Wright writes.....

[kandc_au]

One big problem is how many people buy a kit and then build and are able to give comments in a two month period? I would suggest very few kits are even started in such short time frame. I am building one at the moment that I have had for over thee years .

I don't thin k the time period matters myself.

I watch threads and blogs where there is a great deal of time between sections of the builds.

Main thing is so long as it is kept together.

 

Khris

[Jol Wilkinson]

No wonder our kit manufacturers are struggling ... not only are most of them (it appears) so very lacking in literacy and drawing skills (even though they miraculously can draw their product to enable etches or computer programs to be produced) that they can't be expected to prepare a decent set of instructions for showing a novice how to build the things ... but it seems they are also too diffident, too shy, too lacking in self-confidence, too short of time, too fearful of criticism, or maybe even too downright untrustworthy to 'rate' their own product in terms of ease of build, the way so many of the plastic kit manufacturers routinely do without fuss or trauma.

 

(Note, incidentally, that I'm talking only about rating the ease or otherwise of building; not the accuracy, value-for-money, prospective popularity or anything else).

 

But maybe Jol Wilkinson is right; maybe it actually needs some some organisation or person of high profile to take a visible lead to start things off.  In which case I have a suggestion of how it could be done.

 

Said organisation or person - and for credibility it could for example be a mainstream magazine, a leading website, an 'interest group', a major Club, or even an individual of high reputation as a kit-builder and/or reviewer - prepares and publishes a set of "Draft Guidelines" for a rating system.  They allow (say) a 2-month Consultation Period for comment and suggested amendment.  The responses are collated and sensible ones used to amend the Guidelines, which are then widely promulgated as a standard to which manufacturers themselves can voluntarily measure and rate their products against.  If they don't want to, they don't have to ... but 'reputation' will probably soon do it for them anyway.  Nor does a purchaser have to be put-off if they are really determined - it's only guidance, not compulsion.  

 

The biggest reservation people seem to have about the idea of rating kits - especially loco kits - in general seems to be the 'soldering' issue.  I respectfully suggest that with a little thought people will realise this is a boojum.  If, for example, we visualise a scale of 1 - 5, then this particular aspect might be described thus:

 

[1]  No soldering required - only adhesive [specify generic type, e.g.polystyrene cement]

 

[2]  Some basic soldering required.  If you are new to this, the technique is described in a number of 'how to' railway modelling books, for example .... [name two or three readily-available ones]

 

and so on, up to ...

 

[5]  Kit requires experienced soldering skills to assemble; indeed you may also need to make from scratch or commission some parts that are not commercially available in order to complete the model.  

 

Is that really so very implausible to envisage?

Your first paragraph illustrate what appears to be a lack of understanding of the model railway kit "industry" and how it has evolved. It is also frankly insulting to those involved in it.

 

If the concept of "difficulty ratings" for products that are being sold to responsible adults is such a good one, then why hasn't it already happened? Probably because those who think it is such a good idea - like yourself - also think it is another persons responsibility to create it.

 

People build kits because;

1. They want a model that isn't otherwise available.
2. They enjoy building things.
3. Both of these.

 

People who don't build kits probably don't do so because;

1. They prefer to buy RTR items and are happy to build their model railway around what is readily available.
2. They see kit building as difficult, in part because of comments like yours about quality of kits and instructions.
3. They lack the required skills because they didn't learn at school or their local club doesn't provide guidance/mentoring or may even have a "that's too difficult" culture.

 

Making kits and bits easier to find, creating an arbitrary (and debatable) standards system for ease of construction/skill levels won't do much to create new converts to kit building.

 

What is needed is to change peoples attitude to what they want from a model railway. Something easy that they can build without challenging themselves too much but will be pretty much run of the mill, or something "exceptional" that reflects their own efforts. Whether the majority of modellers would get so much satisfaction from the latter is debatable. Being part of the herd, defined by what you buy and own, is what works for many people in all works of life. Why else would you join the Hornby or Bachmann collectors clubs? Having a large collection of RTR  locos and stock, running on Peco track and with RTP buildings is what many "modellers" are happy with.

 

Rather than criticise those that produce kits, why not support them and do something positive to promote model making as a rewarding and satisfying hobby. I'll leave it up to you and the other ideas men to work out how to do that.

