RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted February 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2015 I am aware of the points in post 3809 = I am not getting any younger myself, I was not thinking of actual appearances by the manufacturers, though the owner of Coopercraft etc does still appear sometimes at shows, but the way there used to be a selection of kits on the stands of the more general traders. Apart from those I mentioned I can think of Ratio, Coopercraft etc. And long ago there used to be MAJ, Ian Kirk (plus other linkedto him), Colin Ashby, Model Wagon Co, Great Western Wagons, 3H etc. I don't remember stands for many of the manufacturers but you could usually wander round a decent exhibition and see some kits. There are also a lot of detailing components from a number of companies that are in the same category, though Langley had a stand at Stafford and there were some newer outfits such as Ten Commandments. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnarcher Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I am aware of the points in post 3809 = I am not getting any younger myself, I was not thinking of actual appearances by the manufacturers, though the owner of Coopercraft etc does still appear sometimes at shows, but the way there used to be a selection of kits on the stands of the more general traders. Apart from those I mentioned I can think of Ratio, Coopercraft etc. And long ago there used to be MAJ, Ian Kirk (plus other linkedto him), Colin Ashby, Model Wagon Co, Great Western Wagons, 3H etc. I don't remember stands for many of the manufacturers but you could usually wander round a decent exhibition and see some kits. There are also a lot of detailing components from a number of companies that are in the same category, though Langley had a stand at Stafford and there were some newer outfits such as Ten Commandments. Jonathan I think this isn't just true about exhibitions. It can be difficult to know of the existence of many of what kits survive and, especially, minor bits and pieces. The sort of model shop that used to stock them seems pretty rare now, and the actual makers may not have much web presence. Mainly Trains website was a useful place where one could find a variety of bits in one place, but that's going now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottiedog Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 As has rightly been said, gone are the days when you could have wander around at a show and pick up a variety of wagon kits etc.from general traders. Nowadays, you only seem able to pick them up at specialist shows, on second hand stands and on E-bay. It is a great shame. "Cottage Industry" margins were always tight and I found it nigh on impossible to give the discount sought by other traders- generally in the region of 20%+ - and still pay myself a decent wage and, further develop my range. Hence they could only be bought from my own stand and by mail order. Incidentally the range is still available, split between David Geen ( incorporating Great Western Wagons) and Wizard/51lL. The latter offers an excellent mail order service and attends a number of good sized exhibitions and scale society shows. I agree with the comments that a well developed website is essential in this day and age. Looking at those who still produce kits, many are into their late 60s, some are 70+, and two of whom I know have passed 80. Andrew at Wizard/51L excepted! Diminishing manufacturers, serving a diminishing market. As previously said, it does not augur well for the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnarcher Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Looking at those who still produce kits, many are into their late 60s, some are 70+, and two of whom I know have passed 80. Andrew at Wizard/51L excepted! Diminishing manufacturers, serving a diminishing market. As previously said, it does not augur well for the future. And, as has been said, it's the market that is the problem, otherwise, surely, new manufacturers/traders would appear to replace those who are getting, shall we say, less than youthful? Is it wholly or just mainly a 4mm standard gauge problem? There does seem to be more rtr in 7mm scale, even in 009. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Anyone with a range of parts, casting and whatever almost always faces the problem of butter-mountains. Small turnings have to be bought in thousands (big financial outlay and trickle income). Etched coach sides are often done with several different diagrams on one sheet so to stock up with a good seller leads to butter mountains of unsold coach sides. Any attempt to rebalance things usually leads to being tripped up because another diagram has suddenly become a best seller. Castings are a nightmare. One usually makes a pair of bogie patterns but a typical mould requires many sideframes to make it viable. So several different bogies go on the one mould. Guess what, the LMS 9' bogie is the best seller and another butter mountain is created! Several moulds in my name are testimony to attempts to rebalance things. Casting off castings is the name of the game with some producers - and it shows. But it's a shrinking market (no pun intended!