected to the Z21 router is the cable to the Z21? thanks for the help , oddly i have managed to get it working by pressing the reset button on the Z21's router a couple of times although now it shows as TP Link rather than Z21 but never mind , it works Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Excellent - though I am still confused as to what was happening before as you seemed to have the wrong subnet , but I couldn’t be certain. Doesn’t matter now, though the TP link has now lost the ROCO configuration and is using the default OEM settings that fortunately are what are required for the Z21 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sulzer71 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 17 minutes ago, WIMorrison said: Excellent - though I am still confused as to what was happening before as you seemed to have the wrong subnet , but I couldn’t be certain. Doesn’t matter now, though the TP link has now lost the ROCO configuration and is using the default OEM settings that fortunately are what are required for the Z21 it's baffled me but it's working now which is what matters Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Z21 app V1.2.0 now available in the App Store Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodney burnett Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Hi all, I’m new to this forum and have been ‘lurking’ for a while. I have a room sized 00 BR outline layout and for the last 15 years have been happily using a ZTC 511 + a ZTC corded remote. I recently acquired a z21 (white) from a friend and have been playing with it – I’m very impressed. I would like to set up my layout to use the z21 but want to retain use of the 511 as a (static) extra throttle, but the z21 does not have the connectivity (i.e. sniffer port). I had the brilliant(???) idea of acquiring a Z21 (black) and using the white one as a booster (my layout has 2 power districts), since I read somewhere (on this thread?) that the Roco boosters are essential the same as the Z21 master unit. Is this a good idea? Would it work OK? Would there be any conflict between the 2 power districts? Are there any other snags? Any thoughts or help would be much appreciated. Rod B Glasgow UK Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 Theoretically you could make the Z21 sniff the z21 but to do what you want you would then be making the z21 the master system losing all the benefits of having the Z21 and the additional interfaces. If you are wedded to the z/Z21 then you could get a Z21 and attach a ROCO 10805 as the booster and that will work perfectly, this is the route I would choose and I would sell the z21. Another option is to use a Z21 with a Digikeijs DR5033. this route provides a supported pattern and is expandable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil S Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 2 hours ago, rodney burnett said: I read somewhere (on this thread?) that the Roco boosters are essential the same as the Z21 master unit. You may be confusing the situation which applied with the Basic Roco Amplifier ...'764. Which is/was identical electrically to the separately available ( at the time) Booster ...... This was a great advantage to know because Digital Start Sets were relatively cheap to buy .....and their amplifier could be used as a Booster without any modification . When used as the MASTER unit .... Whichever Multimaus was plugged in to the MASTER socket is the MASTER DCC generator, AND the source of remembered values ....such as point/signal position , active loco names and function status. The LIBRARY of 64 named locos is separate iñ each Multimaus ...but can be copied between them at any time. ONLY the Multimaus plugged In to the MASTER socket NEEDS and USES the 6 cores of the cable ..... Slaves only use 4 of the 6. Booster link is 4 pole. Further multimauses and other xpressnet handsets ( including a Ztc511 via an adapter lead ) also including Lenz, Hornby Select can àll be plugged in to the SLAVE port. And daisy chained. ( including a PC interface ) .... Maximum 32 handsets. .... Note some might use manual addressing, some are automatic and others fixed. WHEN USED as. BOOSTER : It uses its own power supply ... Not shared .... And ÑO connection is made using either Master or Slave sockets. The LINK is made by the 'in/out' booster connections: this is a PASSIVE loop through .....here is no difference between the on labelled 'in' or 'out' on the 'booster' boxed version. ......and on the amplifier version the 'in' socket is simply not fitted at manufacture: You have a choice of adding it yourself ( including opening the box and soldering ) OR MORE SIMPLY by using an External Y adapter .... Additional notes of relevance: The amplifier / booster does NOT provide voltage adjustment .... It follows the input supply ( up to the dcc limit ). An 18V. DC SMPS 'brick' is recommended ( and now supplied by Roco ). 