[kandc_au]

AFAIC the jury is still out on whether railway modelling is in terminal decline and who and how new blood should be attracted. But it has always struck me that the hobby has a very wide ranging remit (skills, subjects, approaches, etc.,). Unfortunately, a very narrow focus is the face most often presented (at exhibitions, in the press, and so on) that gives the impression only steam trains can or should be modelled. There is much more (and more than just other traction types) that the younger generation is more likely to engage with in real life, find inspiration from and may be encouraged to model.

 

G

Grahame,

We are different over here. The main focus is what is now out at the time...Currently nearly everything new is diseasl.

When Japanese brass and Korean was cheap to build it was steam.

I do appreciate that things are different in the UK, hence why I continually say a lot of you guys do not know how lucky you are there!

 

Khris

[Michael Edge]

I have been hearing about the terminal decline of this hobby since about 1962, it doesn't seem to have happened yet.

I am old enough to have started building locos from scratch because there were no kits and even when there were I couldn't afford them out of my pocket money. Since then I've spent many years earning a living out of model railways and many will have heard the story about the origin of Judith Edge kits - to quote the lady herself " I'm fed up of hearing you complaining and swearing about kits, you design better ones and I'll sell them". 

"How easy are they to build?" is one of the most frequent questions we are asked at exhibitions, we always try to answer this as honestly as possible, even to the extent of trying to talk someone out of buying one of the more difficult ones. It isn't an easy question to answer, all our kits are designed to make the job as easy as possible, not as complicated as possible or fanatically accurate but differences arise simply because of the way the full size loco was designed and built. A simple 3 box Hunslet  DH is a lot less complicated than an LMS Jackshaft DE and there's nothing I can do about that.

One of the most depressing comments we hear is along the lines of "I don't have the skill or patience to do anything like that", we do try to encourage them to have a go and point out that nobody was born with these skills but it usually falls on deaf ears.

[Focalplane]

Regarding kit instructions and after reading many of the comments above, I have to think that there is a world of difference between 4mm and 7mm scale kit instructions. Not that all of the latter are perfect, but those I have built have excellent instructions, in one case a bound booklet with numerous colour photos. There are also errata notes on the kit builder's web site to correct for errors!

 

While it can be argued that 7mm kits cost two or three times the price of 4mm kits, the likely total turnover of a 4mm kit should more than make up for this in terms of total turnover per kit design.

[micklner]

Time for a kit build. This is a Arthur K LNER B15 NER S2 on the workbench at the moment. Ready for painting . 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As to instructions , this is a old Connesieur LNER N10 kit I recently bought via eBay. I have no idea how old this kit must be ? The marking of every part on the etch, could be done to every etched kit being produced, and makes life so much easier, for a novice to a expert builder . All placings are marked, simply superb. If it goes as good, when built as good as my Y7 from the same maker it will be 5* .

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

Once again, some incredibly interesting (and provocative points of view). My thanks, as always, for those contributing who make this one of the most stimulating threads on this site. 

 

If I may comment on a few points, please? 

 

It's likely that in 4mm scale just about every 'popular' steam loco has been available at one point or another, many duplicated (example; A1/A3, Jamieson, Wills, SE Finecast, DJH, Pro-Scale, Finney - any others?). Many are now no longer available, either because they've been superseded, the manufacturer(s) have gone or the more recent improvements in RTR have rendered them less likely to sell. The 'disappeared' ones do turn up for sale second hand from time to time. 

 

While it's true there appears to be a preponderance of steam-outline kits over diesel/electric outline, one has to ask the question 'why?'. I think there are two principal reasons. For one, there have been far more prototypes, and two (perhaps more importantly), there is far less interest in more 'modern' traction. I'd better explain. I've stated on many occasions how lucky I was to have a boyhood when steam was still supreme on our home railways. That vast, immediate post-War 'baby boomer' generation (of which I'm part of - 71 this year) which is principally driving the hobby right now either as purchasers, exhibitors or attendees at exhibitions. Look around any exhibition and do a broad demographic of the (mainly) blokes you see.

 

As a personal example to support my contention of greater interest in steam-outline, and this has nothing to do with (older) age, may I cite the following example(s), please? Over the last five years it's been my pleasure/privilege to either talk to or assist younger modellers. Their ages have ranged from 12 to 16, and there have been at least 25 who've visited LB in that time. In every case (yes, EVERY case), not one of them is in the least bit interested in the trains they saw as smaller children and certainly not what they see now. They all model steam-outline. When asked why, the answer is always the same; 'Today's railways are just boring!'

