Wright writes.....

[gr.king]

 As for locking, I'm a machinist and have the facilities to do this to my wheels.

 

Pinned wheel.jpg

 

A slot is milled into the axle.  Once quartering is set and running satisfactory the other half of the hole is drilled in the wheel boss. A wire pin is then inserted, snipped off and filed flush.  This method means that if, in extremis, the wheel has to come off the axle for any reason the wheel itself is not destroyed and the quartering can be reset exactly as before.

 

Cheers....Morgan

I suspect that even a skinflint such as myself, with no machine tools, could use care to file or saw a suitable slot into the end of an axle then drill the adjoining softer material of the wheel to facilitate a rough but viable imitation of that method.

[Tony Wright]

I suspect that even a skinflint such as myself, with no machine tools, could use care to file or saw a suitable slot into the end of an axle then drill the adjoining softer material of the wheel to facilitate a rough but viable imitation of that method.

With your abilities, Graeme, I wouldn't put anything beyond you.

 

But, why should it be necessary to modify a driving wheel/axle sold for the purpose, either by Morgan's beautifully-engineered way or your 'skinflint' method? 

 

If Morgan has done it (as he shows most graphically) then he's found it necessary and from the jist of your post, you're contemplating it too. I know Roy Jackson had some problems (the like of which have been discussed already) with older Gibson drivers on Retford (mind you that fantastic layout can be a 'loco-killer'), and he changed some locos to Romford-style drivers because of their 'unbustability'. 

 

My concern, not in the evangelical sense I hope, is for the beginner. At a time when loco-building is diminishing, what hope for the newcomer when he/she finds that his/her wheels on his/her first (or second or third) loco shift on their axles? That's why I recommended Markits to Tom. And, for running on Grantham, which has Code 100 points and crossings, the slightly deeper flanges and greater tyre width of the Romford-style wheel give better performance. 

 

Do you want that tender, by the way?

Edited September 26, 2015 by Tony Wright

[Focalplane]

I had a small wire brush many years ago that was provided for cleaning up Suede shoes (remember those, geography teachers' favourites I'm told). I have built a few kits with WM boiler and parts and tender body. This brush was excellent for polishing up the WM boiler/firebox/smokebox; not so sure about the tenders as one had to be careful if there were 'rivets'. Haven't seen that brush for many years; wonder where it went?

Phil

Phil, good point. I recently went into a shoe shop to buy one of those, not for using on my shoes, but as a very good conditioner for tired soldering iron bits. Nowhere to be seen! Paul

[polybear]

As for locking, I'm a machinist and have the facilities to do this to my wheels.

 

Pinned wheel.jpg

 

A slot is milled into the axle.  Once quartering is set and running satisfactory the other half of the hole is drilled in the wheel boss. A wire pin is then inserted, snipped off and filed flush.  This method means that if, in extremis, the wheel has to come off the axle for any reason the wheel itself is not destroyed and the quartering can be reset exactly as before.

 

Cheers....Morgan

I, like many others I'm sure, stocked up on Alan Gibson wheels just prior to the "real" Alan Gibson's retirement (at that time he didn't have a buyer, and it looked as though there was a real risk that the range would be lost.  Would I be right in thinking that the ones I purchased may be problematic?

 

Morgan - I (and I'm sure many others too) would be very interested if you could do a more detailed photo feature on the method you use to lock the wheels to the axle.  Any possibility please?   

 

Many thanks

Brian

[Pebbles]

Locking wheels the blacksmith way! Drill an 1/8inch reamed hole on 1/4inch plate, locate axle in hole. Drill at the axle/plate interface to approximately 2mm with a small drill (size isn't critical but should be roughly the same as the wire to be used). This should leave an approximate half round slot. When quartering has been achieved drill into axle wheel interface using the half hole as the locator and glue in the wire etc.

