Wright writes.....

[Poggy1165]

Yes, let it never be forgotten, there are kits and kits. Some of which are, to be generous, 'an aid to scratch building'. A few may not even be that good.

 

I wonder how many people have been put off for life by a bad kit, on the presumption that because he/she could not build it, he/she was incapable of building anything?

[gr.king]

Graeme King's work is fantastic, but can I offer one tiny note of caution? Didn't those etched cabsides come from a 'traditional' kit, where separate parts are supplied? Take away that kit source, and life isn't quite as easy.

 

All the best.

Quite true regarding the cab parts in this instance, and I think having those gave me the necessary nudge to start this project at this particular stage. It could still be done equally well without the etched parts of course. The GN version of the K3 that I did by conversion a few years ago has a scratchbuilt cab in ordinary 10 thou brass sheet. Scratchbuilding the cab wasn't without its advantages either, as I was able to form the main "roll-over" sheet from a simple rectangle, solder it up to the shaped front, then take out the unwanted pieces with piercing saw and files. There was no trouble in getting the rolled eaves of the roof to form properly above the cut outs (where they tend to try to stay flat when you form a ready profiled piece) and I was able to ensure that all of the cut profiles were at the matching heights on the two sides of the cab. With the pre shaped etched piece it is imperative that centre line is accurately located and the cab front profile is absolutely symmetrical both sides, as etched and as soldered up, otherwise an obviously lop-sided cab results.....

Edited February 5, 2015 by gr.king

[BMacdermott]

Hello Arthur

 

The survey covered all types of kits - locos, rolling stock, card kits etc.

 

Brian

[Clive Mortimore]

Well if it really is necessary to generate pigeon holes to put people in (and personally I prefer not), then I would class you as a scratch builder.  Yes your raw materials are different, yes your tools are different, but essentially you are starting from raw materials and some drawings.  If that is not scratch building I do not know what is.

 

I can imagine the same arguments 60 odd years ago when plastic sheet started to become available and the old boys constructing from recycled tin cans and bits of brass saying that this plastic rubbish is not proper modelling.

Hi Andy

 

I got told that about two years ago. I wasn't a scratchbuilder as I did not make my own power bogies for my plastic card diesels. Using brass to make the frames for the diesel shunters didn't count either as I used commercial wheels, gears and motors. :nono:

[coachmann]

Hi Andy

 

I got told that about two years ago. I wasn't a scratchbuilder as I did not make my own power bogies for my plastic card diesels. Using brass to make the frames for the diesel shunters didn't count either as I used commercial wheels, gears and motors. :nono:

Hi Clive, I never came across these silly comments in real life, but I did read them on RMweb a few years ago.....Which makes you think dunnit.  The only bloke I knew who made all his wheels and wound his own motors was .........Blast old age, I've forgotten his  name. He modelled the Furness Railway and I ended up painting some of his locos.

Edited February 5, 2015 by coachmann

[Cleefy]

Yes, let it never be forgotten, there are kits and kits. Some of which are, to be generous, 'an aid to scratch building'. A few may not even be that good.

 

I wonder how many people have been put off for life by a bad kit, on the presumption that because he/she could not build it, he/she was incapable of building anything?

 

You can always tell a dodgy kit on ebay because the seller will have thrown in a set of wheels or a Portescap motor to divert your attention away from its appalling quality. If anyone sees such a kit for sale, run like the proverbial and do not, under any circumstances, be tempted to bid on it!

[swampy]

Hi Clive, I never came across these silly comments in real life, but I did read them on RMweb a few years ago.....Which makes you think dunnit.  The only bloke I knew who made all his wheels and wound his own motors was .........Blast old age, I've forgotten his  name. He modelled the Furness Railway and I ended up painting some of his locos.

Ross Pochin?

[The Stationmaster]

Hi Clive, I never came across these silly comments in real life, but I did read them on RMweb a few years ago.....Which makes you think dunnit.  The only bloke I knew who made all his wheels and wound his own motors was .........Blast old age, I've forgotten his  name. He modelled the Furness Railway and I ended up painting some of his locos.

Ross Pochin?

[corneliuslundie]

Just an anecdote. I recently wanted to know about brake levers for LYR wagons so posted a query on RMWeb. Two of the respondents answered by opening an unopened MAJ kit to see what the instructions said. I too have unopened kits but not from that long ago, though the wagon I wanted to finish was either MAJ or Colin Ashby and had been sitting incomplete for a few decades.

 

Jonathan

[BlackRat]

Like many, I have quite a few unmade kits.......over the last few days I have been mostly making Parkside pipe wagons.......