 

There is a 'second' generation of enthusiasts so to speak - those for whom BR corporate blue provided their trainspotting fayre. Though not as big as the steam-age trainspotting generation, there is a reasonable support it would seem for the making of models of the period. Reasonable enough for those interested in the period to buy the likes of the Irwell bookazines I'm writing (for that, many thanks). After that, the level of interest in real railways seems to 'fall off a cliff', at least in terms of it being a mainstream hobby. My own interest in real railways ceased over 20 years ago, with the loss of the locomotive-hauled passenger train, the disappearance of so many loco types (to be replaced by just a few, really ugly, types) and the destruction of so much of the traditional railway infrastructure.

 

Speaking of my next bookazine, can anyone identify the trains in the following pictures, please?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many thanks in anticipation.

 

Carrying on, whether a 'points/grading/degree of difficulty' system for kits could ever be produced is a very difficult to say. As Mike Edge has so correctly suggested, nobody has been born with all the knowledge necessary to 'build a kit', but we are all born with certain innate (potential) abilities. I can speak from personal experience of this as an ex-teacher (of art). I could tell straight away in a bunch of first-years who would eventually sail through A level art (not as an 11 year old - though one or two could have; they were that talented) just by the way they rapidly picked up things. Just in same way that my PE teaching colleagues knew who would make the First X1 (in cricket/football) in later years. And, those who'd be last-picked for a schoolboy team, shoved in goal because they were useless and then given a good 'kicking' by their peers because they let the ball through! Schools used to be tough.

 

Taking that 'skill factor' into kit-building, as a model railway tutor down the years I've come across some 'pupils' (obviously, no names) who despite having an excellent tutor (not me), an excellent kit, an excellent set of instructions, an excellent tool kit and excellent facilities, still just make a complete hash of the whole thing. It's been (fortunately) very rare in my one-to-one tutoring, but it has happened (my poor teaching?). I'm then motivated to ask the questions 'Why are you indulging in railway modelling? Why not take up a hobby in which you can participate in a practical way?' In these politically correct times, I risk potential prosecution under some 'uman rights legislation for 'denying' such 'modellers' to do as they please. If they do stay in the hobby, it's my experience that they rely on RTR and/or get others to do their modelling for them. That said, they have every right to do that and they do provide employment for professional model-makers. 

 

On some rare occasions I'm (very selfishly) drawn towards a 'so what?' attitude. When I see some elevated to high status as it were (via mass-communication?) without having done the 'hard yards' of building models, exhibiting down the years, writing (magazine) articles by the shed load and showing actual examples of what they've personally made (the loud-voiced critic leaning on a barrier at a show?), it makes me consider drawing up the metaphorical drawbridge. I hope without appearing pompous, I reckon I can do most things in railway modelling for/by myself up to a standard which suits me (not to mean it's high). That I choose not to is down to my hypocrisy, indolence and my (lucky) ability to horse-trade skills. Obviously, I exclude the ability to install or understand DCC in my list of 'attributes'. All the above said, I still get a great 'buzz' from seeing a loco chassis someone has built for the first time just purr along the track without jerking, fuss, failure or derailment. My helping the builder (in a very small way) then makes it all worth while. It's made even more worthwhile when (very quickly) they no longer need my assistance. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Poggy1165]

I find it quite telling that you can buy a plastic kit for a Spitfire in several different scales, but I don't believe there's an equivalent kit for Flying Scotsman in any. Now, if it isn't worth investing whatever it costs to produce a plastic kit of Flying Scotsman, then no other loco is going to be viable.

 

Why am I mentioning plastic kits? Because I think many, perhaps most, beginners are put off by the idea of having to do any soldering. That's before we get to the metal forming which is a part of most etched kits, indeed all except the very simplest. Why are they shy of these tasks? Because they've never been taught, and even an etched wagon kit, never mind a loco, is a substantial investment.

 

So to promote kit-building, the way forward is education, education, and education. Even that will involve persuading people to invest time and money in courses, and the majority will be hard to persuade.

 

I notice that Mr Waterman is starting to produce good quality steam kits in some form of plastic or resin that look as if they will be easy to put together. At the Doncaster O Gauge event he had a very nice L&Y 0-6-0 on his stall, but I suspect that like his equivalent diesel kits it will not be dirt cheap. This sort of technology may prove to be the way forward, but it's early days yet. I don't think there's anything equivalent in 4mm scale to the Waterman diesel range.