[Tony Wright]

Phil, the time I'm thinking of was definitely '98. I'd flown back overnight from a business trip to Hong Kong and pretty much went straight to the Brighton Centre instead of home to Eastbourne. Stoke was in one of the small annexe rooms, far from the madding crowd, and Tony and the team were gracious enough to let me have a play.

Definitely '98. In '96 we'd only just started exhibiting Stoke and it was after that. 

 

Having guests operate was something we always liked to do. In fairness, operation was quite easy - apart from one or two movements, just trains going round - but it was always good to hand the controllers to friends. Indeed, many guest operators became actual operators down the years; my thanks to them, and they know who they are. At times, without their help, we couldn't have run the layout. 

 

Occasionally, we'd let children have a go. The kids were vetted first, of course - shouty, pushy, ill-mannered ones, no chance. But quiet, well-mannered ones, with parental permission of course, were encouraged. It's good to see that happening on other layouts today at times, but one must be careful, particularly in today's climate. Recently, at a show, a youngster (about nine or ten I think) asked me something and I almost whisked him away to another layout to answer part of his question before I remembered to ask his mum. She just said 'of course', but things have changed so much since I first attended shows. 

[96701]

I had a small wire brush many years ago that was provided for cleaning up Suede shoes (remember those, geography teachers' favourites I'm told). I have built a few kits with WM boiler and parts and tender body. This brush was excellent for polishing up the WM boiler/firebox/smokebox; not so sure about the tenders as one had to be careful if there were 'rivets'. Haven't seen that brush for many years; wonder where it went?

Phil

Maybe Kenneth Clarke has it.

[robmcg]

Talking about how things have changed at shows, and reading your excellent posts Tony about metal vs plastic and other things, I am wondering if short-run production of metal models will ever be as affordable as they were around 1990.

 

It's perhaps rather off-topic for much UK modelling, but has to do with the question of mass-produced or hand-built, the latter being much-discussed here.

 

I recently bought a brass 12v DC model, made by Ajin of Korea in 1989-90, it is 1:64 'S' scale, of an NZR Ka class 4-8-4, originally $NZ1,000 plus 12.5% purchase tax, which equates to around UKP500.  It is superb, about 100 with variations were made, anecodotely. It runs on 00/H0 track, the prototype being 3' 6" gauge.

 

Today such models sell for about £700, but I do not know of there are any manufacturers making short runs of about 100 models. Ajin offered number and detail variations like coal or oil-fired, number of choice, and I ask whether there would be such a market for UK prototype models?

 

Anyway I am better known for my photo-editing skills, and show here an essentially unedited view of a Ka-class 4-8-4 of the New Zealand Government Railways, built in 1941 to a 1932 design, at the Hutt workshops where my parents met and near where I grew up.

71 engines were built, one, No.949 was damaged in the Tangiwai disaster of 24/12/1953 but was never repaired, purportedly because no crew would drive her out of respect for the deceased crew who made every attempt to stop the train as it approached a volcanic lahar torrent of water, their bodies were never found. The engine was in full reverse gear, brakes on, and actually reached the far bank, 6 full carriages were lost from a 12-total train, 151 died.

 

A second photo is the model on the 70' turntable at Paekakariki near Wellington, from where these engines took express and goods trains onwards into the high country at Taihape and beyond, including the Raurimu Spiral, 1-in-50 for 22 miles uncompensated for 7 1/2 chain radius curves. These engines could and did sustain 55mph with 400-ton expresses, as in the third photo at Linton, which has a background also by my schoolmate Russell Bidgood, in Kodachrome II.

 

The second photo was taken in 1965 when steam had nearly finished, that is me aged 14 by the shed carrying my £9/19/6d 'Regular Sprinty B'  camera! It is from a b+w picture by Russell Bidgood who is now a senior driver in Melbourne Aus.

 

Sorry if these photo are way off-thread Tony but they do show a way that manufactured brass models can be enjoyed, as well as my photo-editing habits!  Don't get me started on the nostalgia for steam days, but I will mention that I grew up around steam railways, and very much enjoy buying good models, hand-made or mass-produced.