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donington Road Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I would like to see more effort put into uploading images of products on websites. I have recently started to look at a website and discovered the firm offers coach sides for a variety of GNR coaches. How many prospective customers have access to Diagram numbers? I haven't. It is vital they illustrate these coach sides even if it is only a scan of an etch. A cold list of written details is hardly the way to attract buyers. I would like to see websites become more professional. Unless you have the knowledge and time to do your own website the cost to many small businesses can be prohibitive. Once a website is established there are still on going maintenance and hosting costs to take into account. Perhaps this will give you an insight into the typical costs involved. http://www.netchimp.co.uk/webdesign/web-designs/how-much-should-website-cost/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) SNIP In view of the comments about the demise (or perceived demise) in the actual making of locos and rolling stock, I observed the layouts from this point of view, concentrating (obviously?) on OO gauge. I was astonished how few locomotives (in particular) were made and it seemed to me that most of the rolling stock was RTR-based as well. One of the largest layouts seemed to have nothing but RTR stock on it, though it ran very well. In fairness, most of the stock on layouts had been detailed/weathered. It seems to me, as now mainly an observer, that there has been a significant shift in the stocking of layouts since I started all those years ago. Are mainstream folk concentrating now on the building of their layouts, and letting the stock take care of itself? Certainly, without the current RTR base, I don't see how some of the layouts could have been stocked at all, particularly the diesel ones. SNIP I would re-ask your last question as "could (or would) those layouts even have been built in the first place?", (let alone been considered as worthy of exhibiting). I'm don't remember hearing about so many model railway exhibitions when I was teenager in the 60's. Nor so many different layouts cropping up in mags like the Railway Modeller. I thought instead that many of the same few re-appeared quite often in later articles. Andy Edited February 1, 2015 by Andy Reichert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Unless you have the knowledge and time to do your own website the cost to many small businesses can be prohibitive. Once a website is established there are still on going maintenance and hosting costs to take into account. Perhaps this will give you an insight into the typical costs involved. http://www.netchimp.co.uk/webdesign/web-designs/how-much-should-website-cost/ Perhaps as used on the Scale Four Society webpage a shared presence for businesses as well as a their Forum etc would be a cheaper option ? Sadly for small businesses the internet shopping option isn't going away. If you want to sell your product is there only a couple of other options . Shows (surprised that the earlier comment stated they still produce 50% of sales) and magazines. Another option is RM web and other specialist web sites having a Business section ?. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 "Shopsite" has a relatively easy to DIY set up an e-commerce web site and selling package starting from "free". Then and GoDaddy or Bluehost will run it for around $10 a month. If it wasn't for the WEB, the Proto:87 Stores wouldn't exist. There is no way that such specialty items could be stocked by hobby shops. And going to the few exhibitions all over the US would be prohibitive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Focalplane Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 Just a thought, but could the Amazon.com business model be a way forward? The so called "long tail" of book titles created the need for a central clearing house to match seller with buyer. Surely, the "long tail" exists in spades within our pastime? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tony Wright Posted February 1, 2015 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 1, 2015 (edited) All this stuff about websites and internet sales baffles me. So, it's been back to modelling and taking some more pictures of Little Bytham. Considering that much of this top-surface has been laid on porridge, I don't think it's turned out too badly. These views show the M&GNR embankment towards the east and it's heavily selectively-compressed. Compressed enough to not have the River Glen going beneath it, nor have space at its foot to accommodate the two wooden railway cottages which were still there in 1958. Without having it as a roundy-roundy, I could have just squeezed the river in, but it was one or the other. The wonderful prototype of this bridge in Station Road still survives, but it carries no more than a small forest today. A couple of years ago a gang took much of the vegetation away, but a couple of wet winters and good-growing summers means that nature is winning again. The 2P is an old Mainline body on a Comet chassis which I did for Richard Wilson. Until he gets a layout of his own up and running, it's on loan. I'll build the Millholme one to have a 2P of my own. One thing about modelling a prototype is that you can attempt to reproduce prototype views. The real picture was taken in 1911, just after the main line was quadrupled and a new station and facilities built. The station booking office still survives, though the grand goods shed went a