 

Half the cost of the new Bacchy ones, and sometimes we forget what fun it is to put something together, even if the finished paint job isn't quite as good.

 

Mind you by the time it's been weathered etc, you probably won't be able to tell anyway! ;-)

[Barry O]

Ross Pochin?

I thought Sidney Stubbs of Manchester MRS did the same as Mr Pochin?

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Clive, I never came across these silly comments in real life, but I did read them on RMweb a few years ago.....Which makes you think dunnit.  The only bloke I knew who made all his wheels and wound his own motors was .........Blast old age, I've forgotten his  name. He modelled the Furness Railway and I ended up painting some of his locos.

Hi Larry

 

It was said to my face by an ex-club member. I was so bemused by his comments I stood there doing my goldfish impersonation.

 

 

edited, forgot to run it through the spellchecker

Edited February 5, 2015 by Clive Mortimore

[Clive Mortimore]

I use to work with a chap who was not happy with the plastic wheels in the Airfix mineral wagon kit so he turned his own wheels from brass rod. He used Hornby points but for the layout he was building he needed a 3 way point and a double slip, he built them to the same radius as the Hornby points. He had made a lovely layout depicting the Kelevdon to Tollesbury branch. He wasn't a “puffer nutter” as such but enjoyed model making in general and wanted a model of the railway that went through his home village of Tiptree.

[Andy Hayter]

Hi Andy

 

I got told that about two years ago. I wasn't a scratchbuilder as I did not make my own power bogies for my plastic card diesels. Using brass to make the frames for the diesel shunters didn't count either as I used commercial wheels, gears and motors. :nono:

 

 

Clive

 

It is things like that that make me wary of pigeon-holing.

 

I scratchbuild bodies and usually underframes, but buy in wheels, W irons and often bogies (where appropriate) and if a locomotive will use a commercial chassis if no suitable kit is available.  (So I might just qualify as a scratch builder is some eyes, but clearly would fail in others).

I build kits - plastic, white metal, brass, PU, plaster.  (So I guess I am a kit builder)

I buy rtr and may or may not upgrade or customise it. ( So that makes me a train set modeller).

 

I model UK and Continental outline.  HO which can broadly be considered as scale, and 00 which cannot, as well as H0e which is even less scale (in my case at least).

 

I have 3 layouts (one in progress) and buy for these.  I also buy for future projects - so currently I guess that puts me into the acquirer category if not collector.

 

And since I buy things, does that make me cheque book modeller?  (Actually debit card modeller would be more accurate).

 

I was a club modeller until work took me out of the UK, and am now a solo modeller.

 

So I probably tick the box in most modelling categories apart from manufacturer.

[St Enodoc]

I thought Sidney Stubbs of Manchester MRS did the same as Mr Pochin?

Baz, I thought that quite a number of the MMRS gang did that - John Langan is another name that springs to mind. Before our time of course, but DHT might recall some others. The motors were wound for 24V dc as well I think. By the way, we had an excellent evening with Mr & Mrs Judith Edge Kits yesterday.

[gr.king]

edited, forgot to run it through the spellchecker

When you did, Grand Wizard, where the spells all correct?

 

Or are we talking about a spelling check?

[jwealleans]

where the spells all correct?

Be careful when casting the first stone......

[coachmann]

It was either Sid Stubbs or Ross Pochin although I suspect the latter....Whichever gent was old enough to have mixed some paint to match the FR 'Coppernob' while it was on display before the war. I know this because I had to convince my cellulose was a close match when dry before I would be awarded the contract. The Name John Langham rings a bell too. Didn't he exhibit a shunting plank at the Manchester Corn Exchange in the late 1950s with P4 trackwork and everything fitted with Alex Jackson couplings?

[Merfyn Jones]

All those Manchester club guys were my heros when I was still at school. Went to the Manchester show from 1962 for the next 30 years, always the place to see good modelling.

Great to get to know them too in the days of exhibiting there with GEM.

Merf.

[gr.king]

Be careful when casting the first stone......

Ooops! Caught red-handed. It's a fair cop.

[t-b-g]

It was either Sid Stubbs or Ross Pochin although I suspect the latter....Whichever gent was old enough to have mixed some paint to match the FR 'Coppernob' while it was on display before the war. I know this because I had to convince my cellulose was a close match when dry before I would be awarded the contract. The Name John Langham rings a bell too. Didn't he exhibit a shunting plank at the Manchester Corn Exchange in the late 1950s with P4 trackwork and everything fitted with Alex Jackson couplings?