 

 

Cheers,

 

 edited, mostly typos.

Edited September 25, 2015 by robmcg

[St Enodoc]

I had a small wire brush many years ago that was provided for cleaning up Suede shoes (remember those, geography teachers' favourites I'm told). I have built a few kits with WM boiler and parts and tender body. This brush was excellent for polishing up the WM boiler/firebox/smokebox; not so sure about the tenders as one had to be careful if there were 'rivets'. Haven't seen that brush for many years; wonder where it went?

Phil

I reckon some geography teacher nicked it.

[St Enodoc]

Copy of 20090628 001 ex-GWR 42xx 2-8-0T 4206.JPG

Tony, I was lucky enough to have this rather ancient Cotswold kit (and a Nu-Cast 16xx of which I haven't got a photo to hand) weathered by the late Paul Fletcher when he was demonstrating at the 1981 Leeds exhibition. It represents one of the St Blazey engines used on china clay workings, yet interestingly I don't think Paul used any white paint at all!

Here is 1664 posed on the embryonic Nancegwithey Viaduct after I finished laying track on both the main lines today. As mentioned above, the loco is a Nu-Cast kit that was weathered by Paul Fletcher at the 1981 Leeds show. The wagons and brake van (Kirk and Ratio respectively) were weathered by Barry O of this parish.

 

This loco has a claim to fame at Leeds. If you think of the well-known picture of a loco falling through the end wall of one of the Paris termini about 100 years ago you will get the idea.

[Barry O]

The lost loco returns!

So the wagons were weathered 39 years or so ago. Then I used paint washes (I think?) Now I would use ink and powders.
They have lasted well!
Baz

Edited September 26, 2015 by Barry O

[grob1234]

Following on from my previous post, my most-preferred drive is that provided by DJH. A variety of pre-assembled motor/gearboxes are available (all the ones in the previous post had to be made), and this feature has to be paid for - thus they're over £50.00. In case anyone thinks that's a bit steep, what you get is perfect performance and ease of installation. They're quieter than Portescaps and have great power. 

 

Most of the following are the GB2 type, more suitable for 'smaller' prototypes. That said, I installed one in a V2 for Gilbert Barnatt and it'll pull anything on his Peterborough North. I've just fitted one into another J69 I've just built - silky-smooth, quiet performance, as I hope more recent visitors will testify to.

 

4F 01.jpg 

 

Perfect in a replacement 4F chassis

 

B1 02.jpg

 

Because this Comet gearbox/Mashima combination ran just a tiny bit sweeter one way than the other, I turned it round so to speak (see later). It sits in its Comet frames underneath an old Bachmann B1 body (some person actually bought the original split-chassis - for £5.00; I felt ashamed, though he did see it running!)

 

N2 09.jpg

 

And the DJH 'box in an old Airfix N2. I assume the latest Hornby N2 runs much better than the Airfix original? 

 

DJH Klondike 02.jpg

 

I mentioned the pair of Klondikes in a previous post. Though these motor gearboxes are very sweet, almost invariably (as with any gearbox) they run just that tiny bit sweeter one way than the other (the law of sod dictates that this is usually in reverse for a Pacific). So, find out which is better, and configure it to suit. I hope viewers who saw the OO Klondike running at Pickering (on Salmon Pastures - thanks guys) and at Grantham on Grantham liked its smooth-running. 

 

I've not used many High-Level gearboxes, but my experience concludes that they're very good. However, I've never got on with the sort that has the final gear attached by Loctite (or similar). I much prefer a grub screw.

 

Finally, as for quiet running, whenever you see a J3 on Peterborough North, it's invariably in reverse. No matter how hard I tried with its London Road gear mount (provided as part of a review), it always came out quieter in reverse. 

 

I hope all this helps..................

This is all hugely helpful. Very nice to see the bare bones of the locos so to speak.