few years ago. Four new houses now occupy the goods yard site. Having said that one can attempt to reproduce real views, this pair of pictures also illustrates how the optics of a camera taking a picture of the real thing cannot be replicated in model form, or not by me, anyway. Though the model buildings are in the 'right' place on the layout (plotted from the scale plan), their juxtaposition is different from the real thing. In my defence, I haven't got the camera in 'exactly' the same place on the road. Paul Bason is to visit soon, bringing a mock-up of the Willoughby. I'd better get building his C2! Though the east-west bit of the railway is heavily selectively-compressed, the main line certainly isn't (well, only about 16" short of scale length). Because I didn't want rather daft right-angle bends to be able to go on/off scene, that's the reason for the compression - that and my insistence on having the MR/M&GNR as a circuit. A few of the buildings are still just mock-ups, and there are the pair of cottages in the goods yard and those in Station Road to make, but we're getting there. The 'footprints' for the island platform buildings are in place, and Ian Wilson has prepared the drawings for making them. As I've mentioned before, scale-length trains do not fill the scenic section, and the 'rule of thirds' has been just about applied. I'll be mentioning the notion of prototype modelling during my presentation at Donny next weekend; that and making locos and coaches, so if you have any questions please come along. I've also been invited to Warley to present a more-detailed explanation on how I (we) went about modelling a prototype. Edited because I missed a point out. Edited February 1, 2015 by Tony Wright 25 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I think this isn't just true about exhibitions. It can be difficult to know of the existence of many of what kits survive and, especially, minor bits and pieces. The sort of model shop that used to stock them seems pretty rare now, ... and no W&H catalogue to browse through either! The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted February 1, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2015 I'd forgotten about that W & H Cat. I seem to remember it was a lump of a book and I couldn't afford anything in it! P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiffy2 Posted February 1, 2015 Share Posted February 1, 2015 I think I've still got one, somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Never mind about W&H. Bring back Hamblings!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted February 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2015 Unless you have the knowledge and time to do your own website the cost to many small businesses can be prohibitive. Once a website is established there are still on going maintenance and hosting costs to take into account. Perhaps this will give you an insight into the typical costs involved. http://www.netchimp.co.uk/webdesign/web-designs/how-much-should-website-cost/ This is where doing favours comes into it. Find a web savvy modeller who will knock up a usable site for say a kit. Reasonalbe hosting is around £50 a year, but there are free hosting alternatives Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted February 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2015 I'd forgotten about that W & H Cat. I seem to remember it was a lump of a book and I couldn't afford anything in it! P All very well drooling over the W&H catalogue but did you ever try getting your local model shop to order anything from it? They weren't nicknamed Wait & Hope for nothing... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 Reminds me of the first time I encountered the Walthers catalogue in the early 1990s.... a whole world of exotic goodies, never in stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 That new triangular island of grass at the road junction in Little Bytham looks familiar. I think I've been there..... Captain Hewitt Pearson Montague Beames would no doubt be pleased to see the big tank engine coming together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUTLER2579 Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 That new triangular island of grass at the road junction in Little Bytham looks familiar. I think I've been there..... Captain Hewitt Pearson Montague Beames would no doubt be pleased to see the big tank engine coming together. Mr K, where you the old knife grinder who used to park his Caravan there and tether his old grey mare up the Bourne road whilst travelling the country in the 60's then. Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 I think I've still got one, somewhere. My circa 1975 W&H catalogue still proves useful on occasion for recognising 'what have we got here'. Scribbled in the back are the street addresses/tube stations of all the worthwhile Norf London model shops then existing: save for Kings Cross Models which I could find without fail thanks to its occupying the most correct location possible for any model shop, in saecula saeculorum, amen. As for the 'Wait and Hope' aspect, that even applied if you went to the shop. One of the few retail experiences where the shopkeep would actually say "I am too busy to help you right now". Even when they had the time, you rather got the feeling that customers weren't exactly what they were looking for. But then again, they did actually have stuff in stock, something of a redeeming feature. (What they should have been looking for was a vacuum cleaner, does anyone suppose that floor had ever been cleaned? Or was I unfortunate in always visiting immediately after a herd of Wildebeeste had migrated through the premises for 24 hours?