Wright writes.....

[MJI]

Apologies for delay in getting back on this as I don't visit every day. I use the Upol Acid #8. Might seem expensive but you get what you pay for. It dries slower than usual primers so don't heat-dry it as it needs time to etch. I haven't tried the determined thumbnail test.....If it don't come off with marking tape its good enough for me.  I set my spray shop clock 2 hours on before spraying on colours. Only use it on top of bare metal or plastic, never on painted finish. Different colours are sprayed on half and hour apart thereafter so U-pol Acid #8 has speeded up my spraying process considerably..... (I used to leave the old primers 4 hours and more often overnight before spraying on top).

 

Cleaning brass etc before spraying..... I continue to use old fashioned non greasy and very effective Ajax (scourer powder).  Each to his own.

 

£7 cheaper on Ebay than Halfords

[Fat Controller]

Ta. Very handy to know.

 

I suppose other acid cleaners that might be in the household armoury could include Harpic, kettle descaler, or as I often used when my home-brew boiler element needed a clean, citric acid crystals, although I've some recollection that the latter are no longer readily available from home brew suppliers because a use for them was found by the vermin who prepare illegal drugs for idiots who want to ruin their lives.

 

A weak (safer) acid will obviously do the etching job more quickly if the solution is used hot (with appropriate care), within the heat tolerance of any solders, whitemetal parts, plastic items and adhesives.

Citric acid crystals were still available from our local 'home-brew' suppliers when last I looked; I used them as a 'flour improver' in my breadmaking.

[gr.king]

Good. That's at least one useful thing that hasn't been withdrawn or restricted to prevent idiots from harming themselves.....

[Tony Wright]

Tony, I have emailed you a picture of one of these cars in Maroon which will help.

 

I have a photo of the kitchen side of one in LNER days showing that the glass at that time was frosted but not white - you can see the form of some of the kitchen equipment through it. The upper panes of the large kitchen windows also appear to be clear. I have no date for this photo so they may have changed, but that's the only shot I have of that side of one of these vehicles.

 

Edit to say that looking at other photos, although the corridor side windows don't seem to have been white, the panelling behind them apparently was.

Many thanks, Jonathan; duly-received.

 

I think it proves that the corridor side windows were clear, complete with horizontal handrail. 

 

Can you post the picture on here? I don't have a clue how to. Interestingly E 667 E has been equipped with Gresley bogies. Even more interesting, at least to me on a personal level, is the date of the picture, July 1958. During the summer holidays of that year, I spent many days at Kiveton Park and Retford, observing the boat train on all occasions. Without exception, the loco hauling it was 61620 CLUMBER. Yet, though I recall the B17 vividly, I cannot remember the stock in its train, which will have included the Restaurant Car.

 

I have a photocopy from a Backtrack article which features one of these cars, the picture having been taken at Stratford in September 1957. The livery is carmine and cream and the kitchen-side windows appear to be white, or off-white. Its number is E 669 E and it still rides on its original Fox bogies. Curtains are are also present. Decisions, decisions.................

[wagonbasher]

Some most-useful tips regarding the preparation of brass-sided vehicles for painting; many thanks.

 

M&GNR RU 16.jpg

 

M&GNR RU 19.jpg

 

Having just about completed this D&S ex-GER Restaurant Car for service on the M&GNR bit of my railway, attention will need to be paid to its painting. 

 

My technique for this is to vigorously clean the finished model with CIF and water, using an old, but firm, toothbrush, thoroughly washing afterwards. I then spray the model with Halfords acrylic red primer. I've found no need for etched primers. The top-coat is then Halfords Ford Burgundy Red acrylic car paint, sprayed neat from the tin; three thin coats usually sufficing. 

 

M&GNR RU 20.jpg

 

Before any paint is applied, any model must be thoroughly tested first; here the car forms the first vehicle in the 'Leicester' (after the closure of the avoiding line at Spalding, it was then the last car in the train after reversal in the station). What a joy to build it was - a quite superlative kit. Making something like this gives me the greatest pleasure, on several counts. For one, I've made it myself, will paint it myself and will thus become uniquely mine (building things oneself is central to this thread in my view). Secondly, I cannot believe that any RTR manufacturer has it on its radar, so a model such as this will always have to be built - and, abstracting myself from this statement, the hobby is the richer for it. At the moment it's also richer for having the need to build a B12/3. I built this one from a PDK kit, which Ian Rathbone painted perfectly. With Hornby's RTR version on the horizon, what chance for a kit-built B12/3 in the near-future? Little, I imagine, but the down-side as far as I'm concerned will be layout after layout showing one (I hope with modifications). Still, it should be a splendid model, though I'm happy to have mine right now. 