[gr.king]

Time for a kit build. This is a Arthur K LNER B15 NER S2 on the workbench at the moment. Ready for painting . 

 

fullsizeoutput_69.jpeg

 

 

 

It looks lovely Mick. It's interesting that the B15s served their owners well, for quite a long time. Although described in the RCTS 2B book as being tricky to manage at times, their small grates and shallow fireboxes / ashpans don't seem to have been quite the same target for arm-chair criticism as the very similar arrangements on many of Robinson's 4-6-0s.

[gr.king]

Regarding that earlier suggestion that we need some sort of "hub" seller of loco and other kit-building / scratch-building parts, should this idea not be considered against the collapse (in the 1990's?) of W & H models who were, at the time, close to being a universal stockist? I know that times have moved on, but has the market and the potential for profit improved? It doesn't sound to me that it has. Dave Cleal's Mainly Trains was once a fairly comprehensive supplier too, but it would seem that nobody fancied taking up the challenge when he wanted to retire.

[APOLLO]

Tony, D440 above is newly built and the 1T60 headcode denotes a "running in" test train, usually Crewe to Carlisle. These runs were very common through Wigan back in the late 60's. Not just D400'ers (as we called them), but other EE locos also (Type !'s & 3's)

 

Here's two 1T60's for the price of one !. Both brand new at Crewe Works. Can't remember the date. Numbers look like D441 & D442, around 1968/9. We visited Crewe works many times on a Sunday back then.

 

 

 

 

Here is a southbound 1T60 passing Wigan Springs Branch (undated - late 60's)

 

 

 

 

 

And another, southbound, Rylands sidings just north of Wigan

 

 

I took all these photos.

 

Brit15

Edited August 10, 2017 by APOLLO

[allan downes]

I find it quite telling that you can buy a plastic kit for a Spitfire in several different scales, but I don't believe there's an equivalent kit for Flying Scotsman in any. Now, if it isn't worth investing whatever it costs to produce a plastic kit of Flying Scotsman, then no other loco is going to be viable.

 

Why am I mentioning plastic kits? Because I think many, perhaps most, beginners are put off by the idea of having to do any soldering. That's before we get to the metal forming which is a part of most etched kits, indeed all except the very simplest. Why are they shy of these tasks? Because they've never been taught, and even an etched wagon kit, never mind a loco, is a substantial investment.

 

So to promote kit-building, the way forward is education, education, and education. Even that will involve persuading people to invest time and money in courses, and the majority will be hard to persuade.

 

I notice that Mr Waterman is starting to produce good quality steam kits in some form of plastic or resin that look as if they will be easy to put together. At the Doncaster O Gauge event he had a very nice L&Y 0-6-0 on his stall, but I suspect that like his equivalent diesel kits it will not be dirt cheap. This sort of technology may prove to be the way forward, but it's early days yet. I don't think there's anything equivalent in 4mm scale to the Waterman diesel range.

 

The way foreward indeed, Poggy !

 

Producing loco kits in plastic certainly wouldn't be anything new as Airfix were doing it decades ago and many were even motorized and even I managed to glue one or two together.

 

Of course, surely there would have to be a certain amount of metal required by way of the wheels, side rods and valve gear and, if so, I would suggest that the latter comes ready assembled - or, better still, a completely assembled running chassis including motor and electrics and if the kits were designed to sit on a commercial chassis such as Hornby or Bachmann ( nothing new of course in some fields ) then so much the better.

 

So, Poggy. If you can get Mr Waterman to produce one, then who knows, even I might be able to put it together which would be a turn up for the books !

 

Allan

[Clearwater]

On universal stockers, Wizard seem to do a pretty good job of progressively adding different products to their site. With p&p, I usually end up spending a bit more than intended though! What that type of shopping misses is the ability to get that nugget of advice from the guy behind the counter and sometimes a quick demo of how to do something.