 

I shall heed the warnings with regard to the Gibson wheels, they sound a trifle fiddly for my liking. However, try as I might the closest I can find in the Markits catalogue on their website is LNER 10 spoke 3' 9" wheels (15mm) code BRe 3-9. 4' ones would be 16mm, not wanting to sound too pedantic, I would like to at least try and fit what is correct! Unless of course I am missing the obvious in which case I stand to be corrected!

 

The great news in all of this is that I have managed to persuade Mrs Tom that such a kit and accessories would be a great Christmas present, using negotiation skills Kofi Annan would be proud of. Jumping on this wave of progress I shall order my J69 and see what I can fit in it in terms of motor gear box combos. I envisage that it will be used as some sort of station pilot, and so should be reasonably powerful at slow speeds.

 

I have a video which I recall filming of the J69 that you mention. I'm just uploading it to YouTube now.

Edited September 26, 2015 by grob1234

[St Enodoc]

This is all hugely helpful. Very nice to see the bare bones of the locos so to speak.

 

I shall heed the warnings with regard to the Gibson wheels, they sound a trifle fiddly for my liking. However, try as I might the closest I can find in the Markits catalogue on their website is LNER 10 spoke 3' 9" wheels (15mm) code BRe 3-9. 4' ones would be 16mm, not wanting to sound too pedantic, I would like to at least try and fit what is correct! Unless of course I am missing the obvious in which case I stand to be corrected!

 

The great news in all of this is that I have managed to persuade Mrs Tom that such a kit and accessories would be a great Christmas present, using negotiation skills Kofi Annan would be proud of. Jumping on this wave of progress I shall order my J69 and see what I can fit in it in terms of motor gear box combos. I envisage that it will be used as some sort of station pilot, and so should be reasonably powerful at slow speeds.

 

I have a video which I recall filming of the J69 that you mention. I'm just uploading it to YouTube now.

Tom, way back in this topic I mentioned that I tended to use (old style) Romford wheels one size smaller than the so-called scale size, as the flanges are of course overscale and because they are bright metal they are what our eyes actually see rather than the painted wheel centres. Bearing in mind that real locos could easily lose 3 inches off the diameter due to tyre turning betwen works visits, this worked for me. So, for a GWR Hall I would have used 23 mm Romfords rather than 24 mm, and so on. Nowadays of course I just buy Bachmann RTR but that is another story.

[grob1234]

Thanks St Enodoc, sounds like I'm 99% of the way there then, which is good to know. I noticed that SE Finecast do a wheel set including axles etc for the J69, so this might be my preffered source of wheels for the kit.

 

Here is a link to the promised video upload:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKtVEsFybIU

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVh2nedeG7c

 

I think you can agree that the running is 'smooth'!

 

Edit: Now with viewable videos! 

Edited September 29, 2015 by grob1234

[jamie92208]

Definitely '98. In '96 we'd only just started exhibiting Stoke and it was after that. 

 

Having guests operate was something we always liked to do. In fairness, operation was quite easy - apart from one or two movements, just trains going round - but it was always good to hand the controllers to friends. Indeed, many guest operators became actual operators down the years; my thanks to them, and they know who they are. At times, without their help, we couldn't have run the layout. 

 

Occasionally, we'd let children have a go. The kids were vetted first, of course - shouty, pushy, ill-mannered ones, no chance. But quiet, well-mannered ones, with parental permission of course, were encouraged. It's good to see that happening on other layouts today at times, but one must be careful, particularly in today's climate. Recently, at a show, a youngster (about nine or ten I think) asked me something and I almost whisked him away to another layout to answer part of his question before I remembered to ask his mum. She just said 'of course', but things have changed so much since I first attended shows. 

 

I have always tried to encourage 'guest' operators and that isn't a pun on my surname.   Kids with appropriate permission are often very good operators and seem to pick up the concept of controlling speed very quickly, probably due to modern games.   I have very happy memories of my cousin and her 11 year old daughter standing on chairs (They are both from the vertically challenged part of my family gene pool,) to operate Long Preston at Ally Pally.  Recently I had a bright 3 year old operating Green Ayre when it was up for testing and he played happily and safely for about 20 minutes showing the loco off to his mum and grandma. I didn't realise till afterwards that after a couple of minutes I was happy to just leave him to it and trust him.