 

The second car, a Stanier Open Composite, also needed to be kit-built, on this occasion not by me. It came as part of selection of quite-well-built BSL bogie-less carriages (thanks Baz), to which I fitted bogies and concertina gangways, and weathered the underframes. As layout carriages, they look just fine.

 

Finally, a couple of questions, please. Were these ex-GER Restaurant Cars branded 'Restaurant Car' or 'Buffet' when painted maroon? In carmine and cream it was the former (which I might turn this out in). And, were the windows on the corridor side of the kitchen portion white, as with Gresley cars? The kitchen side windows were definitely white. 

 

If you'd like to see this car before it's painted, it'll be on my demonstration stand at the Chiltern Modellers' Day, at Parmiter's School, High Elms Lane, Watford WD25 OUU, on Saturday July the 16th. This is an event well-worth attending; contact exhibition@cmra.org.uk or chairman@cmra.org.uk. Telephone 01438 715580 or 01206 523686. 

Tony.

 

slightly conserned..  you say "using an old, but firm, toothbrush, thoroughly washing afterwards".  I hope that is the coach you are washing and not the toothbrush ready for use on your teeth.

 

Andy

[jwealleans]

Can you post the picture on here?

I didn't as I wasn't sure who holds the copyright - it was sent to me and I don't recall what publication it was scanned from. Mods, please remove if this is in breach of whatever-it-might-be-in-breach-of.

 

 

Gresley bogies seem to have been quite a common alteration on these cars, I have a couple of photos from the GER Society Journal showing the same change. E667E served on the North Country Continental in the 1950s along with the GE TO behind. The same combination of vehicles was also used on the Easterling, which happily means that the one I built for Thurston can find employment on the new club layout as well.

 

Curtains in an RF would be de rigeur - yours is a buffet car as I recall so maybe such luxuries would have been removed?

Edited July 12, 2018 by jwealleans

[billbedford]

Adapt the chassis to take tha Brassmasters Clemonson underframe and it will go round your corners!

 

 

 

 

But see this thread first

[Tony Wright]

Tony.

 

slightly conserned..  you say "using an old, but firm, toothbrush, thoroughly washing afterwards".  I hope that is the coach you are washing and not the toothbrush ready for use on your teeth.

 

Andy

Andy,

 

I'm more concerned about your spelling!

[Tony Wright]

True to form, I can't keep just one project on the go. 

 

 

Despite 'retiring', I've been tempted to build professionally again, in this case a model of Big Bertha for a client in the Far East. Though designed for just four axles, the Poppyswood jig quite happily accommodates a ten-coupled chassis, ensuring accurate alignment; as illustrated here.

 

Yesterday, the same jig was used to erect a six-couple chassis with one of my pupils, just starting in the mysteries of loco-building. Delighted with the accuracy of the chassis, he can't wait to carry on, Cancer Research benefiting from his donations for my helping him. On Monday, another pupil ran the A1 and V2 he's building. They both flew round LB, hauling very heavy trains. An RTR Pacific was tried on one of the trains. It slipped all the way round, just about making it. Long live kit-building, at least on my railway. 

 

 

 

I've also started one of Isinglass's 3D-printed carriages (that's etched brass, resin and 3D-printed carriages in a month!). The plastic is very resilient to being filed or cut, but I'll see how the finished thing turns out. Does anyone else have experience of building these carriages, in this case a Gresley GE shorty. 

 

 

[geoff west]

Tony,

 

I am pretty sure you told me on monday to work on one project at a time.

[ROY@34F]

Tony,

I sent you a PM yesterday, and don't think you've seen it. Quite forgivable of course, particularly us of a certain age !

 

Roy.

[Focalplane]

Tony,

 

I am pretty sure you told me on monday to work on one project at a time.

 

Yes, my own New Years Resolution was "focus" and for the first time I am keeping to it!  Well, as best as I can given the desire to open unopened kit boxes. . . . .