 

Ross Pochin was the man for FR stuff. Some of his models have been displayed at exhibitions in recent years. I saw them in a display case on a Society stand (I can't remember which one) at Wigan.

 

The models (and the paint job!) are still superb.

 

Sid Stubbs was a Midland modeller. I didn't know him well but in his later years, he visited Roy Jackson's Retford project and brought a lovely 4-4-0 along. He wasn't sure how well it would run due to the lack of volts for the 24v motor and also, they had their own wheel standards that were a bit finer than the published EM ones.

 

He needn't have worried! Roy's track was up to the task and his controllers have plenty of oomph!

 

Sid Stubbs was one of the Manchester group of modellers, that included John Langham (who put working hand brakes on his 4mm wagons) and Alex Jackson.

 

The shunting plank at Manchester show was possibly "Presson" which was built to their EM fine standards.

 

Messrs Stubbs, Jackson and Pochin were true miniature engineers with great skills and I wonder if there are any around doing similar work today or if those sorts of skills will have died out with their passing.

 

Tony

Edited February 6, 2015 by t-b-g

[Allegheny1600]

Messrs Stubbs, Jackson and Pochin were true miniature engineers with great skills and I wonder if there are any around doing similar work today or if those sorts of skills will have died out with their passing.

 

Tony

Correct on all counts Tony (G!),

I was fortunate to meet Sid Stubbs on a couple of occasions, this was when he was very elderly indeed but it was an honour to meet such a revered modeller.

To anyone who doesn't know, I am a member of the MMRS and it is trying hard to bring itself into the 'modern age' but it does seem to have a certain "reputation" which none of us members can understand - we're not all solicitors, doctors & clergy you know, we're mostly perfectly normal working (or retired) folk!

And there are those who are keen to pass along some of those skills that used to be a pre-requisite for "quality" modelling, I have recently been on a soldering course and a P4 wagon building course that included the making & fitting of AJ couplings (they are quite easy with the correct jigs!).

So, there are still people around who certainly learnt at the hands of the 'masters' and who are willing to teach others, I suspect this must be the case in other clubs/societies - surely the older & experienced gents could be persuaded to pass their skills on to other members, like an internal "demo" stand if you will?

Also, much the same as Tony (W) is doing with interested parties, I believe?

Cheers,

John E.

[Judge Dread]

On the subject of never started, or unfinished or just a heap of **** kits. I have no qualms of buying such examples in the high hopes that I may one day make something of them but I will not pay a king's (or queen's) ransom for the privilege! I have, in the past, spent a considerable time removing moulding seems from kits and when I had to chance to complain to the manufacturer,  I was told "We would have done that but then we would have had to charge you for that!" Looking back, fair comment I suppose.

As a school lad, I was advised to build kits in three's. First number one until you became frustrated with it and it was put to one side for more thought. These were the days before the internet by the way. Kit two would be worked on until the same situation arose. Then onto kit three and hopefully when that one was pushed aside, you had a solution to the problem with kit number one. If the problems were not solved then you took them to your club's exhibition and sold them on the second hand stall and this is where I came in! 

[Ralph R]

I would just like to add to what John (Allegheny) says above. At Manchester we do actually have several of the models made by the old masters (Alex Jackson, Ross Pochin, John Langan, Norman Dale, Sid Stubbs and Norman Whitnall and they can be seen in our clubrooms. They are exquisite models some of which were built just after WW2 and meant that everything had to be scratchbuilt from the wheels right up to the motor. Painting might not be up to todays standard but Sid did make his own airbrush from brass and this came into our possession when we cleared out his railway loft - this probably dates to the early 50s.

 

We really should get some photos of these old models which are on show in our display cabinet. Need to get the website updated!

 

Ralph

[johnarcher]

I would just like to add to what John (Allegheny) says above. At Manchester we do actually have several of the models made by the old masters (Alex Jackson, Ross Pochin, John Langan, Norman Dale, Sid Stubbs and Norman Whitnall and they can be seen in our clubrooms. They are exquisite models some of which were built just after WW2 and meant that everything had to be scratchbuilt from the wheels right up to the motor. Painting might not be up to todays standard but Sid did make his own airbrush from brass and this came into our possession when we cleared out his railway loft - this probably dates to the early 50s.

 

We really should get some photos of these old models which are on show in our display cabinet. Need to get the website updated!

 

Ralph

When you have them please put some on here. I remember being , oh something between impressed and stunned, by Stubbs and Pochin articles long ago. I'd love to see some of the models made by such craftsmen again. Now that, as they say, is what I call modelling.

Edited February 6, 2015 by johnarcher