 

Jamie

 

Jamie

[glo41f]

Wow  what beauties the NZR locos are!  Are there any more at home? Liked the pictures of the real ones too. Thanks for introducing them to us who are rather set in our ways.

 

Martin Long

[St Enodoc]

Today is the 80th anniversary of the introduction of the Silver Jubilee, the 40th anniversary of the opening of the NRM at York and the 30th anniversary of the high-speed press run that relaunched the Tees-Tyne Pullman, which reached 144 mph between Darlington and York (I was at a meeting in the Boardroom at Doncaster, which was adjourned so we could watch it go by).

[jrg1]

Today is the 80th anniversary of the introduction of the Silver Jubilee, the 40th anniversary of the opening of the NRM at York and the 30th anniversary of the high-speed press run that relaunched the Tees-Tyne Pullman, which reached 144 mph between Darlington and York (I was at a meeting in the Boardroom at Doncaster, which was adjourned so we could watch it go by).

And nearly 50 years since the last Gresley Pacific was withdrawn

[Barry O]

And 40 years since we met!

 

Tony, I believe Fordley Park was at the Leeds Show in the Corn Exchange in 1976 or 77? First time I had seen a layout from the Wolverhampton team.

Baz

[LNER4479]

Today is the 80th anniversary of the introduction of the Silver Jubilee, the 40th anniversary of the opening of the NRM at York and the 30th anniversary of the high-speed press run that relaunched the Tees-Tyne Pullman, which reached 144 mph between Darlington and York (I was at a meeting in the Boardroom at Doncaster, which was adjourned so we could watch it go by).

And 190 years since the opening of the Stockton & Darlington Railway - which is the reason why 27th Sept keeps getting chosen for all these significant ER/LNER/NER-centric events!

[Bon Accord]

Talking about how things have changed at shows, and reading your excellent posts Tony about metal vs plastic and other things, I am wondering if short-run production of metal models will ever be as affordable as they were around 1990.

 

It's perhaps rather off-topic for much UK modelling, but has to do with the question of mass-produced or hand-built, the latter being much-discussed here.

 

I recently bought a brass 12v DC model, made by Ajin of Korea in 1989-90, it is 1:64 'S' scale, of an NZR Ka class 4-8-4, originally $NZ1,000 plus 12.5% purchase tax, which equates to around UKP500.  It is superb, about 100 with variations were made, anecodotely. It runs on 00/H0 track, the prototype being 3' 6" gauge.

 

Today such models sell for about £700, but I do not know of there are any manufacturers making short runs of about 100 models. Ajin offered number and detail variations like coal or oil-fired, number of choice, and I ask whether there would be such a market for UK prototype models?

 

Anyway I am better known for my photo-editing skills, and show here an essentially unedited view of a Ka-class 4-8-4 of the New Zealand Government Railways, built in 1941 to a 1932 design, at the Hutt workshops where my parents met and near where I grew up.

71 engines were built, one, No.949 was damaged in the Tangiwai disaster of 24/12/1953 but was never repaired, purportedly because no crew would drive her out of respect for the deceased crew who made every attempt to stop the train as it approached a volcanic lahar torrent of water, their bodies were never found. The engine was in full reverse gear, brakes on, and actually reached the far bank, 6 full carriages were lost from a 12-total train, 151 died.

 

A second photo is the model on the 70' turntable at Paekakariki near Wellington, from where these engines took express and goods trains onwards into the high country at Taihape and beyond, including the Raurimu Spiral, 1-in-50 for 22 miles uncompensated for 7 1/2 chain radius curves. These engines could and did sustain 55mph with 400-ton expresses, as in the third photo at Linton, which has a background also by my schoolmate Russell Bidgood, in Kodachrome II.