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Tony,

   That 3D Isinglass coach looks promising, however I fear that central roof join is going to be difficult to disguise and blend in?    BK

[Tony Wright]

Tony,

 

I am pretty sure you told me on monday to work on one project at a time.

I also told you to do as as say; not as I do. Once a teacher.............................

[Tony Wright]

Hi Tony,

   That 3D Isinglass coach looks promising, however I fear that central roof join is going to be difficult to disguise and blend in?    BK

Brian,

 

At the moment the roof sections are just sitting (not 'sat', as is prevalent today) on top of the coach body, which comes in four sections, plus ends. It could well be difficult to blend in the joint. I'll report accordingly, but it'll be on my stand at the CMRA  Modellers' Day in a fortnight's time. 

[Focalplane]

Hi Tony,

   That 3D Isinglass coach looks promising, however I fear that central roof join is going to be difficult to disguise and blend in?    BK

Think like a plasterer!

[Headstock]

Some most-useful tips regarding the preparation of brass-sided vehicles for painting; many thanks.

 

M&GNR RU 16.jpg

 

M&GNR RU 19.jpg

 

Having just about completed this D&S ex-GER Restaurant Car for service on the M&GNR bit of my railway, attention will need to be paid to its painting. 

 

My technique for this is to vigorously clean the finished model with CIF and water, using an old, but firm, toothbrush, thoroughly washing afterwards. I then spray the model with Halfords acrylic red primer. I've found no need for etched primers. The top-coat is then Halfords Ford Burgundy Red acrylic car paint, sprayed neat from the tin; three thin coats usually sufficing. 

 

M&GNR RU 20.jpg

 

Before any paint is applied, any model must be thoroughly tested first; here the car forms the first vehicle in the 'Leicester' (after the closure of the avoiding line at Spalding, it was then the last car in the train after reversal in the station). What a joy to build it was - a quite superlative kit. Making something like this gives me the greatest pleasure, on several counts. For one, I've made it myself, will paint it myself and will thus become uniquely mine (building things oneself is central to this thread in my view). Secondly, I cannot believe that any RTR manufacturer has it on its radar, so a model such as this will always have to be built - and, abstracting myself from this statement, the hobby is the richer for it. At the moment it's also richer for having the need to build a B12/3. I built this one from a PDK kit, which Ian Rathbone painted perfectly. With Hornby's RTR version on the horizon, what chance for a kit-built B12/3 in the near-future? Little, I imagine, but the down-side as far as I'm concerned will be layout after layout showing one (I hope with modifications). Still, it should be a splendid model, though I'm happy to have mine right now. 

 

The second car, a Stanier Open Composite, also needed to be kit-built, on this occasion not by me. It came as part of selection of quite-well-built BSL bogie-less carriages (thanks Baz), to which I fitted bogies and concertina gangways, and weathered the underframes. As layout carriages, they look just fine.

 

Finally, a couple of questions, please. Were these ex-GER Restaurant Cars branded 'Restaurant Car' or 'Buffet' when painted maroon? In carmine and cream it was the former (which I might turn this out in). And, were the windows on the corridor side of the kitchen portion white, as with Gresley cars? The kitchen side windows were definitely white. 

 

If you'd like to see this car before it's painted, it'll be on my demonstration stand at the Chiltern Modellers' Day, at Parmiter's School, High Elms Lane, Watford WD25 OUU, on Saturday July the 16th. This is an event well-worth attending; contact exhibition@cmra.org.uk or chairman@cmra.org.uk. Telephone 01438 715580 or 01206 523686. 

 

Hi Tony,

 

it may be of interest to you that the Cafeteria car conversions of these catering carriages had grey interiors, with grey curtains as originally rebuilt. When they received the maroon livery the curtains became orange. Like the Buffet car concept, they were unclassified, so there may be some standardisation in liveries. The Cafeteria car conversions also retained their fox bogies.

 

It's great to see some rather interesting carriage projects from all contributors.

[Focalplane]

On the subject of coach interiors, yesterday I visited a model shop in Porthmadog that stocks Humbrol paints. There is no matt match for dark red second/third class seats that comes close. First class seats might be Humbrol 104 (matt blue) but this is also a guess on my part. Does anyone know what paints should be used for early BR era seats?