 

David

[allan downes]

 We talk about the decline in the model railway industry but when I was at boarding school our Housemaster's brother set up his three rail trainset in the house library for all of us to drool over.This then led to many boys sending off for the Basset Lowke catalogue  to such an extent that prep papers were getting less and less attention as boys planned epic layouts for when they left school the outcome of which was a promised stately six of the best compliments of the Headmaster, the arm of a Chesterfield and a yard of rattan  and, since in those days six of the best meant just that, then the interest in model railways died overnight and had nothing whatsoever to do with the decline of public interest. A Boarding school 'sixer' could take care of that all on its own !

 

Allan 

[Mallard60022]

 We talk about the decline in the model railway industry but when I was at boarding school our Housemaster's brother set up his three rail trainset in the house library for all of us to drool over.This then led to many boys sending off for the Basset Lowke catalogue  to such an extent that prep papers were getting less and less attention as boys planned epic layouts for when they left school the outcome of which was a promised stately six of the best compliments of the Headmaster, the arm of a Chesterfield and a yard of rattan  and, since in those days six of the best meant just that, then the interest in model railways died overnight and had nothing whatsoever to do with the decline of public interest. A Boarding school 'sixer' could take care of that all on its own !

 

Allan 

Was that school Approved Allan? Yaroo!

A. Quelch.

[jjb1970]

With regard to the future of the hobby there is a fundamental difference between the hobby being in decline, and being in terminal decline. The evidence seems to point to the hobby having been in decline for many years. Model shops are now something of a rarity for large parts for the country, RTR production runs are smaller and from what I can few children want to receive a train set as their “big present” at Christmas. If I look at the age profile of the model railway enthusiasts that I meet in person it is clearly quite high. The RTR sector is thriving in some ways, with a more diverse range of suppliers producing models to previously unheard of standards of fidelity to prototype and we are seeing RTR models released of types which were niche for kit producers never mind RTR producers at one time. On the other hand, runs are smaller, there is increasing use of crowd funding and producers expect to amortise development costs over a single run or at least a very small number of runs. A hobby being in decline is not the same thing as a hobby being in terminal decline however. Yes, the hobby is smaller but it is still there, and I expect there will always be a hobby of model railways, for my lifetime at any rate. Although the hobby is smaller, those who remain often seem to be a pretty dedicated bunch with deep(ish….) pockets. The hobby will never be the mainstream mass market one it perhaps once was, but there are plenty of niche hobbies which not only survive but prosper as small ones for dedicated enthusiasts. So while I recognise the decline of the hobby, I also think that the future of the hobby is brighter than many believe it to be. Although the age profile is high, there seem to be a lot of people returning to the hobby after having left it many years ago, people who are married and whose children are now quite independent and who have disposable income. And there are still children who join the hobby.

 

On kits and difficulty rating, I think the basic concept could be quite straightforward and then implemented by producers. Consider the materials (injection moulded plastic? Resin? 3D printed? Whitemetal? Brass?), the degree of work needed for the materials (is it straight assembly? Do you need to shape and form brass?), the means of joining parts (soldering? Glue? Screwed fasteners? Friction fit?) etc. You could use a 1 – 5 scale, or maybe traffic lights (green = basic entry level kit for beginners, amber = for average modellers possessing the fundamental skills of kit building, red = requires advanced skills and suitable only for the more experienced modeller and maybe an additional level to indicate something which is more assisted scratch build than kit).

 

Something to keep in mind is that people do still enjoy making things and being creative. Both of my kiddies enjoy making things. My wife loves sugar craft and baking. I have a colleague who has exhibited his paintings in art galleries around the world. There are lots of enthusiastic amateur car restorers, gardeners, home improvement buffs, artists, musicians etc. Many people invest serious time and effort in developing sporting skills. People do still enjoy challenging hobbies and interests, stretching themselves and learning things. The problem is not that the world has forgotten how to do anything more than open a box, the problem (if indeed it is a problem) is that fewer and fewer seem to be satisfying these desires through modelling. The market is there for people that might be persuaded to build kits if the hobby can hook them. And to hook new entrants I think it has to be more approachable and to meet the sort of expectations people have for premium products, which would include usable instructions.

[Tony Wright]

With regard to the perception of a decline in the hobby (or otherwise), I think there's no doubt that there's been a complete decline in an interest in today's real railways among the young. Two professional railwaymen visited on Tuesday (they both fizz past my house every day at the controls of a Class 91 or HST) and they state that along the length of the ECML there are no young trainspotters to be seen. There are still trainspotters (particularly at Doncaster) but they're still the ones who were trainspotters 40-50-60 years ago! 