3.5_ 4A max is suitable. This will then give a fixed track voltage of 16V 'DCC'. ( this may show as a different voltage with some voltmeters ....but is the 0- flatpeak amplitude of the ac DCC track signal. With the old transformer the track voltage could rise to 22V .....which is still less than the acfual peak voltage from a '12Vdc' output from an H&M analogue controller !!!!!! ( both when 'off load' ) Boosters should match the Amplifier's power supply voltage to ensure no change of speed at a boundary between districts. Phase MAY need to be swapped at the booster 'track output' connector to ensure the matching phase and no short at a boundary. The use of the earlier '761 and its transformer with white power tabs is NOT recommended as it has different internal circuitry with poorer protection. The 764 amplifier and matching booster do not support railcom ....the z/Z21 family Does. The NEW rocoline embedded digital point motors NOW are okay with RAilcom ... The OLD original production type ( of which I have many¡ ) are NOT railcom compatible. .... Therefore my loft layout does not benefit from railcom .... So i will probably continue to use multicentralepro ...... And my Z21 will continue to find itself used on our portable G scale layouts along with multimauses and tablet track plans ( but no railcom) ....although I have bought 1 digikeijs railçom module to try on a layout. For anyone starting now .... I can strongly recommend the Z21 family. ..... But I also retain my 'heritage' systems as they still work well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil S Posted September 24, 2019 Share Posted September 24, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, rodney burnett said: Edited September 24, 2019 by Phil S Duplicate post ..double hit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodney burnett Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Thank you Iain and Phil for your comments. So perhaps my 'brilliant plan' was not so brilliant after all! I am going to disconnect the ZTC511 and booster from my layout and try the z21 to see how it works in the 'real world' (although I may have to limit it to 1 power district - we shall see). If I'm happy I shall probably be asking Santa for a Z21 Black and booster (with the intention of using the sniffer port to run the ZTC511). As you have probably guessed I really am keen on retaining use of the ZTC511. Has anyone had any experience of running a ZTC 505, 511 or 611 from the sniffer port of the Z21? Thanks again Rod B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Rod AFAIK the sniffer port is to enable the Z21 to sniff the DCC packets from another system and retransmit them through the Z21 into the layout controlled by the Z21. This means that you can control anything in the Z21 district from the ZTC but not vice versa. The ZTC would need to sniff the Z21 to enable that to happen. what protocol does the ZTC handset use? It may be possible to use it connected to the Z21 using LocoNet.T or XpressNet. I doubt that it will work with RBus. if you can post a link to the manual for your ZTC I may be able to spot a way for you to do what you desire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trevora Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 ZTC says Extended Lenz X-Bus protocol is used Trevora Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 @trevora If that is the case then it will be a simple case of plugging the ZTC handset into the Z21 and full control will be available, though I don't know the kit, and we will need to wait for the link to the manual to see what is (or is not) available with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodney burnett Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Hi guys, thanks for your interest. I am attaching manual and spec for the ZTC 511 as requested by Iain and a diagram of the arrangement that I propose. Rod B 1272882803-ZTC-511-Manual.pdf 1277406679-ZTC-511-Data-Sheet-01mar-1097-FOR-WEBSITE.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Yes, the arrangement Rod B proposes should work. The ZTC has no knowledge of the existance of the Z21, and the Z21 is just receiving track commands from an unknown DCC system. NB - may needs the DPDT switch which ZTC used to recommend to ensure the DCC output of the ZTC was "stable" before throwing the switch to connect power to the track. In this case, the switch would sit between the ZTC and the Z21. Without the switch, I don't know what might happen at the Z21 if an unstable or otherwise eratic signal was received whilst the ZTC started up. The alternative would be to try the Lenz throttle bus input on the Z21, and connect the ZTC (used as a throttle) via that method. That may give access to a few more capabilities. This means putting the ZTC into "slave" mode (ZTC manual term). Such connections are reported to work with ZTC onto Lenz systems, so should also work onto Z21. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 @rodney burnett I agree with Nigel that this should work - unfortunately I didn’t interpret your post as you have drawn now - my apologies What you can then do to get more power is good a DR5033 or ROCO 10805 (ROCO is better) onto the Z21 and create another power district with one are driven by Z21 and one by booster. i will stand aside for Nigel’s recommendations on how to use the ZTC, clearly he knows it whereas I don’t. Good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 "knows it" comes from helping someone with one about eight years ago, which meant reading the manual and faffing. Hopefully there is someone around with more recent experience of connecting them to current systems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodney burnett Posted September 25, 2019 Share Posted September 25, 2019 Thanks all again and don't worry Iain I did notice your misinterpretation of my original post but being a 'newbie' I didn't want to immediately correct you. I do use a tethered remote with the ZTC 511 (a ZTC 622) at present but would not propose to use it with a Z21 when WIFI apps are better. Nigelcliffe makes 2 excellent suggestions - I do currently use a DPDT switch between the 511 and the track to solve the initiation voltage instability. Modern systems like the Z21 do not need this but I would have retained this anyway if still using the 511 - I would however have put it in the wrong place (between the Z21 and the track) but the correct place is between the 511 and the Z21 (thanks Nigelcliffe). I could also try using the 511 via the Lenz bus (X-bus I think), turning it to slave mode is easy enough and I must also remember to turn off the DC capabilities of the 511 - what other capabilities might this unlock? Rod B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil S Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 When used in slave mode I don't recall it having ANY output .... But it was many years ago that I swapped from having the ztc511 as a master .... Then slave ... Then sold. When it was the Master ... If stop was used from a multimaus, i had to go across to the 511 to clear it .... Which was plainly ridiculous as a way of working when with the multimaus family you can do anything from any handset. Wiring diagrams for the ztc din connection have been published here before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodney burnett Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Phil S is correct, the ZTC 511 has no output when set up as a slave. Rod B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodney burnett Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Phil S, is this what you mean? (it is from NCE Corp) I couldn't find one specifically for ZTC but the above should be Lenz (and ZTC) compatible. Rod B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil S Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 (edited) No - ZTC used the Mini-Din same size as S-Video BUT 8 PIN version ( even though only 4 needed in the slave scenario) ... I thought it would be 6 pin, but i've just viewed an original ZTC511 brochure on line ... clearly states 8 Pin "8 pin mini DIN socketsExtended Lenz X-Bus protocol" FOUND LINK TO DIAGRAM: http://terdina.net/rails/xpressCable.htm Where you will find the following drawn neatly in a table.... with images The following table reports the pins assignment of each type of plug. XpressNET™ signals A B C* D* L M and Not used Meaning RS485 A RS485 B [Control Bus] +12 Volts Ground RJ-12 pins Data A: 4 Data B: 3 1 6 12V: 5 Gnd: 2 DIN-5 pins Data A: 4 Data B: 5 - - 12V: 1 Gnd: 3 not used 2 miniDIN-8 pins Data A: 3 Data B: 2 [5] [ 6] 12V: 8 Gnd: 1 not used 4 + 7 NOTE the comments on the linked site about the 'viewpoint' of the MiniDin Connections ! Edited September 26, 2019 by Phil S Adding LINK to wiring and then improved the table Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodney burnett Posted September 26, 2019 Share Posted September 26, 2019 Thanks again Phil S. Rod B Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WIMorrison Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) Chaps - well worth installing the latest iOS update for the current Z21 app as it will also point you to the new Z21 updater for iOS that enables you to update the firmware through your phone A bonus for those that don't use MS Windows and a nice to have for those of us who do use MS Windows Edited October 9, 2019 by WIMorrison 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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