 

Edit to add, and curtains?

Edited July 1, 2016 by Focalplane

[billbedford]

Finally, a couple of questions, please. Were these ex-GER Restaurant Cars branded 'Restaurant Car' or 'Buffet' when painted maroon? In carmine and cream it was the former (which I might turn this out in). And, were the windows on the corridor side of the kitchen portion white, as with Gresley cars? The kitchen side windows were definitely white. 

 

 

Those that were converted to buffets, i.e. 61495, 61496 & 61457 were branded 'Buffet' otherwise they were branded 'Restaurant Car', except for those that were converted to cafeteria cars.

 

The corridor widows beside the the kitchen were clear, at least just after nationalisation. As far as I can see all GE coaches were built with 8' plate bogies, though some acquired Fox's after the grouping.

[queensquare]

I also told you to do as as say; not as I do. Once a teacher.............................

I was once asked by somebody if I ever finished anything having spotted numerous part built projects on my bench.

 

Always, I said, but rarely in the same order they are started!

 

Jerry

[gr.king]

The corridor widows

 

Seems a little harsh to make widows stand in the corridor while others sit.

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.

[Headstock]

I find myself engaged in the complete rebuild of the northbound exit lines on LSGC, due to water damage caused by the Boxing day floods. As a result work on stock is proceeding at a slower pace then I would like. Hopefully it should all be completed by our next exhibition in August. The Gresley FO still awaits door furniture, gangways, the painting of the step-boards and buffers, window transfers, painting of the interior before it is dropped in place and a bit more weathering to the roof. At least there isn't a corridor for the widows to stand in.

[ROY@34F]

Tony, 

I saw my message "envelope" flag up with a message from you, but it's not there ! Whatever is it with these things .

 

 

Roy.

[Tony Wright]

Tony, 

I saw my message "envelope" flag up with a message from you, but it's not there ! Whatever is it with these things .

 

 

Roy.

Roy,

 

I've PM'd you (is that the right grammar?); apologies for not replying immediately, but I've been busy. 

 

Busy, among other things, with sorting out the late Gerald Scarborough's model railway stuff for his widow and family. Today, Mo and I attended the Spalding swapmeet, where we returned with but a few wagons. Everything else went - locos, carriages, wagons and so on. Something else which went was a Jubilee; however, it was not paid for - it just went. It's a times like this that I regret being an atheist. That might seem a strange comment, but a theist believes (or so I'm told) in an afterlife, where, dependent on how good or bad a life one has led, there is a reckoning. How can a fellow human being stoop so low as to steal something from a widow? Yes, over £2,000 will be handed over by me this week, but it should have been over £2,000, and £50.00. In the final reckoning, several thousand pounds will have been made, but that theft galls me. 

 

In case the perpetrator of the theft is reading this, I cannot write my true sentiments because the firewall would intercept them. What I will say is that I hope he (I don't think it was a she) is a theist (unlikely?), and thus looks forwards to meeting Beelzebub! 

 

Rather than dwell on the dismal, may I thank all those who bought Gerald's stuff; particularly the generous trader who took the residuals at the end? Thanks, too, to Keith, Ray, Dave and George. They know who they are.

 

In between, I've been fiddling some more with the M&GNR overbridge. 

 

 

 

At the moment, it's just a photographic mock-up, but I've beefed it up by adding the inner walls and parapets. It's still a mock-up, but it looks better. In time, I'll build a proper one. One dodge for going on/off scene (even via a ridiculously tight curve) is, rather than have the curve uniform, have it as generous as possible in view, but take up the slack out of sight (as is visible in the lower picture). Yes, it does mean a hidden radius of 24", but my stock can cope with that. 

Edited July 3, 2016 by Tony Wright

[coachmann]

My curve leaves the shed at 60" radius to match an adjacent turnout, but the hidden curve is 30" radius. A bridge remains a good dodge when leaving a scenic part of the layout but I have made attempts in the past to go through a backscene hole without a bridge. I'm sure it is possible with a high enough hole, a backscene continuing onto the 'hidden' section and trackside buildings or trees to hide the curve. It is work in progress at Oswestry seeing as the real line disappeared around a sharp curve.

Edited July 3, 2016 by coachmann