 

I've mentioned this before, but the school I taught at for most of my career in Wolverhampton was adjacent to the Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury line. When I moved there, in 1976, many of the boys would spend their lunchtimes adjacent to the fence, 'copping' the contemporary diesel classes which went by. When I left the school in 1992, there was none. I used to organise shed visits at weekends for those who were interested (the school had a mini bus), and the lads would always catch my attention by telling me what they'd seen on their trainspotting escapades at weekends or in the holidays. Can you imagine that happening in any school today?

 

It's not axiomatic that every railway enthusiast becomes a railway modeller, but every modeller I know is (or has been) interested in real railways (I don't mean preserved ones, though are they the potential lifeline?). Thus, if one counts the years forward, then will there be anyone interested in model railways, other than it being an interest in its own right - not something generated by the real thing?  

[allan downes]

Was that school Approved Allan? Yaroo!

A. Quelch.

 

Not quite, AQ, but pretty close enough. Executions at dawn were part of the curriculum, public flogging weekends and Bank Holidays included, Hung, drawn and quartered by permission only from the school board ( though usually ignored anyway and carried out in the church loft) Tooth, toe nail and minor limb extraction Third form only. This caused a riot when I was there because First and Second form felt neglected. We did at one time have an appeal system which was replaced with a big rubber stamp that left a large, red impression on your forehead that spelt out - "Giltee ! " exclamation mark included - because nobody, English teacher included, knew how to spell  it properly and whether you were guilty or not.

 

So, yes. Typical school, typical of the times - you know, barbed wire boundaries. Ropes, chains, shackles, provided at extra cost. Parents to approve and sign all executions and, for a moderate fee, allowed to take part - pull levers, work the cranks etc - and , all in all, have a jolly good time while they were at it.

 

Allan. Ex director of  school escape committee. 

[glo41f]

I am presently in Germany staying with family. The hobby here seems to be in good order with a lot of local model shops and a lot of interest. There does not seem to be too many kits around and those that are are very highly priced. The RTR is well detailed and runs well but again is expensive. Young folk seem to be interested too. So why are we all pessimistic? I have several children all grown up who were nurtured with model railways and not one of them is interested in getting involved in the hobby. I also feel the day of the loco kit is numbered as the ability to make a decent fist of their construction which , as has been mentioned here, is all down to confidence on the part of the constructor.

 

Gents let us enjoy it while we can!

 

Good to see you at Southwold  Tony. It was as you say a high quality show with some stunning stuff on display.

 

Martin Long

[t-b-g]

It is easy to talk about the hobby being in decline but when I look at an exhibition diary there are more entries than ever. This is not necessarily a good thing as there are not enough good quality layouts and traders to fill them all and the quality has, in my view, suffered.

 

But it would seem that this aspect of the hobby is still growing.

 

The RTR scene is more buoyant than ever. Superb quality models with new releases creating many pages of reviews in the magazine.

 

The people who are new to the hobby seem to be those in of middle age and over, looking for a hobby for retirement.

 

We also have more magazines than we did in the past although again, they seem to struggle to find enough material to fill them with much that I find inspirational.

 

People have been forecasting the demise of the hobby ever since I can remember.

 

The one area that does seem to be declining is in kit building, with new RTR items seeming to outnumber kits by a significant factor. There is little point in somebody spending many hours and much up front finance producing a kit that a tiny number of people might build into something nearly as detailed as the latest RTR.

 

Perhaps it is leading to a hobby where many people have the same locos and stock but for a home layout, that matters little. The lack of individuality only stands out at exhibitions and even then is only of any significance to a tiny number of people like me who prefer to see things that people have built rather than bought. At a show, I bet less than 10% are concerned about such things.

 

So we may reach a time when the average age of people in the hobby means that a decline sets in but I am not sure we are there just yet.

[coachmann]

A lack of model shops compared with years ago is not a sign of a declining hobby. It is to do with changed shopping habits, business rates and 'retirements', which were going on long before the internet. 

 

(Response to something earlier).

Edited August 10, 2017 by coachmann

[allan downes]

With regard to the perception of a decline in the hobby (or otherwise), I think there's no doubt that there's been a complete decline in an interest in today's real railways among the young. Two professional railwaymen visited on Tuesday (they both fizz past my house every day at the controls of a Class 91 or HST) and they state that along the length of the ECML there are no young trainspotters to be seen. There are still trainspotters (particularly at Doncaster) but they're still the ones who were trainspotters 40-50-60 years ago! 