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted February 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 2, 2015 You were fortunate. They never seemed to have what I wanted on the occasions I trudged down west that far. Even Beatties as it once was would be welcome, though it was pretty useless last time I went there about eight years ago; although there were some of the more common kits on sale. I don't think any of the London shops I frequented are there any more, though I no longer go to London if I can help it so it is a bit academic. As has been suggested it is mostly mail order via the web these days, though not all traders have web sales (as explained above). ABS is one supplier with a vast range (though not as vast as the catalogue suggests at first) who only does mail order by post. A useful website for GWR modellers (and some of its absorbed companies) is www.gwr.org.uk which includes listings of most current and past RTR models and kits in 2, 3, 4 and 7mm scales. Could this be done for other companies? I don't know if any of the line societies do it, and of course there isn't a separate line society for BR or after. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 That new triangular island of grass at the road junction in Little Bytham looks familiar. I think I've been there..... Captain Hewitt Pearson Montague Beames would no doubt be pleased to see the big tank engine coming together. There certainly wasn't any problem measuring it, both from the plan and on site. One problem, though, is as that corner of the layout is being developed, there's now almost no space to park boxes and so on. I'll have to devise some sort of shelving system underneath, or clear the ones I've got.. Now, a question for those out there who might know. Road signs; does anyone out there have any pictures of Lincolnshire rural road signs in the '50s, please, or know exactly what they looked like? I'm very unlikely to find a picture of the one which must have stood (not been stood!) on the triangle, so I'm going to have to guess. I've found some older road signs still around (near Rippingale), but are these getting on for 60 years old? I know it's only a small detail, but I'd like to get it right (even though it'll probably be flattened by marauding bellies!). Various old model catalogues don't appear to list such things, though I've got some castings from Dart, I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted February 2, 2015 Share Posted February 2, 2015 ... pictures of Lincolnshire rural road signs in the '50s... A quick google search for 'lincolnshire road signs' produced these which look sufficiently old. Also see the images link about fourth down on the google results page, though there are only a few more there. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share Posted February 2, 2015 My circa 1975 W&H catalogue still proves useful on occasion for recognising 'what have we got here'. Scribbled in the back are the street addresses/tube stations of all the worthwhile Norf London model shops then existing: save for Kings Cross Models which I could find without fail thanks to its occupying the most correct location possible for any model shop, in saecula saeculorum, amen. As for the 'Wait and Hope' aspect, that even applied if you went to the shop. One of the few retail experiences where the shopkeep would actually say "I am too busy to help you right now". Even when they had the time, you rather got the feeling that customers weren't exactly what they were looking for. But then again, they did actually have stuff in stock, something of a redeeming feature. (What they should have been looking for was a vacuum cleaner, does anyone suppose that floor had ever been cleaned? Or was I unfortunate in always visiting immediately after a herd of Wildebeeste had migrated through the premises for 24 hours?) What a great walk down memory lane! A friend and I once went to London in the early '60s with the intention of visiting all the model shops we could find. Was the shop adjacent to Kings Cross there in 1963? My memory fades, because I can't remember visiting it that Friday and Saturday. Obviously W&H was called in on (I have a similar memory) and (unless I'm in a time warp) Bonds, and Hamblings (where I bought a set of wheels and a wheel press!), Bassett Lowke's in Holborn and out to Beatties at Southgate. There was also a shop by London Bridge Station (was this ABC?), and we also went out to Tooting Bec. I have a recallection of also visiting others, but my memory is rather fading these days. The main impression was how different each one was, and though Tri-ang, Hornby-Dublo, Trix and Graham Farish could be found in most, there was a fascinating assortment unique to each one. Though nostalgia isn't what it was, it shows, to me, how so much the poorer we are in these internet days. Not many years later I revisited Tooting and bought my first loco kit; a J11, which I shoved on a Tri-ang 0-6-0 chassis. It was rubbish! But, thanks for those memories. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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