 

The second photo was taken in 1965 when steam had nearly finished, that is me aged 14 by the shed carrying my £9/19/6d 'Regular Sprinty B'  camera! It is from a b+w picture by Russell Bidgood who is now a senior driver in Melbourne Aus.

 

Sorry if these photo are way off-thread Tony but they do show a way that manufactured brass models can be enjoyed, as well as my photo-editing habits!  Don't get me started on the nostalgia for steam days, but I will mention that I grew up around steam railways, and very much enjoy buying good models, hand-made or mass-produced.

 

944_Ka_NZR_portrait30_1abc_r1200.jpg

964_paekok_Kas_1964_32a_r1200.jpg

954 _Ka_NZR_Linton_tablet_exchange_2abcdef_r1200.jpg

 

Cheers,

 

 edited, mostly typos.

 

Rob,

That's a lovely Ka. Are they still readily available second hand?

In my small NZ collection, I've a Kb from JG Kits (Christchurch) as well as a Ww from On line Models (Auckland), both beautifully built for me by Ian Hammond, as brass kits of that complexity are somewhat outwith my skill set.

[Focalplane]

When I lived in Houston (from 1980-2003) I used to visit the local model railway shops quite regularly. The one in Bellaire always had a cabinet full of Japanese and Korean built brass locomotives, for sale at what were quite reasonable prices at the time. These prices were dictated by the Brown Book, a compendium of most of the HO brass steam locomotives ever made for commercial sale.

 

What surprised me was how many of these beauties were still in the basic brass with no paint. Painted models were often cheaper to buy.

 

This market is still flourishing, though companies like Broadway Limited and MTH are now competing with Chinese made models that contain the same, or better, level of detail but with plastic body shells. DCC is now offered, along with sound and sometimes smoke.

 

The number of these individual models made could be quite limited and the rarity value is often reflected in the price. If it is remembered that some railroads had unique locomotive designs, the SP Cab in Front being a good example, then the market for such models could be quite restricted.

 

For anyone looking to see what can be available, try this dealer's web site:

 

Brasstrains.com

 

At random, here is a potential bargain:

 

http://www.brasstrains.com/Classic/Product/Detail/064863/HO-Brass-Model-Train-Hallmark-SP-T-NO-Sunbeam-P-14-4-6-2-Pacific-Streamlined-Unpainted

 

This brass pacific needs some upgrading but none of it would be too difficult. There were only a few of the prototypes ever streamlined, for use between Houston and Dallas.

 

(Note to self, don't get carried away, you have enough projects already!)

[coachmann]

In the UK, I was into Jap-Brass in the early 1970s and visited Sharp's of Sheffield brass boutique run by Margaret. It was a veritable Aladdin's cave and needless to say I came out with now't. I did set my sight high though when a Pennsy Duplexii 4-4-6-4 was spotted. I also had a British brass loco produced by a chap in Scotland who used to have the brass parts cut out in multipals so he could produce a run of identical locos. The model in question was a Stanier 2-6-0. Another product for Britain at that time was the Fulgurex GWR 'Castle'. A similar 'King' was produced afterwards by Johnny Walker and I painted the initial twenty-five for him. RTR-Brass followed on with GWR Panniers and Small Prairies before JW went to Korea for Britrail brass Black Fives and Jubilees plus a few short runs of Mucky ducks and Stanier 8F's. 

Edited September 27, 2015 by coachmann

[Mallard60022]

I must have gone to Brighton more than once then as I saw a layout there that I was later able to acquire by blind auction from the Crawley MRC. That would probably have been '96 or a little earlier. So in '98 it was that I went to Brighton specifically to see Stoke Summit; must have read about it in BRM or RM I suspect. I suspect it was also TW that was kind enough to chat to me that day as well as I admired the procession of ECML trains.

Time flies does it not.

Phil

[StephenB]

I was particularly taken by the photos in post 5869 after the track through the station had been laid by Norman Solomon but before anything else was done. Was there any particular reason for doing the station ares before the hidden sidings - just timing perhaps?

 

Stephen