 

I've mentioned this before, but the school I taught at for most of my career in Wolverhampton was adjacent to the Wolverhampton-Shrewsbury line. When I moved there, in 1976, many of the boys would spend their lunchtimes adjacent to the fence, 'copping' the contemporary diesel classes which went by. When I left the school in 1992, there was none. I used to organise shed visits at weekends for those who were interested (the school had a mini bus), and the lads would always catch my attention by telling me what they'd seen on their trainspotting escapades at weekends or in the holidays. Can you imagine that happening in any school today?

 

It's not axiomatic that every railway enthusiast becomes a railway modeller, but every modeller I know is (or has been) interested in real railways (I don't mean preserved ones, though are they the potential lifeline?). Thus, if one counts the years forward, then will there be anyone interested in model railways, other than it being an interest in its own right - not something generated by the real thing?  

 

That's very interesting, Tony.

 

Strangely enough, I was more of a bus spotter than I was a trainspotter ( something that might explain why I was always on the wrong bus going in the wrong direction and once, to my parents delight, even went missing for a year )

 

With the main line to the North just half a mile's walk up the road or three days on the wrong bus, was Mill Hill Station and an absolute trainspotters paradise. Better still, the entrance to Borehamwood Tunnel, a perfect place to get flattened by a 60 ton loco or even murdered ( oh yes, this was a popular pastime around and in  Borehamwods at the time and, well according to my parents, it was a meeting place for murderers where not only would they discuss the latest techniques for bumping off kids, but where best to bury them once they had )  

 

So obviously, the only real reason that I am still alive and able to fill your thread with utter nonsense (  apart from Goering's pilots habitually missing our house every night but hitting everyone else's ) is that I became a bus spotter outside the Edgeware Bus Depot and not a trainspotter at Borehamwood tunnel.

 

Allan. 

[The Stationmaster]

Class 50s - Sorry I can't say anything about the trains (Probably Bristol or WSM and most likely so in the case of 1B70) but  can at least correct the location of 1B70 which is at Didcot on the Down Main Line and the picture was probably taken from the Down Main platform.  Quite why - gasholders in the background, but in the wrong place, apart- someone decided it was Reading is a little beyond me to be honest as the signal number alone is a dead giveaway for those of us who know

[Barry O]

Many moons ago Alistair Wright ran the kit/model review section of the HMRS. A set of easy to follow guidelines were available for anyone wanting to undertake a review. These had a sliding scale of marks.

 

These covered ease of kit build, instructions etc. For RTR it included back to back measurements, accuracy against known drawings etc.

Note that the ease of build did cover how you had to build it - glue/solder- multiple (but the degree of complexity of soldering and/or folding is always going to be difficult to judge. Something easy for one person could be very difficult for others.)

 

When you completed review you posted it to the supplier for review prior to it being published.

 

Sounds easy? Yes but finding time to do a review added a lot of time to building the item. (RTR was a lot easier if you had a suitable drawing or two and some photographs)

 

Unfortunately I have no longer got a copy of the guidelines ..perhaps a fellow HMRS member may have a copy. 

 

Baz

[Atso]

Better still, the entrance to Borehamwood Tunnel, a perfect place to get flattened by a 60 ton loco or even murdered ( oh yes, this was a popular pastime around and in  Borehamwods at the time and, well according to my parents, it was a meeting place for murderers where not only would they discuss the latest techniques for bumping off kids, but where best to bury them once they had )  

 

I worked in Borehamwood in my first ever job as a manager (Bowling Alley) from 2000 to 2002 and have to say that it still seemed much as you described it. That was my second job, the first being at Alexandra Palace Ice Rink as a sixteen year old back in 1997. Back then 'Ally Pally' was an eye opening education for this sheltered middle class boy from St. Albans and during those three years I thought I'd seen everything possible. However, Borehamwood proved me wrong and furthered my 'education' which involved having to work with the local constabulary on more occasions than I'd care to remember - having to go cap in hand to the finance director and explain why we needed to completely refurnish the bar and replace every pool cue (we had seven pool tables) after one particularly excitable Christmas eve is in hindsight, remembering the look of horror on his face, one of the more amusing things I had to do (although the night itself wasn't!).

Edited August 10, 2017 by Atso